MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[scotty]

basketball...baseball...what do you say, let's do it in
football...go Scots...

[ScotsFan]

I thought that Witt's fan section may have been saying "Buck you Wooster" to try to be cute...to my ears it didn't really seem like an "F" sound to start it-but maybe I'm just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.  Either way, Wooster's students aren't innocent- we seem to like saying "S&$t on Witt."  Both sides were guilty of "Bull S&$t" chants when officials' calls didn't go there way.

Personally, I wish we'd just play the basketball game and have more inventive/interesting cheers, which would reflect better on our schools' academic reputations, anyway.

scotsbrod,  I totally agree with your take.  I wasn't trying to infer that Wooster's students were innocent.  Far from it.  That S&$t on Witt chant does nothing but fire up Witt's players even more in my opinion.  I was just making a point to oldwittfan in referrence to his earlier post  when he acted like Wooster's students were basically classless and that Witt's AD does a much better job of controlling Witt's students.

I don't find anything wrong with opposing student sections jabbing at one another with different chants.  It adds to the fun atmosphere of rivalry games.  But when profanity has to be brought in, I think that crosses the line.  I will say though, it sure seems like there are a bunch of innocents in here.  For me, as an undergrad at Westminster, football was our sport and we had some wild tailgating going on during my days there.  As I said though, there is a point where things can cross the line and I think we are seeing that at campuses all over more and more which can be a bit disturbing.

[David Collinge]

Warren, do the students at LebVal not invent ways to feel superior?  When I was a student, it seemed like more time was spent inventing and acting upon imaginary class stratification than any other activity.  It was the very essence of the Greek system.  In a caste system such as that, "townie" tends to be the "untouchable." 

I'd be thrilled to learn that that's not the case anymore.  I'd also be surprised.  And let's face it; it's not like college students are the only people creating wholly fictional class divisions and then organizing their lives around those fictions.

[woosterbooster]

Many years ago when I was a student at Bradley in Peoria, Illinois, the Greeks ruled the campus, or at least thought they did.  To the Greeks, anyway, everyone else (including me) was a GDI, a Goddamned Independent.  And the lowest of those were the townies.  In my opinion, the system succeeded only in inflating the egos of a few thousand kids.

I had no interest in rushing any houses, but a few weeks later, two Jewish guys from my high school back in New York invited me to dinner at their frat house.  They tried to talk me into joining, to become the first non-Jewish guy in their frat.  I think what they really wanted was a quarterback for their flag football team.  I said no, although if I had been inclined to go Greek, it would have been with them.

And once in a while we GDIs kicked some Greek butt.  In my second year I put together an independent intramural basketball team that, after winning our league, won the campus championship.  We had four former all-state high school players (two who had played on the Bradley freshmen team the) and were pretty darned good.  Probably could have given Oberlin a good game... 

[oldwittfan]

I stand by my earlier posts  The Wittenberg Athletic Director has acted in the past to stop ugly behavior.  He would have in this case too.   If you knew the Wittenberg Athletic Director and had seen him in action, you would know that.  You do not know but feel free to criticize anyway.  Maybe you have seen the Wooster Athletic Directors do something when their students yelled vulgar stuff.  I have not.  The adults need to exercise some leadership.  This kind of vulgar stuff is not necessary for fans to have fun and support their teams.

By the way as someone who lives in Springfield, I too was insulted by the homie sign.  James Cooper is a good young man and an outstanding player.  Springfield is proud of him and wishes him well.  Of course we Wittenberg fans just wish he would not do quite so well against Wittenberg.  Most of Wittenberg's students do good things in the community, but some are jerks.  I stated that early on.  Could we just agree that this behavor is stupid and urge both Athletic Departments to try to control it..   

[smedindy]

Why the hell should it matter if a student is a "townie" (except to ignorant non-townie students with an infantile sense of self-importance)?

It helped me - my pledge brothers knew where they could go for good Sunday night grub! La Casa de Smed!

[Mr. Ypsi]

Many years ago when I was a student at Bradley in Peoria, Illinois, the Greeks ruled the campus, or at least thought they did.  To the Greeks, anyway, everyone else (including me) was a GDI, a Goddamned Independent.  And the lowest of those were the townies.  In my opinion, the system succeeded only in inflating the egos of a few thousand kids.

I had no interest in rushing any houses, but a few weeks later, two Jewish guys from my high school back in New York invited me to dinner at their frat house.  They tried to talk me into joining, to become the first non-Jewish guy in their frat.  I think what they really wanted was a quarterback for their flag football team.  I said no, although if I had been inclined to go Greek, it would have been with them.

