MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[WoosterBNel]

This is a change of subject. While I was intoxicated at the Witt Woo game I was getting to my seat and overheard a kid say that his high school team (North College Hill) could beat Wooster. Despite how much I hate Wooster I had to stop and call this kid a clown and slur together an argument about how Wooster or Wittenberg would not only beat North College Hill they would trounce them by 30 to 35 points. Which got me thinking outside the box a little bit about how Witt or Woo would fare against top 25 D1 teams. Lets  face it, what Woo did from behind the arc in the first half might have been one of the nastiest things I have ever seen and would put a hammer down on a lot of D1 teams, and Witt's big men could easily put double doubles on some D1 frontcourts. Is there any opinions on this?

[sac]

Wooster wouldn't have been able to get over half of their 3's off vs a top 25 D1 team.

[smedindy]

A top D-1 team? No chance.

Against the middling D-1 teams - if they have a matchup advantage and don't have a corresponding matchup weakness.

Against the bottom 100 or so? Yep.

Oh, and as far as the UW schools (or a lot of the NJ schools) - as long as they play by the rules of D-3, I have no problem with them in D-3. D-3 is probably the ideal for college athletics. It's about competition, and not about championships (which are gravy but not the be all and end all).

If a school is worried about filling up its trophy cases instead of allowing student athletes the opportunity to get the best education possible while competing in their sport then they need to go to D-1 or D-2.

[billy_pilgrim]

Hmm, I'm thinking about that Wooster v. North College Hill argument...win, yes....trounce? Not so sure.

While I know of NCH and Mayo/Walker, I have not seen them play. However, having seen Lawrence North a number of times the last few years, I think a game would be competitive.

Now, I love D-3 basketball....which I will get to more in a few moments. But, keep in mind last year's Lawrence North team with Greg Oden (national player of the year and best prep center in at least the last 15 years) and Mike Conley (soon to be D1 starting point guard). So, you have two of the top D-1 recruits in the entire nation teamed with I believe 3 or 4 other players who signed D-1 scholarships. Factor in a few bench players who probably have the skill, but neither the grades nor money to play in college and that's a fair basketball team. Now, in my mind, Wooster would certainly have an advantage on that team with better coaching (Keefer's just a recruiter  ), better depth and obviously would be stronger and more experienced.

An interesting battle I'm sure. I'd still take Wooster, but not by much. And LN would finish at least 3rd in the NCAC in my mind. I'd be intrigued to hear what others say who have seen that particular high school team play.

Now, one last comment (I swear) on women's basketball. My hatred of ESPN's Stuart Scott arises from an ESPN Magazine Q + A from a few years back when UCONN's women were undefeated national champions. Stu said that team, led by Bird and Taurasi, could beat ANY men's D-3 team. I'm sure Stu was quite a player in the IM leagues of North Carolina, but I lost all respect for him as a rational sportscaster after reading that.

[woosterbooster]

Back in the eighties, when I regularly played in doubles volleyball tournaments in California, there were various levels of play.  AAA, AA, A, etc.  The general feeling was that if a team finished in around the top 20% of a particular level they were as good as the mid-range teams at the next higher level.  The reverse, of course, was also true.  If you finished in the bottom 20% of a AA, you were in truth about an average A team.  In other words, there was quite a bit of overlap.

I don't know exactly where the numbers would fall between DI, DIII, and high school, (nobody ever mentions DII, so I won't either) but I've often wondered.  There are certainly some DI schools that the Woosters and Wittenbergs could beat on a regular basis, but probably not too many.  But there are quite a few more that they could compete with and occasionally eek out a win over.

A few years ago, I wondered how Wooster would have fared against Akron St. Vincent St. Mary with Lebron James.  I'm not at all sure, but I think the extra couple of years experience and maturity would have pulled a Wooster or Witt through against them.  But they'd probably have handled the rest of the NCAC.  In the OAC?  Maybe middle of the pack.

[smedindy]

Well, considering that those women's teams at UCONN had impeccable fundamentals, and the height adavantage wouldn't be that big, if at all, then that's not as an outlandish statement as you would think. Don't let the hate cloud you.

