MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[woosterbooster]

Love The Wire.  I'm actually watching it right now...last episode of season 3.  Good, good stuff. 

But see, unlike your endless ramblings about game officials, The Wire has a point.  And you failed to even attempt to answer the question.  Why, if you know that this is how the games are called, do you feel moved to come here and tell us about it?  What does any of that add to the conversation about NCAC basketball?  Why can't you stay focused on the games and the players...that's what this is about.   The referees couldn't be further from the point.  Here we are, about to get right into the teeth of what I think is going to be a great NCAC season...maybe one of the better league seasons we've had in a while, and we're on status interruptus because you've postulated that referees don't call fouls because they feel pressure to move the game along or keep the fans entertained or whatever other unsubstantiated horseplop you put out there.  Why can't we keep it focused on the league? 

Wally, I made a post regarding the relationship between overly physical teams, such as JCU, and the officials.  I believe that post to not only have been a valid opinion, but to certainly be related to DIII basketball and the NCAC.  Sorry, but you don't get to choose the subject matter here. 

Personally, I don't see the NCAC as being any stronger this year at all.  Yeah, maybe the overall non-league numbers are a bit better, but as has been mentioned, that has much to do with the elimination of one Indiana team and the rise of another.  Of all of the remaining teams, save Wooster and Wabash, I don't see real improvement in any of them.  At least two of them, Wittenberg and OWU, do not appear at the moment to be as strong as in the past.  I've no problem with that, the league is what it is.  If you're a fan of Wabash, and with them doing well you have more interest in the NCAC this season, that's totally understandable.  Why not admit it?  I'm a Giants fan.  This past baseball season was my favorite in many years, and it was due completely to how much I enjoyed watching their games and them having success.

[wally_wabash]

I've been active in this forum for a looong time now...longer than most.  Over 10 years in fact.  Whether Wabash is having a good season or a bad season or something in between (and I've seen them all in the last decade), I'm here sharing what I see about Wabash and the league in general.  Of course a large percentage of my posts are going to pertain to Wabash...that's who I'm watching most often and it's not like there are many others here talking Wabash hoops.  It's nice to have somebody representing.  But I'm also interested in the league at large and have been from the beginning.  To quote The Wire again, I don't think you can really analyze anything without context (Gus Haynes, season 5 if you're wondering).  No doubt it's exciting that Wabash is having a good year, but I'd be interested in the league and posting here regardless of Wabash's record. 

Wally, I made a post regarding the relationship between overly physical teams, such as JCU, and the officials.  I believe that post to not only have been a valid opinion, but to certainly be related to DIII basketball and the NCAC.  Sorry, but you don't get to choose the subject matter here. 

As for this...what happened is that you made a post saying that JCU fouls 60 times per game and gets away with it for reasons including the officials want to just move the game along and the officials want to make sure the fans are entertained.  Given the nature of your posting history, my sense is that this opinion is rooted in a tub of sour grapes left over from a game where JCU used the press to force a ton of Wooster turnovers and beat the Scots...and because the Scots don't lose a game or turn the ball over that much without something nefarious going on, it must be the fault of the officials for simply standing by and watching John Carroll The Terrible bully Wooster The Meek all over the court for 40 minutes because I guess they were scared of the JCU bullies or afraid that they would incite a mob riot if they called too many fouls.  That's what it's about...that's what it's always about.  All of that...from the notion that JCU fouls 60 tijmes per game to the justification as to why they get to do it is all bogus.  It's just wrong and I called you on it.  You've yet to support any of that with any kind of fact.  If you've got any kind of evidence to prove that this opinion comes from anyplace other than "Wooster gets screwed by the refs", then please do share. 

[woosterbooster]

I've been active in this forum for a looong time now...longer than most.  Over 10 years in fact.  Whether Wabash is having a good season or a bad season or something in between (and I've seen them all in the last decade), I'm here sharing what I see about Wabash and the league in general.  Of course a large percentage of my posts are going to pertain to Wabash...that's who I'm watching most often and it's not like there are many others here talking Wabash hoops.  It's nice to have somebody representing.  But I'm also interested in the league at large and have been from the beginning.  To quote The Wire again, I don't think you can really analyze anything without context (Gus Haynes, season 5 if you're wondering).  No doubt it's exciting that Wabash is having a good year, but I'd be interested in the league and posting here regardless of Wabash's record. 

Wally, I made a post regarding the relationship between overly physical teams, such as JCU, and the officials.  I believe that post to not only have been a valid opinion, but to certainly be related to DIII basketball and the NCAC.  Sorry, but you don't get to choose the subject matter here. 

