MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[zosobob]

I don't think any Wooster fan will EVER root for Witt.
And vice versa.

[zosobob]

Us old people do come out for the games and i wish the students would come out more often, instead of just the Witt games.

But, we do come out for the away games too.

Chadwick is the loudest for home support, i think.

[zosobob]

I caught the ODAC semi-finals on streaming video today.(Great games)
The final is on tomorrow(Monday) at 7, if anyone is interested.

[Hoops MacPherson]

I am amused that some Wooster fans are complaining about "hometown officiating" at OWU. OWU shot 28 foul shots, Wooster 27.

Now you know how the bottom eight of the league feels most every time they play witt or woo; coach moore comes out of the coaching box to protest a call at the end of the earlham game (he was down past center court), doesn't get a technical, and they win; he carps at refs, even when he's up 30.

these things happen on the road. get over it.

[hoopsfan1111]

Now you know how the bottom eight of the league feels most every time they play witt or woo; coach moore comes out of the coaching box to protest a call at the end of the earlham game (he was down past center court), doesn't get a technical, and they win; he carps at refs, even when he's up 30.

these things happen on the road. get over it.

I have to say you are off base about Coach Moore here.  He does no more talking to the officials than any other coach in the NCAC, and I have seen every single coach this season.  As for "he carps at refs" when up 30...why should a team not get calls they deserve just because they are up by 30 points.  I don't recall ever seeing a rule that says that if you are winning by a certain amount that officials should stop calling the game fairly and correctly according to the rule book.  Just something to think about...

Also, I think the amount of complaining about the officials at OWU was within reason, no over the top comments like those that can occur at times.  In my opinion, the Wooster fans did a nice job of giving an accurate description of the game and also gave a fair amount of congratulations to OWU for the win. 

[wally_wabash]

Wooster and Witt fans don't get to gripe about the officiating in this league.  Period.  It may have been bad yesterday for the Scots.  It may have been fair.  I don't know.  What I do know, is that in the majority of games, Wooster and Witt get the benefit of the doubt.  The iffy calls go their way more often than not.  That's a fact of life in the NCAC.  

Why worry about it so much anyway?  Yesterday's game was 100% meaningless to Wooster.  Losing that game won't affect their seeding in the NCAC tournament and it won't affect their seeding in the NCAA tournament.  Wooster was playing for absolutely nothing yesterday.  I'm actually quite surprised at the number of minutes Wooster's heavy hitters played yesterday...especially given Wooster's brushes with injuries during the regular season.  I don't think I would have risked having the guys that will make or break my NCAA run playing 30+ minutes in a game that meant zip.  

[fighting_scots]

Hey Hoops--welcome to the board.

Win over 500 games, and you can feel free to criticize Coach Moore.  I don't think there is a single poster on this board that will criticize him--he's a great coach, and a class guy.

With that being said, he does the talking for his team--a consummate team leader.  Down by 2 or up by 40, his men are on the floor giving the effort that he expects--100% all the time.  And when those bench players who are playing hard are fouled, and the refs play the "sympathy" card and don't call it, he get's upset--like any great team leader would.  And he let's the officials know about it.

This is a place where the fans call it the way they see it.  Your shallow comments only reflect upon your understanding of the game.

[Hoops MacPherson]

you got it; i disagree with you, therefore i am shallow and don't understand the game.

[smedindy]

I think Moore and Brown get a little more room with the NCAC refs on arguing with them because of who they are and who they coach. Just the way it is...

[jscwittfan]

Yesterday's game was 100% meaningless to Wooster.  Losing that game won't affect their seeding in the NCAC tournament and it won't affect their seeding in the NCAA tournament.  Wooster was playing for absolutely nothing yesterday.

I agree with you Wally, on every point except one.  Wooster did have one thing to play for: only the third perfect NCAC season in Wooster's history.  Now, most will say things like this are trivial, but you know it has to be at least in the back of everyone's minds.  Plus, Wittenberg and Wooster both have 2 perfect NCAC seasons, and you know the Scots would love to pull ahead of Witt in that category.

