MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[David Collinge]

I agree with DenisonFan that it can be challenging to deal with "men that have an opinion and question what he is doing."  It's even harder to do that and coach their sons at the same time.

As far as I am concerned, Coach Ghiloni doesn't have a "side of the story" and has no need to "defend himself."  It's the way debate seems to work in this country nowadays: if you don't like what someone is doing, throw out an ad hominem attack and keep your adversary on the defensive.  In my day we called this the "when did you stop beating your wife" approach.  Until conclusive proof is demonstrated to the contrary, I believe that Coach Ghiloni and his staff are acting in the best interests of the players, the team, and the university. 

[smedindy]

Why should the coach defend himself? Remember the state of Denison hoops before he arrived. It was pretty dismal.

[Li'l Giant]

and most importantly, why should have to explain himself to anyone on a website, who is posting anonymously, and clearly has some sort of fixation?

[pupfan]

David, you meant Hiram was "outmanned" against Ashland, as opposed to "outclassed", right?  After all, all of the NCAC schools are elite academic insitutions and are not "outclassed." Is was only a four point deficit at the half.

The bad news:
Ashland 77, Hiram 57
Actually not so bad, if you stop and think how hopelessly Hiram is outclassed against a -- any -- D2 team.

The good news:
Wittenberg 60, Otterbein 43
It sound like Witt was in solid control throughout.  The box score isn't up yet, but I know that Borchers led the Tigers with 18 points, 8 rebounds.  Ott was held to just 16 first-half points in what sounds like another dominating performance by the Witt 'D'.

Ryan Maurer's press release

[smedindy]

Hey! A Terrier sighting! Welcome aboard - don't be shy. How does Hiram look this year compared to other years??

[David Collinge]

I certainly have a higher regard for Hiram than Ashland as an instution of higher education.  Much, MUCH higher.  My use of the term "outclassed" was not meant to suggest anything other than the relative prowess of Hiram's basketball program when compared to D2 (i.e., semi-pro) outfits.  Let's face it; Hiram doesn't fare well even against other D3 schools, much less against players on scholarship.  I'm glad the Terriers were able to compete with the Eagles, and I'd have been thrilled if they had won.   

I hope everyone is enjoying a wondderful holiday weekend (even if you don't celebrate a holiday this weekend.)  Of course, what's not to enjoy, when it's brilliantly sunny and in the mid-70s?  Oh, sorry, I guess it's not like that everywhere. 

[earlhamalum]

MERRY                                        CHRISTMAS                                                                                        EVERYONE![/size][/b]

[ScotsFan]

Just wanted to wish everyone in here

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!![/b]

HO HO HO!!![/b]

[Li'l Giant]

DC,

Yeah, it was in the 70s and sunny here in South Texas today and that's pretty typical for this time of year. Which is why I always thought "White Christmas" was some sort of KKK anthem. 

[Pat Coleman]

I LOVE ALL THE NEW FACES AND YOUR COMMENTS!!

There's no need to shout. We can all hear you just fine.

[ScotsFan]

I hope everyone is enjoying a wondderful holiday weekend (even if you don't celebrate a holiday this weekend.)  Of course, what's not to enjoy, when it's brilliantly sunny and in the mid-70s?  Oh, sorry, I guess it's not like that everywhere. 

Now now, there's no need to gloat...

Actually, today was quite pleasant here in Ohio, given the frigid temps we've been dealing with over the last month or so.  It actually broke 50 according to my car's thermometer!   I was almost tempted to hit the COW golf course, but it was still pretty sloshy.  I guess I'll take what I can get here in balmy Ohio???

[DenisonFan]

DC:
I agree that Ghiloni doesn't have to defend himself.  I was kidding.  Obviously this is not the forum he should even worry about.  This is strickly for the frustrated fans.  I also agree that he thinks he is doing what is right.  No coach intentionally tanks the program.  I just question some of his choices.  Pure and simple.

