MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[wally_wabash]

A couple of notes - Ian Franks seems to be just about unstoppable.  At the halfway mark of the season he has to be the odds-on favorite for POY.

Objection! 

Yes, the Lil Giants have a chance to get one back on Wooster when the Scots travel to C'ville, but Wabash is going to have a hard time winning one in Deleware or Springfield, let alone both of them. 

Why can't Wabash win at OWU or Witt? 

Did you see the word can't in my post?  Never said that it coudn't happen.  Geez.  Touchy much?   

In my OPINION, judging by the fact that all 5 of Wabash's losses have been on the ROAD, I'm just not as positive as some wearing red and white glasses that Wabash will win one or both games when they make the trek to OWU and Witt.  Especially when one of those losses was to lowly Denison on the road.

Just because I hold that OPINION, does not make it fact as you seem to be alluding to Wally.

All five of Wabash's losses were on the road, true.  All five of those losses happened an eternity ago.  You are submitting that Wabash is a bad road team...I'm submitting that Wabash wasn't playing well during the front half of the schedule (when seven of the first nine games were away from C'ville) and lost because of their play, not because of which gyms they happen to be playing in.  If you don't play well, you'll probably lose...at home, on the road, under water, on Mars...doesn't matter. 

I'm not going to say that the games in Delaware and Springfield will not be hard games.  They will be (Wabash has NEVER won at HPER).  But I don't know that there is a case to be made that Wabash isn't playing the best ball in the league right now (not December!) and these Little Giants are capable of beating any team in the league...in any gym. 

[ScotsFan]

The standings may not be up to date, but the all-important Player of the Week page is kept current using an atomic clock.  This week, the reigning POTW, Ian Franks, will tearfully pass the tiara and sceptre to OWU's Pat Pellerite.  Pellerite, who (mark my words) will be the NCAC Player of the Year before his career is over, snagged this week's award with double double-doubles in the Bishops' wins over Denison and Earlham.  OWU has now won five straight and are right back in the thick of the conference race.  Congratulations, Pat!

Glad to see your well documented man-crush on all things OWU continues David.         

[ScotsFan]

A couple of notes - Ian Franks seems to be just about unstoppable.  At the halfway mark of the season he has to be the odds-on favorite for POY.

Objection! 

While Franks is one of the odds on favorites, I think Wes Smith will have something to say in the POY race as well.  I will say, I think the POY is now a 2 horse race over the rest of the 2nd half of the conference schedule between Franks and Smith.

Looking at the numbers and I really don't envy those having to vote on this because at this point in time, I think both players are more than deserving of the award.  Smith leads in overall scoring average at almost 20 ppg while Franks checks in at just under 18 ppg.  However, in league play, Franks is leading the way at almost 23 ppg compared to Smith's 20 ppg.  Both players are in the top 5 in the league in fg % and both are over 50% on the season.  Franks is among the league leaders in 3-point percentage and assists while Smith is among the league leaders in steals and rebounding.

I will say that it seems that Wooster has relied more heavily on Franks than Wabash has on Smith.  I can count at least 3 conference games that Wooster would not have won if Franks doesn't put the Scots on his back and will them to victory.  I can't say that Smith was solely responsible for any of Wabash's conference wins as he has had far more help from the likes of Brock and Haltom on a consistent basis than Franks has had from his supporting cast.

Personally, I think whoever wins the conference championship will have a large impact on who wins POY this season.  If Smith can lead Wabash to overtake Wooster and their 2 game conference lead, he's your POY without question.  But, if Franks continues to play at the level he's been playing at and helps Wooster maintain their lead in the conference, I would say he should be your POY.

Any other thoughts on the matter?  David, any Bishops you feel worthy of being in this discussion? 