As for Wittenberg, they looked as sharp as I have seen them all year on Saturday.  They shot over 70% in the second half, and their free throw shooting was better than it has been in recent weeks as well (12-16).  A nice rebound from the loss on Wednesday.  If they can keep that level of play up, I see no reason they can't win the conference tournament.

That said, I think Tuesday will be a bit of a blowout victory for the Tigers (but only because of the home court advantage) and Wooster (poor Kenyon having to play them after a loss...), and then things get fun over the weekend.  After what we have seen in the past week (with Witt's loss to Wabash and Wooster's loss to OWU), I think that the top four seeds all have a realistic shot at winning.  However, Wooster and Witt still have to be the favorites, as for either Wabash/OWU to win, they would most likely have to knock off both teams, and I just can't see that happening.

[Gregory Sager]

The old cliche about how hard it is to beat a team 3 times in a season usually rings true.

On the contrary, it makes no sense at all ... and the fact that it's been repeated so often that it has become a cliche doesn't make it any more true.

If you beat a team twice, it's a pretty good bet that you have their number, and that you are and should be the favorite going into the third game. A sweep tends to identify a talent gap between two teams more often than not, especially if there's a substantial MOV involved in at least one of the games. Plus, it's more likely that the two-time victim enters the third game psychologically intimidated than that the two-time victor enters the game nervous about having to pull it off for the third time.

If the wins were exceptionally narrow, it's different. F'rinstance, Illinois Wesleyan faces Augustana in the first round of the inaugural CCIW tourney this coming Friday. Augie swept Illinois Wesleyan in the CCIW's double round-robin, but they won the first game by only three points and the second game went into overtime. If Illinois Wesleyan manages to beat Augie in the third game between the two, it won't be because of that silly "it's hard to beat a team three times" cliche. It'll be because the margin between the two teams is already so narrow that it's quite possible Illinois Wesleyan can win on their own merits.

[woosterbooster]

If the wins were exceptionally narrow, it's different.

Exactly.

That's the problem with so many cliches and general statements, they oversimplifiy.  If a team has beaten another twice, and by substantial margins each time, you can pretty much bet the farm that they'll do it again (see Wooster-Kenyon).  But if the games were very close, such as the two between Wooster and Wittenberg, that only indicates the relative equalness of the teams, and that the third game is very likely to be a nail-biter as well.  I'd make the Scots the narrowest of favorites if they meet Wittenberg in the NCAC finals, but only due to having the home court advantage.

[Gregory Sager]

I'd make the Scots the narrowest of favorites if they meet Wittenberg in the NCAC finals, but only due to having the home court advantage.

Agreed. But Scots Fan used the cliche as commentary upon a possible Wittenberg vs. Ohio Wesleyan semifinal. It seems to me that such a matchup would be a clear illustration of why the cliche isn't valid. The Tigers won their two games against the Bishops by margins of 17 points (@ Wittenberg) and 12 points (@ Ohio Wesleyan). The first game was never even close; the Tigers had a double-digit lead for all but the first six minutes of the game, and they extended it to as much as 20 in the second half. The second game was somewhat closer, no doubt because it took place on the Bishops' home floor, but nevertheless the Tigers were in the lead for all but the first three minutes of the game, led by as many as 15 in the second half, and never let the host Bishops get within two possessions of them in the final 15 minutes of the game.

All the available evidence points to Wittenberg being a clearly superior team to Ohio Wesleyan, and a possible semifinal between the two would most likely be a perfect illustration of the hollowness of the "it's hard to beat a team three times" cliche.

[woosterbooster]

And there's also the match-up consideration. 

OWU matchs up pretty well against Wooster in that they were able to post up inside and score against the Scots.  I haven't seen them play Witt, but I'd suspect that the Russ-Borchers combination would make that tactic a much tougher go.  Still, OWU-Witt three is a game that I'm interested in seeing since OWU has impressed me twice with their poise and shooting ability.  Witt is surely a clear favorite, but I give OWU a puncher's chance.

[Gregory Sager]

Witt is surely a clear favorite, but I give OWU a puncher's chance.

Yeah, "a puncher's chance" sounds to me like a much more apt way to characterize the possibility of a Bishops upset of the Tigers than the "it's hard to beat a team three times" cliche.