MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[wally_wabash]

It took four days to get around to posting this...must have been some pretty impactful stuff those drunk kids were yelling. 

[David Collinge]

Yeah, inquiring minds want to know.  I'm a little surprised that there was any significant number of OWU students at the game (it must have been during exams if not winter break), and very surprised that they were ugly. 

[David Collinge]

Despite it being a Wednesday, it's pretty dead on the schedule.  Just two non-conference games to interfere with Christmas shopping or snow shoveling:

Hiram at Grove City, 7:00pm -- live stats
Mt. St. Joseph at Denison, 7:30pm -- audio and live stats

NCAC stands at 29-23 in the non-conference (had to go back 4 pages to find that!)

[woosterbooster]

Want to know why, Wallace?  Because I knew if it was my post that mentioned it, I'd be the target of one of your snide remarks.

There were twenty-plus students, in a group, mostly without shirts, and covered in some sort of white powder.  Mostly pretty big guys, and overweight; many looked like they could be linemen.  Security had to talk to them several times before the game and possibly during it.  They were loud and  overly obnoxious.  At least one of them, during a timeout, continually yelled over to the Wooster fans, calling someone out to meet him outside.  No official presence stepped in to stop this.  

I've seen similar stuff before, at various places, including Wooster by Wooster students.  This was among the worst.

[WAlum]

I heard some crude comments during the game but no four letter words. More bothersome was the individuals who appeared to be close to passing out or becoming sick.  We were wagering on which drunken student would vomit first.  Campus police did talk to the students on multiple occassions.  OWU's coach is not responsible for the students behavior.  During the game, he was sitting on the bench watching his team.

[WAlum]

I am new to the boards so my apologies if these topics have already been discussed.
Best game in the last 5 years.
Best team in the last 5 years.
Rank the coaches.
Rank the program.  (Not just this years team)
Toughest arena to win in as an opposing team.

Any thoughts?

[David Collinge]

Best game in the last 5 6 years. Feb. 12, 2005, Wooster 102, Wittenberg 95, 3OT (so I stretched the timeframe a wee bit...)
Best team in the last 5 years. 2005-06 Wittenberg Tigers, 30-4, lost in national championship game by 3 (although Wooster, 26-4 and NCAC champs, beat them twice that season.  Wooster was 23-1 at one point, but stumbled down the tournament stretch.)
Rank the head coaches. 1. Steve Moore, Wooster.  I'll reserve comment on the other 8.
Rank the program.  (Not just this years team) Wooster under Steve Moore is the strongest program by far.  Wabash and OWU are building winning traditions. Hiram is steadily improving and heading for a permanent position in the upper half.  Kenyon and Allegheny have been climbing in recent years, but have new coaches this season.  Wittenberg is not dominant like it used to be, but is still strong.  Oberlin and Denison have a ways to go.
Toughest arena to win in as an opposing team.  Probably Wooster, but more for the team than the atmosphere.

[ScotsFan]

When the game started, the baby-faced kid dominated.   

Should we now start referring to Franks as the Baby Faced Assassin?  

Want to know why, Wallace?  Because I knew if it was my post that mentioned it, I'd be the target of one of your snide remarks.

There were twenty-plus students, in a group, mostly without shirts, and covered in some sort of white powder.  Mostly pretty big guys, and overweight; many looked like they could be linemen.  Security had to talk to them several times before the game and possibly during it.  They were loud and  overly obnoxious.  At least one of them, during a timeout, continually yelled over to the Wooster fans, calling someone out to meet him outside.  No official presence stepped in to stop this.  

I've seen similar stuff before, at various places, including Wooster by Wooster students.  This was among the worst.

While I was not in attendance, I did tune into the radio broadcast and could definitely hear the students chanting things throughout the game.  As I noted in my post following the game, I heard the 'over-rated' chant during warmups which didn't work out so well for them...  

I do remember wondering what the OWU students were still being so vocal about when their team was getting drilled in the second half?  And if they were all drunk, I'm surprised they didn't leave once the game got out of hand and the alcohol started wearing off?  

[KnightSlappy]

Toughest arena to win in as an opposing team.  Probably Wooster, but more for the team than the atmosphere.

This is an interesting question. Wooster probably wins in straight home win percentage over the last five years, but I wonder who has the biggest difference in home/road splits?

Maybe I'll look it up.

