MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[kiltedbryan]

Fantastic 50,

You are right that the atmosphere wasn't what it usually is. The two main reasons, I think, are that the teams aren't as good this year, and Wittenberg had no students there. Where a lot of the energy comes from is the banter back and forth between the two student sections. Also, while Wooster never pulled away, the outcome didn't really ever feel in doubt in the second half. That may have led to the energy level being down somewhat.

I kinda want to disagree with this.  I actually think that the student "banter" is, at best, marginally helpful to the atmosphere of these games (it's loud, at least), and at worst, vulgar and consistently disrespectful, which takes away from an otherwise excellent atmosphere.  I didn't see tonight's game, but I have plenty of recent experience watching this rivalry both in Wooster and in Springfield, and in both places I consistently feel that the students' "contributions" help ruin/distract people from what is generally an otherwise excellent basketball game.

I prefer to think that the great crowd atmosphere has been a product of the national-calibre of recent Wooster and Wittenberg teams, which has drawn huge crowds.  Witt had a mini-tradition of beating Wooster immediately after Wooster reached a #1 ranking for a few years, for example.

Plus, rare are the games in this rivalry that are decided before more than 39 minutes of play has elapsed.  Even tonight, Wittenberg found a way back into the game late.  What is better at driving fan intensity than the feeling that no lead is truly safe until the final buzzer sounds?

[JohnDaly]

seinfeld,

I have no idea who you think I am, but you are sadly mistaken. Yes I did change my name, but only because I had it TheDoggies because I am a browns fans, not because I support Hiram,Thus the reason why I changed it, I did not want that mistake to be made by other members, but hey I suppose you are entitled to your own opinion (say hi to george and kramer for me). To go back to the incident in 2006, I have only heard about this. I have never seen it so I have no basis to ever comment on that incident.

However, I did see the incident tonight, and I agree with the Wittenberg player. Obviously there is no need for a bucket at that time for Wooster to win. Up 9 with what about 5 seconds and the a STARTER is trying to run up the score? Come on now, thats high school JV stuff. I would expect a senior to have some class and not do that. But its just another thing to intensify the rivalry I guess.

[ScotsFan]

Here is my reaction to the foul and the end of the game and the post game handshake. You can probably go either way as to whether Bidwell should have pulled up or gone in for the slam at the end of the game. My guess is that a majority of players would have gone in for the score in that situation. Given the intensity of the rivalry, and considering the game was still in doubt one possession before this, I don't think it was over the top for Bidwell to try to score. I also think Nowicki's foul wasn't out of line either. He actually got a lot of the ball, but certainly got a lot of body as well. I think that given Bidwell was trying to dunk when the game was over, it was fair for Nowicki to commit the hard foul. The key to this sequence is that Nowicki didn't come from behind or throw him down or anything that would have caused an injury (which was different about the foul on Port three years ago). And while there was a little bit of talking after the play, it wasn't anything that if it happened at the Div. I level, you would even think twice about.

I wasn't in attendance at the game, but I did catch the replay and I can understand the foul by Nowicki.  I didn't see it as over the top as he didn't even take Bidwell down.  What I didn't like was how Nowicki got in Bidwell's face after the foul as if he was trying to goad Bidwell into a reaction.  And Nowicki wasn't the only Witt player to run his mouth as there was another Witt player jawing at Bidwell as he was walking away from Nowicki. 

I can see where Bidwell should not have gone up for that dunk as the game was essentially over and the PC thing to do would have been to just hold the ball and let the time expire.  But, this is a heated rivalry and with emotions running high, I can see where Bidwell allowed his emotions to take over when he saw a breakaway dunk opportunity. 

And as a result, Nowicki decided to stop Bidwell's dunk attempt with a hard foul.  And like I said, I had no problem with the foul.  It was what Nowicki did after the foul that I had a problem with.  And I was real proud of Bidwell for just walking away in that situation!

What I'm puzzled about is the reaction of Bill Brown. While I was on the opposite side of the floor (so obviously I couldn't hear anything), I watched the entire thing unfold. Moments after Steve Moore gets his 500th career win at Wooster, he has Bill Brown lecturing him at midcourt, holding up the line. I didn't see Steve say anything, it was all Brown. I don't think it was necessary for Brown to lecture Steve about that play, but that may be up for argument. But where Brown crossed the line in my opinion is that he stopped and was apparently trying to lecture Bidwell. There is no reason for Brown to talk to a Wooster player like that. The only circumstance I could see this being appropriate is if Bidwell had somehow committed a cheap foul that injured one of his players. That obviously didn't happen. On top of that, Brown continued to follow Bidwell through the line after Bidwell either said something or just continued to move on.

