MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[earlhamalum]

Earlham-  90
Depauw-  87   in O.T.

M. Jewett-         22 Pts, 7-11, 9 Rebounds
LaRon Henry-    18 Pts, 5-13
Brandon MIller-  18 Pts, 4-10, 5 Rebounds

3-4 of the other guys really played well for the quakers.  I think that is key for the quakers to have a good run at the NCAC. 

LaRon Henry had a jump shot at the BUZZER at the end of Regulation that would of given Earlham the win but one ref waived it off... the one thing that surprises me the most is that one ref made the call that it was NO GOOD. (I'm not saying it wasn't, it was truely to close to call)  There are 3 refs on the floor, i'm just curious why they wouldn't even talk it over to make sure they all agreed... but the other two just sat back and did nothing. 

On the other note Earlham could of let that be a let down, but they didn't and they came out ready to play scoring 20 Points in O.T.

[billy_pilgrim]

Great game from Earlham yesterday....it was a very well-played game on both sides. I think that sometimes in those situations, playing in an exciting environment, the game can be ragged to start. But, both teams seemed to adapt quickly to the Fieldhouse.

The teams stayed close throughout regulation, I don't think either team ever led by more than 6 points.

Aside from the 3 that Earlhamalum mentioned having nice games, Neil Collins played well in extended playing time. He could be that bit of backcourt depth that Earlham has been lacking. Freshman Tristian Gregory also played well.

As for the Henry shot at the buzzer...it was really close. The official on the far side made the call right away. That official did have the best view of the scorer's table light that is used in NBA arenas; however I don't believe that he could have seen through a gaggle of traffic to see if LaRon did in fact get the shot off. As Earlhamalum said, there was no conference at all.

Now, I don't know how many here have seen the second Bad News Bears film (I'm showing my extensive film knowledge here  ). But, in that movie, the Bears and some Texas team are tied after a couple innings in the Astrodome. However, the officials aren't going to let them finish....leading to chants of "Let them Play". Well, it was almost the same situation yesterday. Because the NBA mandates that the floor be cleared 2 hours before gametime, there was a conference with Conseco Fieldhouse officials to decide how the overtime would be played, if at all.

Had the game gone a second OT, word was that it would have been sudden death. I kid you not.

Luckily, Earlham was able to hold on with hot shooting and one big Markous Jewett block at the buzzer.

[smedindy]

How many people were there?

As for the refs, if the guy with the best view makes a definitive call, I don't think there would be a need for a conference. He didn't ask for help, and the other refs obviously agreed with the call - so no need to get together.

Wow! Sudden death hoops! I would have loved the NCAA and the NBA slug it out.

"Hey, you can't arbitrarily shorten one of our games. Only WE can arbitrarily make decisions about our games!"
"Can too!"
"Can not!"
"Can too"
"How big are YOUR TV ratings?"

[earlhamalum]

I did not find anything that had the offical attendence on it.  Billypilgram and I would say 750-1000.  That is including Pacers Fred Jones and Rookie Danny Granger who was there to watch the last 4:00 minutes of regulations and a 37 point overtime.     

[DenisonFan]

Hey Smed,
Take a look at the box score of that Earlham vs DePauw game!!

What a shock......eight guys on both teams battle it out to the finish.

Why the heck didn't either coach play everyone there.  Heck, in that setting, let em play.

Or did each coach want to win!!!  I think they were going for the win.

So don't give me any more of this eleven man rotation crap.  It does not work.

Also, having Hodgkinson and Hern off the floor at the same time for extended periods is a formula for losing.  And OH!!  Denison is.  Show me ANY team in ANY conference that will pull it's starters and play 4 freshman and a sophomore..........did Ghiloni actually think they could match up against the starters from Capital.  Sad if he really thought they could.

Merry Christmas

[billy_pilgrim]

How many people were there?

I just read the Richmond Pal-Item story which said more than 1,500 were at the game.

Fans were allowed to only sit in the lower level of the side opposite the bench. Fans were also only able to exit through the gate at section 1...which involved trekking up about 40 rows of seats. Also, none of the video replay boards were working.......would have been interesting to see if D-3 officials would have gone to the tape for Henry's last shot had that been operating.

Danny Granger did watch most of the second half and then played a great game last night against the Clippers...................D-3 basketball: Inspiring to all.

[smedindy]

DFan -

When you lose 91-57, you can't blame it on any rotation, or any time that a player is sitting out.

Oh, and I looked at the box score. It seemed both Hern and Hodgkinson were in the game when the score went from 13-9 to 30-13. At that point, the rout, she was on.

Like I have said, I have seen big rotations that DO work, and work well.

[DenisonFan]

Smed:
Your killing me my man.

At 13-9 Ghiloni put in Shea, Eberst, Kranze, McMaman and Gognat.  I count FIVE.  Where is Hodgkinson and Hern.  Hodgkinson returns when it is 18-9 and Hern when it is 23-11. 

I was at the game.  Were you??  And the only reason we got blown out is because Ghiloni's second group went 4-16!!  Shooting 25% isn't going to win very many games. Ghiloni insists on playing guys that one, can't score and 2 don't look to score.

If you are so interested in the box score look at the points from that spectacular second team.  If you play 11 guys you are saying that the second group is as good as the first.  Come on Smed.  Even you know better than that.

Or maybe I missed something.  Was he not subbing 5 at a time in the second half??

Hodgikinson has 13 in the first half..........does he get the ball back??? NO   Hern has a big ZERO!!   But I am sure the this rotation thing will do great against Earlham, OW, Hiram and any one we have to face.