[David Collinge]

It's not like anyone in the NCAC has much "atmosphere" for their games (Woo/Witt games aside.)  Wooster has many more fannies in the seats, but that's just it--they're in the seats.  If it's a close, exciting game (and/or if it's Witt), they can get involved, but mostly they just sit there quietly like Michigan fans.  Wittenberg fans are similarly quiet, and like Wooster, are disproportionately townies rather than students.  OWU students, as noted above, sometimes are motivated to attend and cheer, but not often enough to make their gym intimidating.  I've attended games at Kenyon where I felt like I knew the name of everyone in attendance.  Denison, Hiram, and especially Oberlin play before crowds that can't really be called "crowds."  I've never been to Allegheny or Wabash, but the videos I've seen from there are underwhelming.  Wabash does at least seem to have an active student section, but I'd hesitate to call Chadwick a "tough place to win" since it seems like the other W's succeed in doing just that with reasonable regularity.

[KnightSlappy]

Here's what my study found:

Kenyon -- 0.231
Wabash -- 0.203
Hiram -- 0.174
Oberlin -- 0.141
Ohio Wesleyan -- 0.089
Wittenberg -- 0.085
Denison -- 0.056
Wooster -- 0.045
Allegheny -- 0.012

This is home winning percentage minus away winning percentage for the past five full years plus this partial year (conference only).

The unbalanced schedule probably skews the results some. Wooster is so low because they win whether they're home or away. No real chance for much of an increase.

In all, it's probably due more to chance than atmosphere. At least I had fun.

[fantastic50]

Wabash being near the top does make some sense, because of the travel involved between Crawfordsville and anywhere else in the NCAC.  When you add in a solid team and decent crowd support, they are in the conversation for toughest place to play.

[David Collinge]

Wabash being near the top does make some sense, because of the travel involved between Crawfordsville and anywhere else in the NCAC.  When you add in a solid team and decent crowd support, they are in the conversation for toughest place to play.

...and when you subtract out the solid team and decent crowd support (but retain the travel barrier), you get Allegheny, at the bottom of the table.  Makes me think that the tough-to-get-there aspect is overrated.

[wally_wabash]

It's not like anyone in the NCAC has much "atmosphere" for their games (Woo/Witt games aside.)  Wooster has many more fannies in the seats, but that's just it--they're in the seats.  If it's a close, exciting game (and/or if it's Witt), they can get involved, but mostly they just sit there quietly like Michigan fans.  Wittenberg fans are similarly quiet, and like Wooster, are disproportionately townies rather than students.  OWU students, as noted above, sometimes are motivated to attend and cheer, but not often enough to make their gym intimidating.  I've attended games at Kenyon where I felt like I knew the name of everyone in attendance.  Denison, Hiram, and especially Oberlin play before crowds that can't really be called "crowds."  I've never been to Allegheny or Wabash, but the videos I've seen from there are underwhelming.  Wabash does at least seem to have an active student section, but I'd hesitate to call Chadwick a "tough place to win" since it seems like the other W's succeed in doing just that with reasonable regularity.

I do invite you to go ahead and stream any Wabash/DePauw hoops game next year.  The atmosphere there will rival (ha!) that of a Witt/Woo game.  I was very pleased to see the large and spirited crowd on the stream from this year's game down in Greencastle.  Expect that to ramp up now that these are league games.  I can't wait for that first NCAC game at Chadwick vs. DPU next season. 

In the last three seasons at Chadwick, Wabash has boatraced Witt and Woo once apiece, beaten Witt a second time, and lost the other three games to these teams by 2, 2, and 3 points.  While the record vs. the other W's over the last three seasons is 3-3, I think it's more than fair to say that winning at Chadwick is "tough".  You can do it, sure, but it's rare that you come to C'ville and run the LGs out of the gym. 

[woosterbooster]

I'm a little more optimistic than Massey's math, but I still figure Wooster to have less than a 50/50 shot at winning this season in Crawfordsville.  The road, outside of Oberlin, is a tough place.  I was surprised that the Scots won going away at OWU, but they played very well and the Bishops are really struggling.

I have a friend who, no matter what I say, believes this Wooster team to be the be-all-end-all.  When I told him of the Massey site and the prediction numbers, he believed that validated his opinion, in that Wooster is favored in every game, save in Crawfordsville.  Well, yeah, but you lose some of those games in which you're a favorite, even a heavy one.

Imagine the case of the 70% free throw shooter going to the line to shoot two.  Most people would think he's likely to make both.  In fact, his chances of doing that (for the moment dismissing other factors such as pressure, no-pressure, etc.) are only 49%.

The chances of Wooster winning at both Anderson and Wabash, based on the Massey numbers, are (.56)(.37) or 21% (rounded off).  The Scots odds of running the table during the regular season?  About 44-1 against, not much above a 2% chance.