As for this...what happened is that you made a post saying that JCU fouls 60 times per game and gets away with it for reasons including the officials want to just move the game along and the officials want to make sure the fans are entertained.  Given the nature of your posting history, my sense is that this opinion is rooted in a tub of sour grapes left over from a game where JCU used the press to force a ton of Wooster turnovers and beat the Scots...and because the Scots don't lose a game or turn the ball over that much without something nefarious going on, it must be the fault of the officials for simply standing by and watching John Carroll The Terrible bully Wooster The Meek all over the court for 40 minutes because I guess they were scared of the JCU bullies or afraid that they would incite a mob riot if they called too many fouls.  That's what it's about...that's what it's always about.  All of that...from the notion that JCU fouls 60 tijmes per game to the justification as to why they get to do it is all bogus.  It's just wrong and I called you on it.  You've yet to support any of that with any kind of fact.  If you've got any kind of evidence to prove that this opinion comes from anyplace other than "Wooster gets screwed by the refs", then please do share. 

Wally, you're lucky my first name isn't Pat.

[smedindy]

As of today, the NCAC ranks 9th in Massey in conference power rankings, two ahead of the OAC!!

Last year, they finished 12th ranked in Massey. The OAC was 7th.

Just throwing that out there - by neutral data - with the loss of Earlham and the improvement of the bottom end the NCAC is a deeper league. It may be a surprising result, but:

This season the overall ranking (amongst all college hoops teams):

Wooster - 316
Wabash - 326
Hiram - 798
Wittenberg - 883
OWU - 1014
Denison - 1295
Allegheny - 1334
Kenyon - 1399
Oberlin - 1828

Last season's final:

Wooster - 433 (+)
Wittenberg - 615 (-)
Wabash - 711 (+)
OWU - 921 (-)
Allegheny - 948 (-)
Hiram - 1115 (+)
Denison - 1410 (+)
Kenyon - 1538 (+)
Oberlin - 1607 (-)

Five of the nine teams are improved, some dramatically according to Massey.

[smedindy]

WB - You may have had a point but it was wrapped in a ridiculous conjecture (the refs let JCU get away with 3x or 4x more fouls than called) and hyperbole. That really kind of offset any validity your argument has.

When playing a team which has a style that makes your team uncomfortable, the natural reaction is for fans to think they are up to skullduggery.

[wally_wabash]

I don't think we can judge Witt yet until we see a few games with an ENTIRE team healthy. Witt has 2 games this week, one non-conference game next Monday and then 2 home games with Oberlin and Hiram next week before we get into the big stretch of conference play with a home game against Ohio NOrthern in-between there.

I still think its probably Wooster, Wabash, Wittenberg in the pecking order THIS year, however, if I do remember right Witt did beat Wabash 2 out of 3 times last year so until Wabash can break the trend, Wittenberg and Wooster are the two promanent teams in the conference. Before you have a cow wally, I didn't say "best," but prominent.

Wabash did sweep the regular season series with Witt last year...the LGs won in Springfield for the first time since joining the league.  Witt did just nip Wabash by one point in the semis of the tournament though.  

WooBoo...facts.  Where are they?  Prove that what you're saying is something other than a heaping helping of woe-is-us homerism.  

[KnightSlappy]

As of today, the NCAC ranks 9th in Massey in conference power rankings, two ahead of the OAC!!

Last year, they finished 12th ranked in Massey. The OAC was 7th.

Just throwing that out there - by neutral data - with the loss of Earlham and the improvement of the bottom end the NCAC is a deeper league. It may be a surprising result, but:

This season the overall ranking (amongst all college hoops teams):

Wooster - 316
Wabash - 326
Hiram - 798
Wittenberg - 883
OWU - 1014
Denison - 1295
Allegheny - 1334
Kenyon - 1399
Oberlin - 1828

Last season's final:

Wooster - 433 (+)
Wittenberg - 615 (-)
Wabash - 711 (+)
OWU - 921 (-)
Allegheny - 948 (-)
Hiram - 1115 (+)
Denison - 1410 (+)
Kenyon - 1538 (+)
Oberlin - 1607 (-)

Five of the nine teams are improved, some dramatically according to Massey.

Piggybacking off of smed's good work...

