MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[waterboy]

I can see your point.  Depth is always a question mark in the NCAC save for Witt and Wooster who seem to put a better second string in than most other teams' starters.  From my recollections for past Earlham games with Wooster and Allegheny, the Quakers have always seemed to falter in the second half after playing very well in the first.

My question, however, was intended to deal more so with Justus himself as a leader and coach.  In the handful of games I've seen him coach, he has been fairly reserved and quiet on the bench, and appears to let players do what they want.  Case in point, Miller had a temper tantrum (I think that's how you spell it) in the second half of the first game with Woo last year and told the coaches to yank him, which I found very immature and suprising, given his talent level.  Any thoughts?

[ScotsFan]

The question I have with Earlham is how can they go toe to toe with Wooster, and give Hanover a good game and then take bad losses like they did last night to RHIT?  I know that EC doesn't have the luxury of going as deep as Wooster and Wittenberg without a significant drop in talent, but the way Miller, Jewett and even Henry have been playing, that should be enough to win games like last night.  To me, it seems like the Quakers have a tendency to play to the level of their opponents. They play up to the level against Woo and HC, and they play down to the level of RHIT, Bluffton, MSJ, etc.  How else can you describe it?  This also seems to be the trend not just this year, but also over the past several years at Earlham too.  I'm not trying to be critical, its just an observation.

[smedindy]

Earlham does not make exceptions for athletes financially and academically.  I always find it odd when a college like Franklin or Wabash can offer more financial Add then Earlham. 

Were you making an accusation, there?

I know nothing of Franklin, but at Wabash we give all of our students all of the financial aid they qualify for - no matter if they are an athlete or not. Our endowment allows us to do that plus we have many long standing scholarship funds that also help in that effort.

[earlhamalum]

Waterboy-
   I consider Coach J a players coach.  When I speak lack of depth I also belive that puts coaches in a TOUGH spot.  That is something that can make teams with DEPTH a lot better, because if you're not getting it done player number 8 wants his chance.  We lost several players, during and after my Soph. year.  He cut down on minutes of players who was not doing what was in the SYSTEM...  Several players were not happy with that.  Coaching is a lot harder then it seems.  I'm the head freshman coach at my old high school and i'm seeing things in a whole nother LIGHT.  Maybe he is to much of a players coach... but I personally don't think that is possible.  These players have the experience and the ability to beat teams like Rose, Bluffton, and come up Franklin and Depauw... but coach J doesn't put on a uniform and play between the lines.

[bishopsfan]

What I do not understand is why over the past couple of weeks has this forum shifted from educated fans talking the game of basketball to a bunch of idiots bashing the coaches?  If it were not for the Wooster vs. Wittenberg game there would have been a smooth transition from the Denison fans bashing Coach Ghiloni to now the Earlham fans bashing Coach Justis (I greatly appologize for misspelling any of these names).  Lets be honest, all coaches have their plusses and minuses, but when it comes down to it no one who complains on a site like this could do a better job!  Perhaps you who continue to complain about your coach should take a look at what you are doing to help the situation......nothing!

[GoBigRed]

Bishopsfan, your comments are preposterous. Idiots? I myself disagree with some of the systematic decisions that Denison's coaches are making, so where better than here to do put it out there and say, "this is what I'm seeing, I think this is hurting the team, can someone explain this, and so on." I would still classify inquiring about the rationale for playing 11 guys as talking about the game of basketball. So coaches are off limits because we couldn't do a better job? Can't discuss bad acting in a movie because we couldn't act any better? Can't discuss a player performance because we couldn't play any better? Would you like the only posts on this forum to be happy and positive, and no one should complain because no one can do it better? Never did I, nor anyone in any of the posts Ive read, say that they'd do a better job. Its about expressing opinions and sharing insight. Do me a favor, if you're so upbeat all the time and don't want to hear criticism, just skip my posts.

