MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[BigRedGrad]

No need to shout!!
I agree........let me count to ten!!



All better now!!
Thank you for your concern regarding my health. 

[old scot]

Congratulations to the Fighting Scots cagers for a great season and a NCAC regular season championship.
This brings me to the second part of my post. Why is a 4-12 team even in the playoffs? Is the NCAC that desperate for cash they dilute their championship to that extent? I know records vary from year to year but, this is a joke. No disrespect to Oberlin but 4 conference wins and 5 overall is no playoff team. I know anything can happen on game day. Oberlin has everything to gain. Wooster can only accrue injuries that could limit their post season run.

[smedindy]

Why is Oberlin in the playoffs? Because it's the right and honorable thing to do. If you are going to have conference tourneys, then you actually should invite everyone.

I would rather see the autobid go to the regular season champ, but that's not how it is.

If you want to protect the #1 and #2 seeds then you bye them into the semis like some D-1 conferences have done in an effort to 'protect' the #1 seed from getting upset.

Personally, I'd like to see what conferences like the Big 10/11 do. Invite 'em all at one site and just let 'em play! Yes the 7-10 and 8-9 games may not be excitement plus, but it's another chance to play ball.

[smedindy]

What you describe is exactly what happened.  Denison's scrubs and Wabash's scrubs had both been in the game for a minute or two, with everyone playing hard.  Then Wabash inbounded the ball with a nine-point lead and just a few seconds on the clock.  The Denison players clearly were expecting a handshake drill, and were acknowledging the end of their season...and of four careers.  The fans were (mostly) on their feet, saluting the seniors, who were gathered at the end of the bench.  And the Wabash kid shot the ball.  "Classless" is perhaps too strong a word, but it was definitely not something he should have done. 

Did the Wabash player realize this? That's the question. He may have been excited about varsity time that he didn't notice.

Anyway, it's a relatively minor event. Denison even covered the spread WITH the basket, so says my source "Greasy Palms".

[old scot]

What is so honorable about inviting a 5 win team to the post season? Lets forget about the regular season and invite everyone to the tournament. In this day and age of political correctness , that would be the honorable thing to do.
What ever happened to only the fittest survive? In a 10 team conference the top 4 should be the maximum number of playoff representatives.

[woosterbooster]

Wooster has been lucky enough to be on the top side of many games that have been decided well before the final gun.  No matter who's on the court during the last few minutes, for either team, the play is still hard and competitive as it should be.  But when the Scots have the ball and the shot clock has been turned off, they don't shoot, period, no matter who the player is.  That's class, and the way class teams do it.  To defend a player who breaks that unwritten rule, just because he's from your school, is as cheap as the player's shot.  

[smedindy]

What is so honorable about inviting a 5 win team to the post season? Lets forget about the regular season and invite everyone to the tournament. In this day and age of political correctness , that would be the honorable thing to do.
What ever happened to only the fittest survive? In a 10 team conference the top 4 should be the maximum number of playoff representatives.

Well, as I said, the BEST thing is to not have a conference tourney.

Watching many conference tournaments in D-1, though, leads me to think that you need to invite everyone because that one last chance for a team provides a lot of drama.

It's only because the NCAC is quite top heavy that it seems like a weird thing.

[smedindy]

Wooster has been lucky enough to be on the top side of many games that have been decided well before the final gun.  No matter who's on the court during the last few minutes, for either team, the play is still hard and competitive as it should be.  But when the Scots have the ball and the shot clock has been turned off, they don't shoot, period, no matter who the player is.  That's class, and the way class teams do it.  To defend a player who breaks that unwritten rule, just because he's from your school, is as cheap as the player's shot. 

DC has told me privately his side of it, and I see it now. Based on the initial post, it seemed a way over the top reaction to a trifle.

But if the other team is playing with the shot clock off, you play the game. I cannot deny a scrub a chance to play and score even with 1 second to go if the other team is also giving effort to stop him.

[David Collinge]

Privately, only because it seems time to move on.

It seems that we're all in basic agreement that scrubs should play hard, but that the offense should dribble the clock out when the defense concedes the last few seconds.

BigRedGrad and I were the only posters in attendance (I suppose), and we are both adamant that the shot by Mark Turpin was inappropriate.  I think that all of you, regardless of school affiliation, would agree if you had been there. 

I'd rather we moved on to the tournament and all-conference discussions.

[David Collinge]

Regarding Oberlin being in the tournament:

If you want to protect the #1 and #2 seeds then you bye them into the semis like some D-1 conferences have done in an effort to 'protect' the #1 seed from getting upset.