[smedindy]

An ultra good high school team with some blue chippers and excellent role players would probably beat a lot of D-3 teams, but not the top 1/2 or top 1/3.

[David Collinge]

The Academic All-District teams (sponsored by ESPN the Magazine) have been selected by CoSIDA, the College Sports Information Directors of America.  In District IV, Congratulations go out to Wooster's Kyle Witucky (3.62, Poli Sci) and OWU's Andy Warnock (3.93, Economics Mgmt) for being selected to the College Division first team.  By being so selected, Andy and Kyle will be on the ballot for Academic All-America honors.  OWU's Ben Chojnacki (3.50, History) was named to the second team.  Congratulations to these outstanding student-athletes!

Men's Academic All-District Teams

[billy_pilgrim]

Don't let the hate cloud you.

No. Really, I'm trying to look at the objectively. I know much of this is hypothetical, but let's reason.

Well, considering that those women's teams at UCONN had impeccable fundamentals, and the height adavantage wouldn't be that big, if at all

An ultra good high school team with some blue chippers and excellent role players would probably beat a lot of D-3 teams, but not the top 1/2 or top 1/3.

So, wait. A team with less athleticism, at least a little smaller at every position and certainly weaker at every spot would beat Wooster, while a team probably bigger at every position, with as much or more athleticism and a team that plays unparalleled defense would lose to the Scots?

Fundamentals mean a lot. But there's certainly a reason that Lawrence North spanked Muncie Central (the most fundamental team that I saw all year) in the title game last season.

[AndersDY]

One interesting note for a discussion of D1-D3, it's been tried this year:

Illinois 82, Illinois Wesleyan 60

That was played at Illinois' place which isn't a friendly environment, but the box score indicates Dee Brown was the only starter with more than 20 minutes played and the starters only had 43 of those 82 points, so Illinois wasn't doing everything they could for a blow out.

Just one trial and that was the opener for IWU, so take it for what it's worth.

[woosterbooster]

I think that if a DIII men's team of Wooster's caliber played the best DI women's team ever (and you can take your choice who that would be), and the DIII men's was able to stay motivated for 40 minutes, the final would be in the neighborhood of 140-15.  Maybe worse.  The ladies would have a heckuva time getting the ball upcourt, getting off shots, and getting any boards.  If Wooster played their own women's team, it might be a shutout if they could avoid fouling.

[goscots]

OldWittfan

I haven't looked back at old posts, but I really can't recall anyone bashing coach Brown this year. Is there still a link to the coach Brown article?  I'd like to read it.  I think Wittenberg and Wooster are very lucky to have their current coaches.

[WoosterBNel]

An interesting battle I'm sure. I'd still take Wooster, but not by much. And LN would finish at least 3rd in the NCAC in my mind. I'd be intrigued to hear what others say who have seen that particular high school team play.

Our intramural team would finish 3rd in the NCAC 

[David Collinge]

OldWittfan

I haven't looked back at old posts, but I really can't recall anyone bashing coach Brown this year. Is there still a link to the coach Brown article?  I'd like to read it.  I think Wittenberg and Wooster are very lucky to have their current coaches.

I completely agree with you, goscots.  Steve Moore and Bill Brown are both credits to this conference.  While the Brown-bashing in here has been less prominent this year than in years past, he did take some unwarranted heat over the James Cooper/Witt Admissions thing.  That discussion started right about here.

[earlhamalum]

You can take Uconn Woman's ALL-Time best and I don't think they would be a half decent D3 team.  I respect Women's basketball and the way they have improved over the years.  LOBO, BIRD, Taurasi,Cash couldn't even come close to Wooster... heck has much as it pains me to say I think Hiram would even have a shot at beating them.   

(speaking of Hiram.... where is the talk from the little puppies... are they in their Cage?)

Earlham Controls where they play on the 21st...  If they Beat OWU, DEN, Oberlin... They host... bottom line, cut a dry.

Billy_pilgram.. what are the Vegas ODDS?