And once in a while we GDIs kicked some Greek butt.  In my second year I put together an independent intramural basketball team that, after winning our league, won the campus championship.  We had four former all-state high school players (two who had played on the Bradley freshmen team the) and were pretty darned good.  Probably could have given Oberlin a good game... 

Small world!  I grew up in Peoria, and my mom taught (part-time) at Bradley!

IWU was also totally dominated by the greeks; we independents didn't call ourselves 'goddamned independents' - it was a more subtly nuanced  Gamma Delta Iotas!!

My guess is that your intramural team would not simply have given Oberlin a good game - you probably would have finished 4th or 5th in the NCAC!  I'm not sure when 'many years ago' might be, but Bradley was once a national power in d1, and their recruited freshmen would likely be d3 all-conference players.

[WooMix]

By the way as someone who lives in Springfield, I too was insulted by the homie sign.  James Cooper is a good young man and an outstanding player.  Springfield is proud of him and wishes him well.  Of course we Wittenberg fans just wish he would not do quite so well against Wittenberg.  Most of Wittenberg's students do good things in the community, but some are jerks.  I stated that early on.  Could we just agree that this behavor is stupid and urge both Athletic Departments to try to control it..   

I second that.  Good one oldwittfan.

[woosterbooster]

My guess is that your intramural team would not simply have given Oberlin a good game - you probably would have finished 4th or 5th in the NCAC!  I'm not sure when 'many years ago' might be, but Bradley was once a national power in d1, and their recruited freshmen would likely be d3 all-conference players.

I was there in the late sixties; my freshman year was the fall of 1965.  That was the year after Bradley, led by future ABA player Lavern (Jelly) Tart won the NIT.  My first year we got an NIT invite but the board of directors turned it down due the legal problems of our center, Joe Allen.  The board was hung in effigy in a protest by the students. 

My intramural team had Allen Goode, basketball all-state from New Hampshire and also that state's record holder in the shot put.  He was 6'5" and also a tackle on the football team.  Our other big guy was named Don Canfield, also about 6'5".  I loved it.  The defense would collapse on those guys and I'd just throw up twenty foot jumpers from the perimeter.  Once in a while, they even went in, but if they didn't, we generally got a stick back. 

Goode was a moose, bigger than Brian Nelson.  He lived two rooms down from me in the dorm my first year.  We got brave one day, and when he wasn't there got into his room and stole his mattress.  Actually, we tied a rope around it, shoved it out the window and lowered it to the ground from our fourth floor.  Trouble is, when we went down there to get it to hide it somewhere, it was gone!  Some jerks who lived on the first floor snagged it, and hid it on us!  For a while, Goode was intent on kicking all of our asses, but we eventually calmed him down with promises of pizza and beer...

[Mr. Ypsi]

Woo Boo,

I was IWU 66-70, so wasn't paying attention during MOST of your Bradley time.

Nonetheless, I woud take it as a safe guess that  (assuming your intramural team had two RECRUITED freshmen) they would finish high in the NCAC!  In those days, Bradley was a national power.

[David Collinge]

I don't think you are actually trying to insult our conference, Mr. Ypsi, by comparing our midrange teams with intramural teams at other schools, but it sure comes off like an insult.  Our girls may not be as pretty as the Rockettes, but we love 'em anyway, and we don't appreciate being told to our faces that other girls are prettier--even if they are.

[jscwittfan]

Since I've been busy trying to catch up with work after being at the HPER from 12-1 and 4-10 yesterday, just now getting back to the boards.  Figured I'd address some of the issues that have been brought up.

On "Townies": Yes, for the most part, there is somewhat of a hostile relationship between Wittenberg students and Springfield residents.  I guess there is a perception in the Springfield area that Wittenberg students are spoiled little rich kids, and a perception among Witt students that people who live in Springfield but not on the Witt campus, called "townies", are idiots and criminals.  It's pretty sad, but I guess it has been like this for a while.

On the Witt Students' "F U Wooster" chant: Scotsbrod, I thank you for trying to give Witt students the benefit of the doubt, but that was indeed the chant.  As a Wittenberg student (and a very active member in the athletic department), I was embarassed.  Not only because of what was heard in the arena, but the fact that so many people were chanting it, it actually was able to be heard (from what I've been told) in the background of our radio broadcast (was it audible in the Wooster/D3 broadcasts as well?).  Ryan Maurer, our SID, started yelling at the students from the press box to knock it off, but Garnett was nowhere in sight to do anything (which, given a few other events throughout the night, wasn't surprising).  Now, I know Witt fans know about the "S*** on Witt" chant, and were probably trying to "one-up" that chant, but it is still uncalled for.