Not just D-1.  I've made a spreadsheet of conference tournament brackets to help me try to keep the Top 25 "How They Fared" straight this week, and there's all varieties of D3 tournaments.  Some examples:
* MIAA women, a 9-team league: all 9 get in, with a "play-in" game between #8 and #9
* WIAC men and women, a 9-team league: an 8-team tournament, missing only the 9th-place team (same as NCAC women, which Wooster got left out of on a tiebreaker)
* Lots of 8-team leagues with 8-team tournaments, e.g. MIAA men, SCAC men & women
* MIAC, which has 11 men's and 12 women's teams: 6-team tourney, with byes for the 1 and 2 seeds
* Centennial men, a 10-team league: 5 teams get in; #4 plays #5 with the winner playing #1
* Lots of 4-team tournaments, like the SCIAC, CCIW, and both halves of the MAC (Freedom/Commonwealth)
* NWC, a 9-team league: just the top three get in, with #2 playing #3 and the winner playing #1

[imderekpoe]

Well, as I said, the BEST thing is to not have a conference tourney.

Watching many conference tournaments in D-1, though, leads me to think that you need to invite everyone because that one last chance for a team provides a lot of drama.

It's only because the NCAC is quite top heavy that it seems like a weird thing.

I'd rather seem them do away with the tourney as well, but that's not likely to happen any time soon.  If they insist on the tournament I would like to see all the teams get to participate.  I guess you'd give the top 6 byes, and have the bottom 4 play the first round? 

Just FYI, I took a look at the tournaments back to 1999 that are posted on the NCAC site.  The only times that a #5-8 seed won a first round game were the last 3 years.  Each of those were #5 beating #4, then getting beaten by Wooster in the semi's.  I wouldn't be too surprised to see a couple more upsets this year...

[smedindy]

I think a lot of the D-3 tourneys are smaller to save costs and travel. And for conferences over 8 teams, it makes sense to limit it a bit. 12 team tourneys get a bit obtuse (but that doesn't stop the Sun Belt or Southern Conference).

But why not have an NCAC blowout in Dayton or Columbus?

Day 1: #5 vs #10, #6 vs. #9, #7 vs. #8
Day 2: #4 vs. winner of 5/10, #3 vs. winner of 6/9, #2 vs. winner of 7/8
Day 3: #1 vs. winner of 4/5/10, 3/6/9 winner vs. 2/7/8
Day 4: World Championship of the NCAC.

That protects #1, gives teams incentives to finish in the top 4, yet allows for a quixotic tourney run by an underdog which would make great copy for us junkies.

[old scot]

Dave, thanks for your insite on other confernce tournaments. The real question is why should the regular season be only to establish your seeding in the conference tourney when 80%-90% are invited? The level of competion is so askewed from the top 5 teams in the NCAC that a #1 vs #8 is a meaningless game.
D1 conference tourneys are at one site on one long weekend and generate large sums of cash for their conference. DIII tourneys are at the site of the higher ranked school and are nothing more than a extra regular season game until the final 4 are established,

[wally_wabash]

Apparently summer has come early once again at WABASH...........NO CLASS!!

With NO time left and the game OVER some kid named Mark Turpin decides he should shoot and add to his stats.  Just HOLD THE BALL.  WHAT WAS THAT??  OH I see, YOUR ONLY BASKET OF THE YEAR!!!! NICE SHOT.

That was soooooooooooooooooo poor I couldn't believe it.  Nice job coach!!! 

Somebody needs a nap. 

Matt Turpin, who has played all of 10 minutes this season and has scored all of three points this season has hardly committed a crime against humanity here.  It's one thing to say "I wouldn't have done that", it's another to put the curse of classlessness on an entire program because of it.  This is a non-issue. 

I am surprised yourfans didn't start their chant of "OHIO SUCKS" after you made your basket.

We're on the same page here.  I'll go on the record as saying that this is something that could probably stop.  Or at the very least it should be saved until Wabash is actually better than all of the Buckeye staters that they play against...but probably it just needs to be shelved.  They can come up with something better than this to chant. 

[smedindy]

D1 conference tourneys are at one site on one long weekend and generate large sums of cash for their conference.

Not for a lot of them. The big ones, yes, but the mid-majors and below struggle at times. Many are at the site of the #1 team. Some, like the MEAC championship, are at a neutral site and barely draw enough to pay the rent, or so it seems. Just how many people are going to show up at a Southern Utah - Missouri KC game on a neutral floor?