MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[GoRed]

Well said, Wally.  My heart is bleeding for Seinfeld and all the Whooster Whiners out there.  Enjoy the success you have had and quit complaining.  Try being a Big Red fan some day - or any other team that hasn't even been close to knowing what it's like to have a winning tradition.  You have a strong program and a coaching staff that knows what it is doing. 

DU's staff, on the other hand, has once again missed the boat on how to bring its talents together to win games.  As has become Big Red tradition, we have hit the mid-season point and our W-L record indicates it will be a struggle to try to get that 8th seed.  Early season hope has led to desperate, frenetic measures being taken by the brain trust on the bench and fans (and likely players) wondering why they continue to endure the pain. 

AD Larry Scheiderer needs to make a change here like he did with the football program.  It is clear after 7+ years that Ghiloni and Co. can't move this program forward.  He may have plenty of other positive qualities, but he can't win games and he can't keep players.  There have been plenty of solid recruits come through the program in the last 8 years that could have helped the program become more competitive and get closer to the top of the conference  I'm afraid the record here speaks for itself.  This dog don't hunt. 

[ScotsFan]

So, in other words, it's only OK to complain about your team when your team is struggling just to make the top 8 in the conference?    

And I'd hardly call Seinfeld's post 'whining'.

It's called having high expectations.  You know.  That's what accompanies a successful program? 

Furthermore, nothing that Seinfeld said in this post or previous posts is untrue.  Wooster has been hit hard in recent years by transfers and others that have either quit the team or dropped out of school altogether.  And you can really see the result by looking at what Wooster has on it's bench.  Heck, just look at the minutes the starters logged in their last game vs. Allegheny if you think Seinfeld is just blowing smoke!

And another one of Seinfeld's concerns surrounding this Wooster team is focused on the lack of a true leader.  There is no one on Wooster's roster that has stepped up to take that role.  It's been hashed and rehashed about the fact that Marty Bidwell's true value to this team was his leadership and I think a lot of us Scot fans undervalued the loss of that leadership.  Unfortunately, that is no longer the case...

Yes, Wooster is 5-0 and alone atop the NCAC which is familiar territory for the Scots.  But let's not kid ourselves here.  Wooster could very easily have 2, 3 or maybe even 4 losses in conference if they hadn't found a way to finish down the stretch.  Both games vs. Kenyon could have very easily gone the way of the Lords and Allegheny had the ball, down one with the shot clock turned off and a chance to win that game.  And the OWU game was very much in doubt until the last few minutes in that game as well.  So, please don't pretend that Wooster is coasting along to another NCAC crown, because that is far from the case.

[bufordscot]

I wish my team's "down year" meant being 5-0 and being and all alone atop the conference standings. 

Those of us who saw Tom Dinger play might disagree.

[GoRed]

ScotsFan - perhaps I was a bit harsh.  However, everything you said about Wooster can be said about Denison.  Three or four horses that have been run into the ground from overwork, no bench strength and high turnover. 

The difference is that Wooster is still winning, and likely will recover from what its fans might consider to be a down year.  There is a tradition of winning, and I commend the school, athletic department and coaches for establishing and carrying on that tradition.  In short, they know what they're doing!  I don't think you'll have any trouble continuing to get players to come to the school next year and I don't think you'll have difficulty getting 200 spectators to watch a home game on a Wednesday night. 

Big Red fans would love nothing more than to see the hard work being put in by its players result in a few more victories.  Our tradition, unfortunately, has been the opposite of yours, and my opinion is that with the quality of the University and the reputation it has, that tradition can change.  The school and athletic department have to want it to change, though.

   

[ScotsFan]

ScotsFan - perhaps I was a bit harsh.  However, everything you said about Wooster can be said about Denison.  Three or four horses that have been run into the ground from overwork, no bench strength and high turnover. 

The difference is that Wooster is still winning, and likely will recover from what its fans might consider to be a down year.  There is a tradition of winning, and I commend the school, athletic department and coaches for establishing and carrying on that tradition.  In short, they know what they're doing!  I don't think you'll have any trouble continuing to get players to come to the school next year and I don't think you'll have difficulty getting 200 spectators to watch a home game on a Wednesday night. 

Big Red fans would love nothing more than to see the hard work being put in by its players result in a few more victories.  Our tradition, unfortunately, has been the opposite of yours, and my opinion is that with the quality of the University and the reputation it has, that tradition can change.  The school and athletic department have to want it to change, though.

