MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[kiltedbryan]

Here's some food for thought...if you're hosting the conference semis/finals, why wouldn't you want to play the first game on Friday?  You get an extra couple of hours of rest, you can sit and watch the next night's opponent when you're done, you avoid going really late if the first game stretches out through an overtime or two.  If I were coaching the top seeded team, I'd want those extra couple of hours in my pocket when I'm looking at a tough back-to-back.

I follow your logic -- heck, you might be right when it comes to purely basketball considerations -- but I think it's pretty clear why no one actually does this.

I just think you wouldn't get the fan base there and wouldn't have nearly the same atmosphere. It seems so ingrained in the host fan bases that the home team plays the late game, with the neutral court game acting, quite literally, as an opening act during which the home fans are expected to straggle in slowly mid-game.

If I'm the home team, I want the best atmosphere I can get for that semifinal. I absolutely put a huge value on that. For many teams, that conference semifinal game might be the biggest game they have played on-campus in several seasons (most teams aren't Wooster, where they're hosting it + NCAA games almost annually). You want as much of your student body, campus community, and local community at that game as you can get. Especially because you're only guaranteed that first semifinal game. I think there's just going to be a really strong bias toward putting that game in "prime time" (relatively speaking) vs. the earlier time slot.

Remember, local fans aren't traveling - they're balancing going to this game with the rest of their regular Friday routine. Start with the home team at a 5:30 or 6 pm game time on a Friday night and a pretty big chunk of your student body is probably still in the dining hall (or barely out of class) and your faculty and staff are home putting dinner on the table along with other local community fans. A 7:30 or 8 pm start is just going to draw better, period - and that's a big deal. It's a big deal for the school, the athletic department, and - not for nothing - your players, too. I'm pretty sure most coaches put a high value on giving his players that special experience of maybe the most packed, energized gym and crowd they have (and may ever) play in front of.

All in all, I think it's pretty obvious that the possible benefits of a bit of extra rest are more than countered by the perceived benefits of holding the better, later, time slot.

Also, what a weird visual it would be to have something like 80% of the assembled fans leave in between the two games...

[woosterbooster]

Here's some food for thought...if you're hosting the conference semis/finals, why wouldn't you want to play the first game on Friday?  You get an extra couple of hours of rest, you can sit and watch the next night's opponent when you're done, you avoid going really late if the first game stretches out through an overtime or two.  If I were coaching the top seeded team, I'd want those extra couple of hours in my pocket when I'm looking at a tough back-to-back.

I follow your logic -- heck, you might be right when it comes to purely basketball considerations -- but I think it's pretty clear why no one actually does this.

I just think you wouldn't get the fan base there and wouldn't have nearly the same atmosphere. It seems so ingrained in the host fan bases that the home team plays the late game, with the neutral court game acting, quite literally, as an opening act during which the home fans are expected to straggle in slowly mid-game.

If I'm the home team, I want the best atmosphere I can get for that semifinal. I absolutely put a huge value on that. For many teams, that conference semifinal game might be the biggest game they have played on-campus in several seasons (most teams aren't Wooster, where they're hosting it + NCAA games almost annually). You want as much of your student body, campus community, and local community at that game as you can get. Especially because you're only guaranteed that first semifinal game. I think there's just going to be a really strong bias toward putting that game in "prime time" (relatively speaking) vs. the earlier time slot.

Remember, local fans aren't traveling - they're balancing going to this game with the rest of their regular Friday routine. Start with the home team at a 5:30 or 6 pm game time on a Friday night and a pretty big chunk of your student body is probably still in the dining hall (or barely out of class) and your faculty and staff are home putting dinner on the table along with other local community fans. A 7:30 or 8 pm start is just going to draw better, period - and that's a big deal. It's a big deal for the school, the athletic department, and - not for nothing - your players, too. I'm pretty sure most coaches put a high value on giving his players that special experience of maybe the most packed, energized gym and crowd they have (and may ever) play in front of.

All in all, I think it's pretty obvious that the possible benefits of a bit of extra rest are more than countered by the perceived benefits of holding the better, later, time slot.