Brown is not the Dean Smith of Div. III basketball. His players have been known for their questionable antics over the years (BJ Harris comes to mind). His teams have jumped around Wooster's seal at midcourt after wins at Timken many times. They act like they win the national championship when they win a regular season game at Timken. While he may not have any control over the student section, Wittenberg students have left beer bottles on the floor after games, stolen chairs and rugs, so I mean, c'mon. There is nothing more hypocritical, to me, than someone thinking they are in a position to lecture someone else, especially someone that is not a part of your team/organization, when either your conduct or your team's conduct isn't perfect.

If Bill Brown doesn't like what happened, then use it to motivate his team. Don't patronize Steve Moore or Bidwell, a team captain, on their own floor.

I totally agree with you on this Seinfeld.  Who does Bill Brown think he is trying to come off all high and mighty about this whole incident???  Is it a guarantee that if the situation were reversed that one of his players wouldn't have done the same thing???  And as Seinfeld mentioned, it's not as if Brown hasn't had some players with questionable character issues over the years either.  I just don't get where he gets off with his lecturing antics at the end of the game.  To me, all this demonstrates about Bill Brown is that he is not very gracious in defeat...  Maybe Brown is the one that needs the lecture on how to take loss without acting like such a sore loser...     

[ScotsFan]

Turns out after reading the article in the  Wooster Daily Record Bidwell did have a few choice words for Nowicki.  It also appears that the two teams were jawing with each other all the way to their respective locker rooms.  Who said the rivalry would lose steam just because both programs are a bit down by their standards?  8)

I wonder what's in store for the rematch in Springfield next month?

[wooscotsfan]

Here is the link to the Woo-Witt game article in the Springfield News-Sun: http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/college/wittenberg/2009/01/18/sns011809spwitthoops.html

[David Collinge]

The whole thing is a tempest in a teapot. 

Some players would have backed the ball out rather than go for the dunk, but Marty Bidwell is not that type of player.  It was a tough game against a tough opponent who is your biggest rival and has been your biggest source of frustration many times in the past.  After beating them fairly decisively most of the night, suddenly Josh McKee drains a three with a hand in his face, then Kevin Murray, the guy you've shut down all night, hits another, and just like that your big lead is down to 5 and they've got the ball.  You and your team withstand the storm and get back out to a safe 7-point lead and the game is won.  Then with a couple of seconds left you find yourself with the opportunity you've waited your whole college career for, to dunk on your bitterest rival to punctuate a big home victory and give your coach his 500th win at Wooster.  Offhand I can't think of any Woo or Witt player over the years that wouldn't have taken that shot in that situation (remember Isaac Ward?), and it wasn't "cheap" or "dirty" to do so.

Now you're David Nowicki, and you see all of this unfold in front of you.  You're upset and frustrated about how this game got away from you, and even though your team didn't play terribly well, you still had a good chance to win, but a couple of threes went awry and that chance evaporated.  And the game's all but over, and here's the toughest, brashest player on their team going up for an in-your-face dunk.  You're not going to let that happen.  You're not trying to injure him, of course, but if he thinks he's going to dunk on you in this situation, you're going to make sure he pays a price for doing it.  I'd have fouled him, probably pretty hard, and I think most of the rest of you would have, too.  I don't think it was a "dirty" play at all.

This was followed with the amount of woofing and chest thumping you'd expect from such a situation in a rivalry this intense.  The fact that some of it came from Bill Brown was perhaps disappointing, except that it's not out of character for him; he's an emotional guy.  One must understand that this rivalry lives and burns in the hearts of the coaches at least as fiercely as it does with any player or fan.  Bill Brown hates to lose to Wooster, just as Steve Moore hates to lose to Wittenberg.  There's a whole lot of history with these two, and for them, it's not a friendly rivalry.  They're human, too, despite what we'd like to believe. 

In the final analysis it was just an understandable sequence of events in which nobody was hurt and only frayed nerves were irritated a bit.  And we move on to Wednesday's games, and keep the Valentine's Day rematch in the back of our minds.