[ScotsFan]

I second what GBR says. 

bishopsfan,

Namecalling is so much more along the lines of "educated fans talking the game of basketball" isn't it?  If calling people idiots is your way of adding to the discussion in here, then we were better off without you.   Since when does questioning the actions of coaches become bashing?   Last time I checked this was a forum to discuss ALL things related to D3hoops.  Are coaches somehow exhempt from that discussion?

Also, from what I've read, earlhamalum has pretty much defended Coach Justus.  A couple of us brought up some questions about why EC seems to underachieve every year and naturally, the first place to start is with the head coach.  I don't seem to recall anyone "bashing" Coach Justus.  To me, they were valid questions to bring about more discussion on other teams other than Wittenberg and Wooster. 

Its funny, people are always complaining about how there is too much Wooster and Wittenberg talk in here.  Then, there is some discussion about the problems at Denison, and questions about Earlham's inconsistencies and now we are "idiots" for bashing coaches???   So, what you are saying bishopsfan, is that you would rather we just stick to Wooster and Wittenberg talk in here to make you happy?  Personally, I can't remember anything you've contributed as far as "educated fans talking the game of basketball."

[billy_pilgrim]

I know that Earlhamalum wasn't bashing Coach Justus...and that will be the last thing that I do as well. I think both of us are loyal ex-Quakers who have a ton of respect for Coach Justus.

As for playing to the level of competition as ScotsFan pointed out............that's fair, and I don't disagree. But, having been in that locker room, I wouldn't say that Justus' preparation has been much, if any, different from the conference games.

Smedindy, I really don't think Earlhamalum was making an accusation against Wabash, et al., but rather stressing his dismay at Earlham's financial aid department. In my mind, Earlham strives to have a certain level of diversity each year. Now, let me see how delicate I can be with explaining this and still get my point across.

Earlham has always been, and has become increasingly, a niche Midwestern Quaker college for a whole lot of East Coast students. So, when a bunch of white guys from Massachusetts or Vermont are taking your alloted "white male" spots in both the class and in financial aid, it really doesn't leave a lot for the "white Indiana shooters" that I joked about earlier this season. Now, Earlham, through their often short-sighted recruiting methods, has chosen to recruit students (not always student athletes) from Gary, Indiana. This has been led by a couple of employees in the recruitment office who are originally from the Region. Do you see the road we're headed down here?

Now, one of those office employees is also an assistant football coach. So, you can imagine that a portion of those students from Gary are also football players.

OK, so let's recap. Admission applications are at an all-time high, spurred by Earlham being mentioned in a number of recent books about it being "a progressive education", etc. The recruiting office is focused on finding eligible students from Gary, not always a basketball hotbed. So, Coach Justus has been put in a tough situation in recruting. Earlham is bringing in only around 150 freshMEN each year...and with the aformentioned recruiting strategies and a number of other factors, it's not easy to fit in a stellar recruting class. Oh yea, have I mentioned that Earlham recently moved up its application deadline, making late-season recruiting an absolute bear.

Looking at the Earlham "regulars" now: Jewett, Miller, Stewart and Terrel Brown are all Richmond High School grads. To my knowledge, Richmond grads (and other Wayne Co.  grads) are given nice financial aid packages. I don't know the specifics of others in Earlham's rotation, but I don't think they are "hurting" to pay for a college education.

So, Earlham doesn't offer a great deal of financial aid to white Indiana students outside of Wayne County.....my checkbook shows it. Now, answer honestly, who's playing for the Little Giants, Franklin, Hanover and others?

[smedindy]

The recruiting office is focused on finding eligible students from Gary, not always a basketball hotbed.

My, how times have changed. There always used to be a Gary or East Chicago team in the Lafayette semi-state, back before they ruined HS hoops in Indiana.