Please don't make comments if you were not even there.  Trust me when I tell you the subbing at 5 for 5 didn't really work out to well.

If Ghiloni was trying to find out who can play and who can't.  He has had 10 games to find out.  And believe me, he does not have 11 guys.   He actually doesn't have 8.

Plus, who knows who else will guit.  Each week they need a new roster.

Nothing says good program like having all your upper classmen guit. 

Looking around the NCAC I don't see any other program losing half their upperclassmen before Christmas.   I guess they were just having too much fun.

Unless you attend the game, you really don't know how bad it is.

[David Collinge]

There have been games played thoughout basketball history where the cosches have thought it was good to replace players on the floor with other players from the bench.  Sometimes those bench players were fresher, sometimes they matched up well with the other team's players, sometimes the coach wanted to talk to a player without calling a timeout, and other times the coach wanted the bench players to gain experience that would be valuable to the team as well as the players in the long run.  And there were even times when these substitutions were bad ideas.

But I wasn't at all of those games, so I guess I'm not permitted to comment.

[DenisonFan]

Dave,

But I wasn't at all of those games, so I guess I'm not permitted to comment.

You certainly can comment.  What I  do not appreciate is when someone who was not at the game tries to make a point contrary to what actually happened. 

I am not commenting on games I was not at.  I make my statements from a fan in the stands.  Simple as that.

[earlhamalum]

DenisonFAN-  What hope does you're team have for the rest of the season... Do you totally feel like this team is going to lose the rest of their games because of the coach or lack of quality players?  I just want to see the BIGRED play to see if i agree with you guys.. LOL

[smedindy]

Well, when they did put those guys back in it still went to hell in a handbasket. 30-13, my man, and many coaches are looking to get a lot of people minutes. After the first half it probably was a good idea to give people a chance.

And, you fail to recognize, at all, in any of your carping and moaning, how he limited his bench against Wabash, a WINNABLE NCAC game. No, you just carp and moan about a non-conference game where they were getting blown away even with the big guns.

Of course, can you see you view is sufficiently tainted now that you won't recognize anything good he is doing.

Yes, I've seen 11, 12, 13 man rotations, and not in a Grinnell system. It's about keeping people fresh, giving the opposition new and unique looks, matching up to the other players substitutions, a myriad of things.

Oh, and Wabash has had its share of defections and transfers, even during the season, over the past few years. How many juniors are on Wabash's roster? One, that's right. Only one. The rest have quit. Four players who started at some point in the last two years aren't playing anymore at Wabash, for whatever reason.

It's not just a Denison issue, it's part and parcel for the course.

[DenisonFan]

Earlhamalum,
I know you are an X player and from what I hear a pretty good one.  I respect your opinion and your thoughts.  One 1/25 you tell me if I am full of S##T.  I will wait for your comments.

Smed:
I am obviously going no where with you.  You were not there, so say whatever you want.

The fact is....and please disagree, you do not enter a gun fight with knives.

Wabash returned 7 key players off of last years team.  Who guit??  The guy who got the third most minutes on the team?  NO   Tony Julian guit.  WHY?  You seem to know all the answers.   Tell me why guys that have busted their butts for two years for a coach.  Finally have a winning season and finish 3rd in the conference quit???  Why would you do that??

Let's enjoy the holiday and hope 2006 brings some better times for the Big Red.   Because they can use all the help they can get.

[smedindy]

Kids quit all the time. Like I said, we had a half-time starter quit at midseason last year, because he said basketball wasn't fun anymore. We had a part-time starter quit two years ago at midseason and he's still a student at the college. We had a couple of kids who started as freshmen and played as sophomores not return this year.

I can't get into his head. For some kids, they realize that playing basketball and being a full time student is too much for them to handle, and they want to step back and enjoy just being a student.

[woosterbooster]

Steve Moore at Wooster, this season, only plays nine guys before garbage time, and that last guy, freshman Marty Bidwell, is only averaging 10.3 minutes per game. That number would be lower, perhaps down to 4 or 5 minutes, had not Wooster already played two system teams, Emory & Henry and Westminster.  Moore is in essence really only going with eight, and Wooster plays at a pretty quick pace.

The 10th man, Jamie Yoder, is actually a pretty good guard, but four better guards are already in the rotation.  After Yoder, the talent level drops markedly.  If Moore were to try to run even one or two of those guys into the fray when the game was still on the line, he'd be asking for big-time trouble.

This is pretty much how he's done it for years, basically a seven-nine man rotation.  It seems he'd prefer eight, but if that eighth man is too much of a drop-off, then he sits.  Same for the ninth man if he has only eight good players.  Plus, the minutes aren't spread evenly among those in the rotation, the top two or three guys get more.  No one comes out just to give another player a chance, they come out only for a blow or due to foul problems. This is competitive basketball, and he's playing to win.

And, to me, this seems to be pretty much the norm in college ball. I can think of only a few reasons why a coach might go deeper into his bench on a regular basis.  One, if he's running an ultra run-and-gun system.  Two, if the talent level among his players between 5-10 is so even that it makes little difference who's on the court (even then, I don't buy this, as too many bodies, too many changes, and too many combinations just can't help but hurt).  And, three, if it's getting late in the season, his team is going nowhere, and he wants to get a real look at his kids, to see what he has for next year.

I haven't seen Denison, but will when they come to Wooster, because now my interest is peaked.  I can't imagine that playing so many players, that making wholesale five for five changes, is helping them in any way.

Jack