   

Fair enough.  I wasn't trying to dismiss your complaints.  I was just making the point that whether you support a successful program or not does not allow or disallow complaining about said program.  Depth is one of the key components that have kept Wooster and Wittenberg perched atop the NCAC for all these years.  No one else in the conference could consistently match the depth of those 2 programs.  But recently, both Witt and Woo have been experiencing a depletion of talented depth and the rest of the conference seems to be catching up.

As I said earlier in the season just before DU knocked off Wabash, their record might not indicate it, but they have shown that they can play with just about anyone.  Now, I don't know if Wednesday's lopsided result was a result of the starters starting to show signs of wearing down or what, but that was by far Denison's most lopsided defeat this season.  The question from here on out for the Big Red is how do they respond?  Kenyon lost 2 straight by a combined 63 points.  How did they respond?  By nearly knocking off Wooster at Wooster!  And they followed that up by nearly knocking off OWU.  Kenyon may not be getting the results, but they are far from throwing in the towel.  I hope that the Big Red aren't ready to throw in the towel just yet.

[HCfan]

Hey guys...first time posting but I have been looking at the boards a long time.

GoRed-I am just wondering why having a 3-2 conference record and being tied for third right now is a reason to call for a struggle to get the 8th seed? Who cares what happened during the non-conference schedule, what matters now is what you have been doing in conference. And with the exception of the last game, Denison has looked good in the conference. I'm just saying that it seems a little early to start to panic this year, given the position you are in now. As far as Coach Ghiloni goes he seems like a good coach to me. He always has his teams ready to play no matter who they are playing. And I am assuming that you are saying he doesnt recruit by saying "This dog dont hunt." But you also say there have been plenty of people come through the program who could have helped the team...so who is getting them there if the DU staff isn't recruiting? If you have this much of a problem with the men's team then maybe you should go cheer for the women...they are pretty good from what I hear. 

[wally_wabash]

I hope that the Big Red aren't ready to throw in the towel just yet.

Maybe not just yet...but sometime before tipoff tomorrow would be nice.   

[GoRed]

HC,

I love the womens' team at DU and would take Sara Lee as the coach of the men.  Maybe they can do a swap for the rest of the season to see what happens.

Anyone who thinks non-conference doesn't matter is deluding themselves.  It matters to the players' psyche and it , it matters to the fans and certainly matters for every team in the conference when it comes to tournament time.

[HCfan]

GoRed-

I respectfully disagree, it is important if used right to get you ready to play teams you play in your conference (same style of play). It only matters to the one or two teams that MAY get a Pool C bid...but the thing that gets most teams in the tourney is conference play. Apparently being 0-9 outside of the conference doesn't hurt Denison's psyche because again they are 3-2 in the conference and tied for 3rd place.

[David Collinge]

Saturday games to grumble about:

Earlham (1-4) at Wooster (5-0), 1pm -- Live stats and audio; live alternate audio (COW student)
Denison (3-2) at Wabash (3-2), 3pm -- Live stats but no audio for some reason
Kenyon (0-5) at Oberlin (0-5), 3pm -- Live stats and video
Hiram (4-1) at OWU (2-3), ~3pm -- Live Everything including live chatting via Twitter with OWU broadcast team -- Game 2 of a doubleheader; game 1 is can't miss women's game between Wittenberg (5-0) and OWU (6-0), same links apply
Wittenberg (4-1) at Allegheny (3-2), ~3pm -- Live stats and audio (Witt) -- Game 2 of a doubleheader; game 1 is another great women's game, between Kenyon (3-2) and 'Gheny (2-3)

[wooscotsfan]

At the risk of more grumbling...I was on an airplane Wednesday night and missed the radio broadcast of Wooster's narrow win at Gheny.

A few observations from reviewing the boxscore:

Congrats to Ian Franks on a career night with 33 points!   He is clearly Wooster's leader at this point, as noted by Seinfeld and others, but much of this seems to occur by default as other Scots are not stepping up.  Most puzzling to me is the regression by Nathan Balch and Justin Hallowell this season after their strong performances last year.  Combined, Balch and Hallowell shot 5 of 19 from the floor at Gheny which explains Wooster's horrid 39% shooting as a team.

So, how did Wooster win a road game shooting only 39% when Gheny outshot them?