Massey's ratings:

Wooster - 1.014
Wabash - 1.001
Hiram - 0.200
Wittenberg - 0.116
OWU - 0.002
Denison - -0.317
Allegheny - -0.362
Kenyon - -0.444
Oberlin - -1.267

Conference is 9th with a -.006 rating

Last season's final:

Wooster - 0.718 (+)
Wittenberg - 0.459 (-)
Wabash - 0.320 (+)
OWU - 0.098 (-)
Allegheny - 0.067 (-)
Hiram - -0.141 (+)
Denison - -0.501 (+)
Kenyon - -0.692 (+)
Oberlin - -0.814 (-)

Conference was 12th on Massey's list with a -0.154 rating.
Rating without Earlham: -0.054 (would have passed the MIAA for 11th).

So it does indeed look like a lot of addition by subtraction, but the remaining teams are playing better as well.

[David Collinge]

Given the nature of your posting history, my sense is that this opinion is rooted in a tub of sour grapes left over from a game where JCU used the press to force a ton of Wooster turnovers and beat the Scots...and because the Scots don't lose a game or turn the ball over that much without something nefarious going on, it must be the fault of the officials for simply standing by and watching John Carroll The Terrible bully Wooster The Meek all over the court for 40 minutes because I guess they were scared of the JCU bullies or afraid that they would incite a mob riot if they called too many fouls.  That's what it's about...that's what it's always about. 

With all due respect, what it's also "always about" is you jumping on everything Wooster Booster posts, usually with a personal attack.  And here you're attacking him for something utterly absent in his post that you have invented out of "the nature of [his] posting history."

[gobash83]

Whether it is due to a slow work week, being snow bound, or just general crankiness, there seems to be a great desire on the part of some to find fallacies and slights, both real and imagined, in the posts of others.  While a vigorous, well-reasoned discussion of conflicting viewpoints is always education and usually entertaining, it would perhaps be an appropriate time to suggest a New Year's Resolution to ALL of being more respectful to others in our posts.  It certainly couldn't hurt. 

[wally_wabash]

There's no personal attack.  I'm just not going to let something like JCU fouls 60 times per game and gets away with it because the officials are intimidated go unchecked.  That's a bold statement that calls into question the integrity of our game officials.  If you're going to make that claim, you better come armed with something more than anecdotes about one or two games that you've seen against the team that you're obviously in the tank for.  Without any facts to support that claim, I think we can agree that the statement is garbage and get on with our season.  

Nobody should take these conversations personally.  I certainly don't.  

[David Collinge]

In other news....

OWU defeats St. Vincent 82-77 at Otterbein.

[bashbrother]

Gheny trails ONU at Half - 38-25.

[ScotsFan]

There's no personal attack.  I'm just not going to let something like JCU fouls 60 times per game and gets away with it because the officials are intimidated go unchecked.  That's a bold statement that calls into question the integrity of our game officials.  If you're going to make that claim, you better come armed with something more than anecdotes about one or two games that you've seen against the team that you're obviously in the tank for.  Without any facts to support that claim, I think we can agree that the statement is garbage and get on with our season.  

Nobody should take these conversations personally.  I certainly don't.  

So glad we have you on this board so people like WooBoo can't go get away with making comments that go unchecked. 

The problem with you is not that you call people out.  It's the way you go about it with your snide and condescending remarks that make you come across as a bit of an arrogant a**.  And if that is how you would like to be interpreted by many here in this forum, by all means carry on...

[woosterbooster]

Why is it, Wally, that when I read your posts I'm always reminded of Sean Hannity?  I can even hear his voice in my head.  If you're going to paraphrase and/or summarize my words, you really ought to get them right.  The word "intimidated" was never used, nor even implied.

Getting in a discussion with you really is a trip into the mire, isn't it?

[wally_wabash]

So glad we have you on this board so people like WooBoo can't go get away with making comments that go unchecked. 

The problem with you is not that you call people out.  It's the way you go about it with your snide and condescending remarks that make you come across as a bit of an arrogant a**.  And if that is how you would like to be interpreted by many here in this forum, by all means carry on...

Back to the name calling, SF?  Who's attacking who here?  Let's stick to the conversation and leave the name calling out of it.  

Where is the evidence that game officials rule based on the will of the crowd?  That's what has been put out here, disputed, and STILL unproven.  

Why is it, Wally, that when I read your posts I'm always reminded of Sean Hannity?  I can even hear his voice in my head.  If you're going to paraphrase and/or summarize my words, you really ought to get them right.  The word "intimidated" was never used, nor even implied.

Getting in a discussion with you really is a trip into the mire, isn't it?

Still no proof here that what you've claimed is anywhere near reality.  Where are the facts, Booster?