Also, what a weird visual it would be to have something like 80% of the assembled fans leave in between the two games...

I keep thinking that Wooster actually did do this once, maybe 12-15 years ago.  I'm not at all sure though, and if they did it, it may not have been in the league tournament; possibly it was in either the Al Van Wie or Mose Hole Tournament.

[David Collinge]

I'm too lazy to look it up, but I think it is in the conference tournament handbook that the home team plays in the second game.

And the atmosphere this year will be markedly different from the usual Timken/Pam Smith vibe. Because Branch Rickey is so (relatively) small, they will be clearing the gym between semifinals, with separate tickets required. So no half-full-of-the-locals-drifting-in first semifinal, although since it is Wooster in that game, it should be fairly well attended.

[woosterbooster]

I'm too lazy to look it up, but I think it is in the conference tournament handbook that the home team plays in the second game.

And the atmosphere this year will be markedly different from the usual Timken/Pam Smith vibe. Because Branch Rickey is so (relatively) small, they will be clearing the gym between semifinals, with separate tickets required. So no half-full-of-the-locals-drifting-in first semifinal, although since it is Wooster in that game, it should be fairly well attended.

I was just going to ask about the clearing-the-gym thing, because I noticed that the game times are 5:50 and 8:30.  I suppose they have to do this due to their capacity, but I think that it has to raise the question about whether there need to be certain facility standards in order to host this tournament.  Wittenberg and Wooster have had it for so long that it hasn't been a question.  Is Branch Rickey the third largest gym in the NCAC?  If so, what happens if some other school suddenly becomes a power? 

[wally_wabash]

I should have prefaced by saying that I understand why they schedule the games in the order they do...I was just thinking out loud about how maybe it isn't necessarily the best way strategically for the top seed.  I understand the "early" start time maybe being a problem, but if you had a 6/8:30 set, I think most people that really, really wanted to be at that 6:00 pm game would be there.  The folks that are aware that there is a game happening but are generally indifferent, probably aren't coming because now there's going to be a ticket cost involved whereas during the regular season there probably isn't.  That, I think, would deter your casual fan more than a 6 pm start time would. 

Is Branch Rickey the third largest gym in the NCAC?  If so, what happens if some other school suddenly becomes a power? 

No, but it is by far the darkest gym in the league.   
These are the gym capacity numbers that I yanked off of d3hoops.com:
Allegheny   960
Denison     3000
DePauw     2800
Hiram        2000
Kenyon      2000
Oberlin      1800
OWU         2300
Wabash     1800
Wooster    3400
Witt          3000

I was surprised at the Allegheny number so I looked that one up independently.  Allegheny's site says 1200 for the Wise Center.  Either way, really small space and if there is anyplace that would maybe struggle to host championship weekend, that's the one.  I think the rest could do it fairly comfortably. 

[bufordscot]

I'm glad the Scots only won by 38.  Had it been 40 someone would have said Coach Moore had the referees in his pocket.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Looking at the different athletic websites I had different numbers than Wally, at some of the arena's.

Team	capacity	URL
Wooster	3400	http://woosterathletics.com/facilities/files/timken.html
Wittenberg	3044	http://www.wittenbergtigers.com/information/facilities/Pam-Evans-Smith-Arena/index
Depauw	2400	http://depauwtigers.com/facilities/Lilly_PERC_Neal
Hiram	2000	http://www.hiramterriers.com/facilities/price
Wabash	1800	http://sports.wabash.edu/sports/2011/7/24/MBB_0724110922.aspx?path=mbball
Kenyon	1600	http://athletics.kenyon.edu/sports/2012/7/16/GEN_0716120709.aspx?tab=kenyonathleticcenter
Denison	1500	http://denisonbigred.com/facilities/mitchell_center
OWU	1450	http://www.battlingbishops.com/sports/2011/10/31/Branch%20Rickey%20Arena.aspx?&tab=3
Allegheny	1200	http://alleghenygators.com/sports/2012/5/25/GEN_0525121852.aspx?id=198

I could not find a capacity on Oberlins site. http://www.goyeo.com/sports/2010/8/11/GEN_0811100953.aspx?id=242

Edited to update proper website and upadte link For Branch Rickey arena

[David Collinge]

Unless Denison updated their gym when they did the pool, the capacity is nowhere near 3000. 1500 is more like it, and even that may be a stretch.