On the Witt Fans in General: Make no mistake about it - the majority of students at the game were trashed.  I think it was easily the highest attended JV game in Wittenberg history, and the students were just as rowdy then as they were during the varsity game.  However, for as much focus is put on the expletive-laced chant later in the night, one of my favorite chants was right before the game.  Wooster started a chant of their own (which, I couldn't hear, as I was on the other side of the building), and the Witt crowd responded with "Sit Down, Shut Up!"  See, there's an example of a great chant that gets at your opponents but doesn't stoop to the level of swearing.  Of course, I was disappointed to hear rumors of fights almost breaking out between Witt and Woo fans as well, and, as was mentioned earlier, both sets of fans can be at fault for different events at different times in the game.  Doesn't make it right though.

On the Game Itself: Again, a game that was pretty close, not a blowout, and a fun game to watch.  Of course, nothing like the 3OT classic last year, but how often do we really see that?  Wooster lit it up from 3 - we all knew they were a good 3-point shooting team, but 9-12 to start the game?  NOBODY could have called that, and if they did, it would have been a lucky guess.  Wide open, hand-in-the-face, almost at half court (Cooper's 3 at the end of the half - incredible) - they couldn't miss.  And that was really the story of the game.  Russ and Borchers were close to unstoppable, but when you're trading 2s for 3s in the first half, you just dig yourself into a hole (and that was indeed the difference, as the two teams tied in the second half).  The officiating wasn't too bad - sure, a couple missed fouls or travels here and there, but nothing too extreme (except the constant stoppages to wipe up the sweat, which was out of control for a while there).  I knew what Witt's players could do, having watched them all year, but James Cooper was impressive, and Tom Port coming off of injury was stellar.  At this stage of the year, I put Cooper as my POY, with Russ 2nd, then any combination of Port, Borchers, and Brandon Miller at 3-4-5.

All-in-all, it was a fun game.  Unfortunately, if there's a rematch in the tournament finals (which I imagine there will be), I won't be able to head up, as our women moved one step closer yesterday to hosting their NCAC tournament, and I would have to be there for that.

Congratulations to Wooster, both on the win and the impending #1 slot.  I know Witt may be down about the loss, but 19-2 is still nothing to be ashamed of.

[WoosterFAN]

First in my days at Wooster the definition of townie was:  "College age resident of Wayne county that did not attend COW. i.e. There are some townies trying to get into our Phi Sigma Alpha party!  or There is a townie that is dating a freshman."  I also had frat brothers from Rittman and Orville and home cookin' came in handy on peppersteak night at Lowry!!

On the game, looking at Wooster you would have to think the biggest weakness would be against bigger, taller teams.  Wooster has basically neutralize the nation's best big team.  We are perhaps athletic enough to runa nd gun with anyone.  EVevn if there is a loss in the NCAC tourney this team could be poised for run in the post season.  Witucky not scoring, Port not health or in sync and Wooster still comes away with a win on the road.  I cannot imgaine a game where all the shooters will be off and they still can take it to basket (port and johnson).

[WoosterFAN]

Another note on townies and I will promise to let this rest.  I never thought that it was a derogatory term just a identifier.  "I am from Wooster and you are a townie" or "He is from Wooster and I am from Cincinnati going to Wooster".  I'd much rather say the former!

Also, one of best friends and frat brother named his first band after graduation: The Townies. The band had two Wooster grads and they put out three CDs in the 90s.

Does the band still play the "Are You from Wooster?" song?

[woosterbooster]

The difference between my days at school and the way things are now is that we occasionally got trashed after the games but never before or during.  Clearly, that's why you see lots of the behaviour that exists today, and it's infested many schools, not just Wittenberg.

Among the worst are Allegheny students at their home baseball games.  A large group of them stand down the right-field line, right at the fence, stocked up with coolers of beer.  If they're not ripped upon arrival, they certainly are by the end of the first contest, and remember that they play doubleheaders.  They spend the whole few hours hurling every kind of epithet imaginable at the opposing right fielder.  The last time I was up there (three years ago, I think) they also took over the area behind home plate and yelled at the Wooster catcher for five hours, mentioning, among other things, his sexual orientation and heritage.  Real classy.

The sad thing is that this is a trend that is going in the wrong direction.  It didn't exist long ago, but has come upon us mostly through kids imitating the crass behaviour of athletes on tv.  Not DIII athletes, but mostly the pros, those clowns who generally serve as the worst available role models.  I'm afraid I don't see this getting any better in the near future.