[ScotsFan]

All five of Wabash's losses were on the road, true.  All five of those losses happened an eternity ago.  You are submitting that Wabash is a bad road team...I'm submitting that Wabash wasn't playing well during the front half of the schedule (when seven of the first nine games were away from C'ville) and lost because of their play, not because of which gyms they happen to be playing in.  If you don't play well, you'll probably lose...at home, on the road, under water, on Mars...doesn't matter. 

I'm not going to say that the games in Delaware and Springfield will not be hard games.  They will be (Wabash has NEVER won at HPER).  But I don't know that there is a case to be made that Wabash isn't playing the best ball in the league right now (not December!) and these Little Giants are capable of beating any team in the league...in any gym. 

Maybe Wabash wasn't playing all that well to start the season.  My question is, could their bad play be contributed to the fact that they played 7 of 9 to start the season on the road?    And could their run of good play lately have something to do with the fact that they've played 5 of 7 in the friendly confines of Chadwick? 

I guess I would just like to see Wabash prove they can win a real road game before it's all said and done and we won't be able to see that for a while as the Lil Giants home cooking continues with 3 of their next 4 games in C'ville including a crucial tilt with the Scots on Super Bowl Sunday.  We won't be able to see how Wabash performes in a real road game until the last week and a half of the season when they travel to OWU and Witt on consecutive Saturdays...

[BigRedFan]

It sure looks like the wheels are off the wagon again!!

Looking at the schedule I think they really do have a realistic shot at finishing strong by winning 6 of 8.  That would make for a respectable conference finish.

Can anyone tell me where Mike Garabedian is??? 

He is a strong player and is certainly missed from the lineup.

[ScotsFan]

Now that I've gotten my piling on of Wabash out of the way... 

Looking at the top 25, might it be time that Wabash starts to get some consideration at least in the ORV category?  There seemed to be a lot of ORV teams that lost last week, so maybe it's time that Wabash gets a look?  I mean, they have won 7 in a row including a win over previously ORV member Wittenberg.

[wally_wabash]

Now that I've gotten my piling on of Wabash out of the way... 

Looking at the top 25, might it be time that Wabash starts to get some consideration at least in the ORV category?  There seemed to be a lot of ORV teams that lost last week, so maybe it's time that Wabash gets a look?  I mean, they have won 7 in a row including a win over previously ORV member Wittenberg.

Good grief no!  Last week penn wondered why Witt wasn't getting votes, Witt finally got a few votes and promptly lost twice.  The cloak of anonymity fits just fine, thank you.

in seriousness, the top 25 is a very exclusive club.  Wabash might be a top 25 team, but I don't think the body of work warrants a vote right now. Too many teams still out there that have similar or better records against a better schedule. 

[ScotsFan]

Good grief no!  Last week penn wondered why Witt wasn't getting votes, Witt finally got a few votes and promptly lost twice.  The cloak of anonymity fits just fine, thank you.

LOL!  Good point Wally. 

[imderekpoe]

Maybe it's time to resurrect the link to the tiebreaker formula that was provided by our good friend imderekpoe a couple of years ago.  (I see "derek" lurking in here a lot, but he's stayed silent so far this season.  We miss your contributions, and hope things are going well for you. )

Official tiebreakers

For Wabash to catch Wooster, in essence, the LGs would have to win out, beating Wooster in the process, and have Wooster lose a second time to someone who finishes ahead of Denison in the final standings.  Any losses by Wabash would have to be countered by another Wooster loss.  Wooster already has two one-point conference victories, and Wabash is hot right now, so this scenario is certainly possible.  Eight games is a long stretch.

If I read the tiebreakers correctly, the Wabash loss at Denison will have no bearing on the tiebreaker scenarios since Wooster doesn't play at Denison, and thus there is no "like game".  So if Wooster loses to Wabash and anyone else, and Wabash wins out, I believe that 'Bash wins the regular season crown.

[David Collinge]

If I read the tiebreakers correctly, the Wabash loss at Denison will have no bearing on the tiebreaker scenarios since Wooster doesn't play at Denison, and thus there is no "like game".  So if Wooster loses to Wabash and anyone else, and Wabash wins out, I believe that 'Bash wins the regular season crown.