Smed:
The program sucked because they had NO players.  Ghiloni did not bring Hodgkinson, Izzo or Hern to this program.  They came on their own.  So PLEASE don't give me "he turned it around crap".  He had nothing to do with it.   When Hodgkinson, Hern and Izzo leave....then let's see how good they are!!!!

I have seen the future when he plays his all freshman and sophomore line-up and if that is an indication of what is to come it is going to be hard to watch.

[smedindy]

Hmmm...so two juniors came despite of the coach, not because of the coach and a senior decided to come anyway even after there was a coaching change

I know D-3 is different recruiting than D-1 but you still would think that a basketball player is going to be influenced some by the coach and the program in general. You just don't say "I love the school but I'll be miserable playing here" and pack your bags if you are serious about playing hoops (or any sport).

The three years before he arrived, Denison won just 16 games total. Last year they won 13 and it can be said that all but the senior class was his. "Turned it around", "rebuilding" - say what you will.

[David Collinge]

Well, I recall that Hodgkinson had an older brother that played for the Big Red.  So perhaps the recruiting credit should go to whoever recruited the older brother.  But otherwise point taken.

Here's what I don't get: according to DF, the Big Three of Hern, Hodgkinson, and Izzo don't play enough and should be left in for more minutes.  But the program's success (such as it is) is evidently due to these guys (and not the coaches), and the program is going to crash and burn when they leave. ("Ghiloni did not bring Hodgkinson, Izzo or Hern to this program.  They came on their own.  So PLEASE don't give me "he turned it around crap".  He had nothing to do with it.   When Hodgkinson, Hern and Izzo leave....then let's see how good they are!!!!")  But if you are concerned about the future of the program, wouldn't you want to play the underclassmen?  Next year in the preseason we'll be talking about how good Denison looks because they return 4 starters and 10 lettermen who each averaged at least 9 minutes per game, and only two of these guys will be seniors.  That doesn't sound too bad to me!

The coaches are playing 11 guys on a regular basis.  You might rationalize that it's not good for this year's team success, or that it's not good for the future of the program, but not both.  It sounds a little like the old Woody Allen joke where two women complain about the food service at a Catskills resort: "The food here is awful." "Yes, and such small portions!"

(*Aside*: Hodgkinson and Hern lead the team in minutes at 28.5 and 28.1 minutes each, which basically means they sit 5-6 minutes per half, disregarding time on the bench at the end of blowouts.  Izzo averages 22 mins, about the same as Krantz and Julian.  By way of comparison, Port and Witucky average 30 and 28 mins for Wooster, and Russ, Borchers, and Brady are all in the 26-27 mpg range for Wittenberg.)

[DenisonFan]

Hodgkinson did have an older brother that graduated in 03" Ghiloni's first year.
Hern was a freshman in 03 and he liked it so well he left to go to Ohio State his sophomore year.  This is only his third year in the program.

How Izzo got there I have no idea.  Does Ghiloni and his band of  assistant coaches do a lot of recruiting in Chicago.  Maybe.  Let's check the roster???  NONE besides Hodgkinson and Izzo. So in the last two years he has gotten not one player from Illinois.  So we know how Hodgkinson got there.  Why Izzo showed up is a mystery.   So Ghiloni go lucky.  It happens.  But I don't think he had anything to do with getting anyone one of those three.

As far as minutes played.  It is not about that at all.  It's about the rotation.  He can not take and sit Hodgkinson and Hern down at the same time.  Nobody plays 40 minutes a game unless you go to Oberlin.  Other than that everyone needs a breather.   It is just how you use those sub minutes that is key.  And I think Ghiloni has done a poor job of it.

You don't sit your two best shooters down at the same time.  Stats don't lie.  Hodgkinson and Hern are your best option to score.   Find a rotation that gives them a rest and still keeps at least one on the floor.  I think even I could work up such a rotation.

Court management.  It seems when you watch Denison play Ghiloni is always looking up and down the bench.  It's like he gets confused.  Maybe some of his many assistants can help him out.

Time will tell.