[wally_wabash]

In sixteen years of watching Wooster play, I can't recall a single incident of a Wooster player taking a cheap, dangerous shot at an opponent. 

I can.  At the end of Wooster's game at Wabash, Marty Bidwell clocked Wabash freshman Derek Bailey with an elbow up around the head area that was, shall I say, less than sporting.  I didn't mention it at the time because it really isn't that important and I'm not in the business of thinking that every hard foul committed on a Little Giant is done with the intent to maim.  The kid took a shot at the end of a very frustrating game and I'm sure in hindsight he'd probably take it back if he could.  When you put super competitive 18-22 year olds on a field or court of competition, sometimes things get a little aggressive, particularly in instances when your team gets embarrassed.  It happens, Booster, and yes even some of your favorite Scots are susceptible to the occasional poor decision. 

[wooscotsfan]

In the final analysis it was just an understandable sequence of events in which nobody was hurt and only frayed nerves were irritated a bit.  And we move on to Wednesday's games, and keep the Valentine's Day rematch in the back of our minds.

Nice post David! k+   You are quite right that both players, Bidwell and Nowicki, did what you would expect in an emotionally charged rivalry game.

Speaking of Wednesday's games , here is the schedule:

OWU at Witt
Hiram at Allegheny
Kenyon at Oberlin
Earlham at Wabash
Wooster at Denison

The best game on the slate is the Bishops playing at the Tigers.  Should be a great game and it will be interesting to see who picks up the win in that matchup.  I would like to see Allegheny give Hiram a game in Meadville but it doesn't look likely after the Gators poor showing against the Lords yesterday.  Kenyon, Wabash and Wooster look like heavy favorites in the other 3 games, IMO.

[woosterbooster]

The big difference is this: Nobody gets hurt, except maybe for their feelings, when a player goes in for an unnecessary dunk at the end of a ballgame.  When somebody rams into that player from behind, there is a serious chance of injury.  And, no, Nowicki had no chance in hell of getting near that basketball.  Bidwell has at least half a foot on him and was well up in the air when Nowicki collided into him.  Bidwell has now taken two hits of this type in successive ballgames, hits that should not be a part of this game.  He was lucky to get away unhurt.  I call it dirty play, and I'll stand by it.  Players that do it, coaches that condone it, and fans that dismiss it are dirty players, unscrupulous coaches, and fans that are way off base in their thinking, in that order.

[David Collinge]

[woosterbooster]

You might consider remembering the beginning of Twelve Angry Men, when Henry Fonda, also, stood alone.

[smedindy]

Of course, it's a conspiracy! Everyone's out to get Wooster (Wabash, Wittenberg, Hiram, Oberlin, Kenyon, Denison, Allegheny, Ohio Wesleyan, Earlham) because they win all of the time (they're not competitive, they're from Ohio, they're not from Ohio) and the other teams are a bunch of thugs (hooligans, rapscallions, ne'er do wells, liberals, conservatives,unrepentant sinners) and get all of the calls.

[countyroad]

The game at Witt should be an interesting one.  Don't think I could talk the little lady into heading out for that game considering it will be on Valentines day.

[ScotsFan]

Of course, it's a conspiracy! Everyone's out to get Wooster (Wabash, Wittenberg, Hiram, Oberlin, Kenyon, Denison, Allegheny, Ohio Wesleyan, Earlham) because they win all of the time (they're not competitive, they're from Ohio, they're not from Ohio) and the other teams are a bunch of thugs (hooligans, rapscallions, ne'er do wells, liberals, conservatives,unrepentant sinners) and get all of the calls.

Over the top much???     

Give me a break...

[smedindy]

Um, that was called satire...kind of an NCAC mad lib. I meant to make it that you can mix and match the elements in the parenthesis.

I probably should have said:

Everyone's out to get ______________(A) because they ________________ (B) and the other teams in the NCAC are a bunch of _______________ (C) that get all of the calls.

A) Wooster, Wabash, Wittenberg, Hiram, Oberlin, Kenyon, Denison, Allegheny, Ohio Wesleyan, Earlham

B) they win all of the time; they're not competitive; they're from Ohio; they're not from Ohio

C) thugs, hooligans, rapscallions, ne'er do wells, liberals, conservatives, smarty pants, unrepentant sinners