Not sure I could visualize 2000 in the Doggie Dome either.

[monsoon]

This is what OWU's website says:

Branch Rickey Arena seats 1450 for basketball and has been the site for NCAA Division III playoff games for both genders as well as several North Coast Athletic Conference and Ohio Athletic Conference tournaments.

That's quite a difference from 2300. I've not been there, but it looks like quite a place.

[woosterbooster]

This is what OWU's website says:

Branch Rickey Arena seats 1450 for basketball and has been the site for NCAA Division III playoff games for both genders as well as several North Coast Athletic Conference and Ohio Athletic Conference tournaments.

That's quite a difference from 2300. I've not been there, but it looks like quite a place.

From my memory, the 1450 number sounds more realistic.  Each side is a single level of no more than fifteen rows, stretching from end line to end line.  There is no end seating.  Do we have any rocket scientists who can produce a number from this?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F7ye86sL9hY/UWgdHCzEIZI/AAAAAAAAC1M/38aK1Lx9LRo/s1600/Branch_Rickey_Arena_2013_dt.jpg

As Wally pointed out, it is a dark arena.  Especially so when Wooster plays there and the lights at the Scots end of the court are dimmed.  OWU: has the Ohio electricians union in its pocket. 

[Bishopleftiesdad]

The link I originally posted at 2300 is not longer active so I have to believe the statement by Monsoon is accurate.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

This is what OWU's website says:

Branch Rickey Arena seats 1450 for basketball and has been the site for NCAA Division III playoff games for both genders as well as several North Coast Athletic Conference and Ohio Athletic Conference tournaments.

That's quite a difference from 2300. I've not been there, but it looks like quite a place.

From my memory, the 1450 number sounds more realistic.  Each side is a single level of no more than fifteen rows, stretching from end line to end line.  There is no end seating.  Do we have any rocket scientists who can produce a number from this?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F7ye86sL9hY/UWgdHCzEIZI/AAAAAAAAC1M/38aK1Lx9LRo/s1600/Branch_Rickey_Arena_2013_dt.jpg

As Wally pointed out, it is a dark arena.  Especially so when Wooster plays there and the lights at the Scots end of the court are dimmed.  OWU: has the Ohio electricians union in its pocket. 

So will both ends be dimmed in the first game

[wallyworld12]

This is what OWU's website says:

Branch Rickey Arena seats 1450 for basketball and has been the site for NCAA Division III playoff games for both genders as well as several North Coast Athletic Conference and Ohio Athletic Conference tournaments.

That's quite a difference from 2300. I've not been there, but it looks like quite a place.

From my memory, the 1450 number sounds more realistic.  Each side is a single level of no more than fifteen rows, stretching from end line to end line.  There is no end seating.  Do we have any rocket scientists who can produce a number from this?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F7ye86sL9hY/UWgdHCzEIZI/AAAAAAAAC1M/38aK1Lx9LRo/s1600/Branch_Rickey_Arena_2013_dt.jpg

As Wally pointed out, it is a dark arena.  Especially so when Wooster plays there and the lights at the Scots end of the court are dimmed.  OWU: has the Ohio electricians union in its pocket.

The lights aren't "dimmed," rather one end of the gym is a cinder block wall and the other is an arch that goes to the ground.  Lights on white surface = bright.  Lights near shadows = dark.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

For anybody wondering what the environment is like in Branch Rickey, for a playoff game, Here is an article from a St. Vincent supporter from a couple years ago when OWU hosted St. Vincent in a Regional:

http://pacsportsnetwork.blogspot.com/2013/03/ncaa-first-round-saint-vincent-at-ohio.html

[NCAC4Life]

I heard rumors that the baskets are ten feet two inches tall and the free throw line is really 16 feet from the basket. The rims are anti-dunk and will project a player into the ceiling if they try to hang on the rim. Then again, it could all just be rumors.