Ah, yes.  You da man when it comes to tiebreakers.  But then, if Wooster's "anyone else" loss is at Hiram, that would also be negated by Wabash's not having played there.  Otherwise, I think you're correct. 

I think it is far too early in the season to begin the POY discussions; and when the time comes, JT Knight should at least be in the conversation (maybe third in a three-man race.)

[ScotsFan]

If I read the tiebreakers correctly, the Wabash loss at Denison will have no bearing on the tiebreaker scenarios since Wooster doesn't play at Denison, and thus there is no "like game".  So if Wooster loses to Wabash and anyone else, and Wabash wins out, I believe that 'Bash wins the regular season crown.

Ah, yes.  You da man when it comes to tiebreakers.  But then, if Wooster's "anyone else" loss is at Hiram, that would also be negated by Wabash's not having played there.  Otherwise, I think you're correct. 

You beat me to it David wrt Wooster losing at Hiram. 

What happens then if Wabash wins out and Wooster were to lose at Wabash and at Hiram?  Both Wabash and Wooster would have losses vs. each other and each would have losses on the road vs. different opponents and only Wabash faced Denison on the road while only Wooster faced Hiram on the road.  Would Wooster trump Wabash because Hiram is  currently ahead of Denison in the NCAC standings?  Technically, the better loss would still be Hiram thus giving the Scots home court for the NCAC tournament would it not?

I think it is far too early in the season to begin the POY discussions; and when the time comes, JT Knight should at least be in the conversation (maybe third in a three-man race.)

There's only 5 games left in the season so to say it's far too early may be a bit much isn't it?

I thought about Knight, but his numbers just don't jump out at me enough to think he can overcome the fact that he's playing on an 8th place team.  Personally, I would think POY is more than just scoring points and putting up numbers.  It also should have something to do with your value to your team.  So, I ask, where would Kenyon be without Knight?  Ninth or tenth?  They're eighth with him, so I don't see too much added value there. 

Now, look at where the Scots would be without Franks.  Hardly 8-0 and with a cushy 2 game lead in the conference standings IMO.  Wooster might be 5-3 at best without Franks, so IMO Franks adds far more value to Wooster with his presence in the lineup than Knight adds to Kenyon.  And I would say the same thing about Smith.  Just not quite to the extent of Franks' value.  I would need to see Knight's numbers being eye popping for me to consider him along with Franks and Smith, and quite frankly, they're not that much better, if at all than either Franks' or Smith's numbers.  If you want to call it a 3-man race, I would say Knight is a distant 3rd at the moment behind the other two... 

[David Collinge]

There's only 5 games left in the season so to say it's far too early may be a bit much isn't it?

There's 8 games left (9 for 'Gheny), not five.  That's why I think Knight still could be a factor in this conversation.

[bufordscot]

Note to Justin Hallowell - release the ball with your wrist, not your elbow

[ScotsFan]

There's only 5 games left in the season so to say it's far too early may be a bit much isn't it?

There's 8 games left (9 for 'Gheny), not five.  That's why I think Knight still could be a factor in this conversation.

IMO, for Knight to warrant consideration over Franks and Smith would mean that JT averages about 30 ppg the rest of the way out while Franks and Smith sputter home at around 10-15 ppg. 

All things being equal, the way all 3 of them are statistically speaking, I'll side with the 2 that are actually carrying their teams to a conference championship as opposed to one who is carrying his team just to qualify for the 8 seed in the conference tournament...

[David Collinge]

Jeez Louise, all I said was JT should be in the conversation, "third in a three-man race."  He is at least as valuable to his team as Franks and Smith are to theirs; he just doesn't have the supporting cast they do and so the wins aren't coming.  If I were voting, right now I'd go with Franks, hands down, but I'm willing to keep an open mind for the next few weeks.