Wooster took great care of the ball with only 8 turnovers compared to 13 for the Gators.  Scots also made 19 of 22 free throws which resulted in a positive 4 point differential vs. Gheny.  Wooster only shot 16% on three pointers but they made 4 of them compared to only 3 hit by the Gators.  Bryan Wickliffe had a solid 10 points on strong 5 of 7 shooting.  Finally, Ian Franks either scored a bucket or drew a foul and made his charity tosses (10 of 11) when Wooster needed points to stay in the game.

One other troubling note about the Gheny boxscore.  As Seinfeld noted, the Wooster bench just keeps getting thinner and thinner.  While the coaches are correctly now playing Matt Fegan more minutes than Justin Warnes, Fegan was the only bench player to play significant minutes (25) against Gheny.  Josh Claytor only logged 8 minutes, Warnes had only 5 minutes and Jake Mays barely broke a sweat with just 3 minutes.  If you discount the last 3 players, Wooster essentially played a 6 man rotation vs. the Gators.

As ScotsFan noted, Wooster has scratched out 5 wins while not playing particularly well this season.  If the Scots continue to shoot poorly and have turnover problems in future games, the NCAC title is very much up for grabs this season.  Ian Franks can't bail Wooster out every night - - some other players need to elevate their games.

GO SCOTS!

[GoRed]

We'll need to plug into the big screens to get four Windows open for all the 3:00 action today.   

Witt at 'Gheny looks like the contest of the day to me.  A difficult three game stretch for the Gators, but if they can play a tight man and prevent the Tigers from getting the open looks from long range, this will be a tight one.  Hiram will have a tough time staying 4-1 at OWU, but consistency seems to be an issue with OWU so far this season.  Another close contest. 

I'm hoping for the best from Crawfordsville, but the LG's seem to be picking up steam and are going to be mad as hornets at the Big Red. 

Not sure what to make of Kenyon vs. Oberlin.  Would think the Lords will prevail handily, but Oberlin has a little more talent and strength underneath this year and may cause them some trouble.  The Scots will be 6-0 at 4:30 unless the power goes off in the gym. 

[ScotsFan]

Good observatsion GoRed.  I'd have to say that I would agree with you for the most part.

I too think Witt @ 'Gheny is the game of the day.  Allegheny seems to play well in the friendly confines of Meadville already beating OWU and taking Wooster to the brink.  I think Witt will have their first true test to see how they will be faring without the services of Greg Hill.  Witt got a dress rehearsal at Denison on Wed., but 'Gheny should pose a bit more of a challenge to the Tigers than the Big Red.  No offense GoRed. 

Hiram at OWU is also an intriguing matchup.  This is a must win really for both teams.  A loss for OWU would all but end their hopes of a conference championship.  And Hiram doesn't want to fall 2 games behind league leading Wooster.  IMO, OWU isn't neccessarily inconsistent.  They haven't won a whole lot, but they have been pretty competitive in most of their losses.  I think the Bishops are poised to make a bit of a run now that the conference schedule is in full bloom and a win today would be a great start for them.  Hiram, on the other hand, has been the epitomy of inconsistency this season.  They've looked great at times including their win over Witt and then they've looked flat out awful albeit in ugly wins over the likes of lowly Oberlin and Bluffton.  If the Pups play up to their potential, it could make for a long afternoon in Deleware for OWU.  But the question is, will the real Pups show up?

As for the game in C'ville, I'm not holding out much hope for your Big Red.  Wabash seems to be a different team at home as opposed to the road.  And add in the revenge factor and I think that you have the makings of a blowout for Wabash.  Sorry Red, but that's just how I see it. 

And the Kenyon-Oberlin game will get one of these 2 off of the schneid in conference play.  Personally, I think it will be Kenyon, but who knows?

Just over an hour to tip at Timken.  Still trying to decide if I want to drag myself out of the house to go.

[ScotsFan]

Decided to stay home.  Missed the pre-game on the radio, but Brandon Johnson didn't start and has yet to play.  Anyone know if there was there any mention of an inury?

Game wise, Wooster's shooting woes have carried over early as they are only 4-14 to start the game and find themselves down 16-10 with 12 minutes to go.

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EDIT:

Nevermind on my question about Johnson.  Mike Breckenridge just answered my question.  Brandon apparently re-aggrevated his knee injury in the Allegheny game and isn't dressed.  He is going to be monitered on a daily basis for the remainder of the season.

[wooscotsfan]

Radio announcer mentioned that Brandon Johnson has aggravated his knee injury and wil be reassessed game by game.

Wooster has rallied and now leads 25-20 with 5:45 left in the first half.