What I don't get is why Earlham isn't treating everyone equally after they have been admitted? Are you sure that's the case? At Wabash, once they've been accepted then everyone gets their fair share of aid. I can see wanting to hold some spots in a class open for diversity, but after they've applied and been accepted I can't believe they'd throw more money at someone than they are entitled to.

[sac]

Useless trivia

My grandfather once had an unassisted triple-play for the Denison Big Red baseball team.  Back in the 20's.

[DenisonFan]

On the eve of the Wabash crushing of the Big Red I would also like to say I agree with GBR.

It was earlier that we must be X players with a grudge.  WHAT IS THAT??  Plus, what difference would it make anyway.

As far as Ghiloni running his "freshman" gym class.  This is a team that finished last year going 8-3.  Ghiloni wins Coach of the Year riding the coat tales of Hodgkinson and Hern.  They lost one starter off of last years team.  If is isn't broken why CHANGE?

In the write up by Craig Hicks, Denison's SID, following the Bluffton even he says there is plenty of time to "RIGHT THE SHIP".  That to me implys that something is wrong with the ship or why would you want to right it. 

Earlham played Rose-Holman last night.  Both teams played 7 guys the majority of the time.  GEE I wonder why??  Could it be that those coaches put the guys out there that give their teams the best chance of winning the game???  I actually thought that was what coaches are suppose to do.  Apparently not in Ghiloni's world.

One third of the season is done and Ghiloni doesn't know who to play?  Does he go to practice??

I am sorry if this sounds like sour grapes.  But to sit there and watch a talented Big Red team go down the toilet is hard to take.

Wabash by 40!!!!

[David Collinge]

Useless trivia

My grandfather once had an unassisted triple-play for the Denison Big Red baseball team.  Back in the 20's.

So I suppose if Bob Ghiloni had coached that team, the play would have been liner to Grampa Curry at 2nd (out), flip to short, toss to left, throw to catcher (out), roll to pitcher, throw to first, overthrow retrieved by rightfielder, toss to center, throw to third (out)?    If you're scoring at home, that's a 4-6-7-2-1-3-9-8-5 triple play.

I agree with Bishopsfan; there's entirely too much chatter in here about subjects other than Wooster and Wittenberg.     *please note heavy use of sarcasm*

[smedindy]

I think you will notice Wabash plays 10-12 per game every night, and players like Zimmer and Simkus could be starting, easily.

And yes, last year Denison finished strong but also was 3-7 at one point, after a loss to....BLUFFTON! Then they were 5-9 before their finishing kick, which coincidentally fell when they played beatable NCAC teams.

Hmmmm....much like this season's schedule works out.

And in looking at their losses, the only one that sticks out at me as truly unexcpected is Marietta. I would probably have picked them to lose to Rose Hulman and Bluffton.

I could see them at 3-10 after OWU (0-4 in the NCAC) before and then just losing three more games (maybe four) after that and finishing 12-13 before the NCAC tourney, and 9-7 in the NCAC.

Exactly the same record as last year, without the upset of Wittenberg.

[earlhamalum]

SAC- I greatly Appreciate you're  useless trivia.  I think billy_pilgram would too.

I can add to that... In 2002 Earlham Baseball Season there was a   7-3 putout at 3rd.  ? how does that happen and what 1st baseman had the heads up to do that??

[waterboy]

Personally, I think there have been far too many "idiots" jumping on this board following the Woo-Witt game and not enough educational chatter about the NCAC and Div. III basketball.  If Ghiloni isn't getting the job done at Denison, then Big Red fans have every right to bash him on this board, or at least put forth educated and informed remarks.  The same goes for Allegheny, Witt, Woo, and whoever else can throw something in there.  I had a question about Justus's coaching skills and earlhamalum kindly replied with insightful remarks from the perspective of a player and a current coach himself.

I'm going to back Scotsfan on this one as well, what have you contributed to any conversation on this board?  If you don't have anything informative to add at any point, then don't bother the rest of us who do and would like to share it with their fellow basketball peers.