MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[TigerFan_1973]

A meet and greet sounds good.  Although I can hardly stand CoW, I have tremendous respect for their athletics and fans.  I'm sure we could have some interesting conversation over a sub and a few cocktails.

I can't make it before the game but I would like to meet D3Hoops people at halftime.  How about just outside the door to the gym at the end of the first half?  I will make a sign. 

I look forward to meeting you.

TigerFan_1973

[TigerFan_1973]

Meanwhile, away from the glamour and excitement that is Springfield in December...the Little Giants have an important tournament tonight and tomorrow.

They draw Cincy Clermont tonight, who is having a good year, and then take on either Olivet Nazarene or Marian tomorrow. It will be a stern test for the LGs.

I have to ask about this.  I live in Cincinnati Ohio and UC Clermont is a two-year branch of the University of Cincinnati.  Does that count as a real game?

Similarly with OSU-Marion in the big blowout last week.

Thanks for any light you can shed on this question.

TigerFan_1973

[woosterbooster]

Are you saying that OSU-Marion is a two-year school?  Holy cow, what on earth was Lincoln doing scheduling them at all?

[tigerup07]

Alright, so we know Witt-Woo is a big game. But just how big? I know this is an NCAC board, but I figured it would be an interesting perspective from this board. Is there a bigger rivalry game in all of Div II basketball, if not all of D3 sports? Not only just how much the schools get into it but the even nature of the matchup every year as well... I guess I'm saying that it's not like the Browns-Steelers rivalry has become (with the Browns not having a chance the last few years).

According to Wooster's pregame notes:
"On Saturday night, Dec. 9, Wittenberg and Wooster will go toe-to-toe once again in one of the best, if not the best, rivalry game in NCAA Div. III basketball. They are currently the two all-time winningest programs in Div. III, as the Tigers sport a 1542-613 record (.716) and the Scots stand at 1426-739 (.659). This week's game will mark the 89th meeting between the two Ohio foes, with Wittenberg holding a 48-40 edge. Incredibly, 36, or 40.9 percent of Wittenberg-Wooster games have been decided by five points or less, including 16 of the last 33, and that doesn't even include the classic triple-overtime game on Feb. 12, 2005....Also noteworthy, the Fighting Scots and Tigers have won/shared the NCAC regular season championship each of the last 18 seasons, and they've combined to win all but two NCAC Tournament titles during that span. "

And from the Witt pre-game notes:
"Also, of note, this will be the fifth time in the last seven seasons that one of the two teams has been ranked No. 1 nationally entering the game. Amazingly, the homestanding No. 1 squad has lost in each instance"

Where else can you find such a nationally important game that also has the watermark of a classic rivalry? I've never heard of it in D3 sports, but I was hoping someone else may have... honestly, I'm a little bit confounded by how this game doesn't get more front page coverage on D3hoops.com. But maybe it's just me...

[petewitt54]

I can remember Witt's JV team playing OSU-Marion during one of my four seasons.  Thats why I just laughed off Lincoln's video game victory.

I can't make the game tonight, I'm in Houston, TX for work and its killing me.  I'll be watching on the internet for sure, but I would have loved to put faces with names.  I was picturing an Animal House-esque food fight as soon as I walked into Mike and Rosy's.  Makes me laugh just thinking about it.

Good luck tonight boys, I'll be getting noise complaints for you.

GO TIGERS!

[WooMix]

Now, today being a big game day, I envy all of you who will be at the HPER.  How I wish I could be there to cheer our Fighting Scots with you all.

Once a Fighting Scot, always a Fighting Scot!  Go Scots!!!

[kiltedbryan]

Are you saying that OSU-Marion is a two-year school?  Holy cow, what on earth was Lincoln doing scheduling them at all?

Lincoln drew OSU-Marion after they lost the first game in a tournament.  Lincoln didn't schedule OSU-Marion...they played the consolation game of a tournament, and Lincoln wasn't the host for the tourney so they weren't the ones who invited OSU-Marion, either, I believe.

[TigerFan_1973]

Are you saying that OSU-Marion is a two-year school?  Holy cow, what on earth was Lincoln doing scheduling them at all?

That's what I was saying.  This appears to be a bit of a trend (if two makes a trend) of two-year branches in tournaments with D3 teams.

Wabash is playing in that tournament with UC-Clermont which is a branch of University of Cincinnati that typically offers two-year programs.

I'm going to post a message for Ralph tomorrow to see if these games count for tournament rating purposes.

Please excuse me, now, as I am leaving for the big city of Springfield and the Wittenberg - Wooster game.

I guess this will be a homecoming for James Cooper of Wooster.

GO TIGERS!

TigerFan_1973

[sac]

TigerUp07-----With all due respect to Witt/Wooster I'd look into Hope/Calvin from Michigan..........untill two other schools can get 11,500 people in an arena for basketball everyone's playing for second.    ESPN did a whole show on best hoops rivalries and Hope/Calvin was #4 overall.  No other D3 rivalry made the list.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/therivalry/

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/therivalry/rivalry.html

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/mbb/0506hopecalvingallery.html


Woo/Witt is without a doubt a great rivalry but its a baby in terms of # of games played and length of time when compared to other rivalries.

There's Amherst/Williams, DePauw/Wabash and many many others.  It would be in the group fighting for second.

[m m b]

Today's New York Times has a good article on the Lincoln/OSU-Marion game.  Apparently, OSU-M was invited to the tournament only three days before the game as a replacement for Wayne State, who dropped out.  So, Lincoln had no control over scheduling OSU-M and probably thought the tournament field would include a D2 school. 

[goscots]

Sac is absolutely correct - Hope-Calvin is #1 by a long shot. Having grown up along the eastern Lake Michigan coast line I have known and seen this intense rivalry long before I came to Ohio. Wooster-Witt is growing to a level to rival Hope/Calvin with the consistent top level of play each school performs to, along with the community support/identity they receive, but they ain't there yet.

[tigerup07]

Ok, that's what I was looking for. Good to know. Hope/Calvin are perennial powerhouses who (unbeknownst to me) have a heated rivarly. So they're rivalry has a huge national impact and as well the pure rivalry factor. I'd agree that Witt/Woo is developing into something big, as long as both schools can sustain the development of their programs long enough to earn the reputations that Hope and Calvin already have. But oh man is it fun watching this rivalry get bigger and bigger every year.

[Ralph Turner]

Alright, so we know Witt-Woo is a big game. But just how big? I know this is an NCAC board, but I figured it would be an interesting perspective from this board. Is there a bigger rivalry game in all of Div II basketball, if not all of D3 sports? Not only just how much the schools get into it but the even nature of the matchup every year as well... I guess I'm saying that it's not like the Browns-Steelers rivalry has become (with the Browns not having a chance the last few years).

According to Wooster's pregame notes:
"On Saturday night, Dec. 9, Wittenberg and Wooster will go toe-to-toe once again in one of the best, if not the best, rivalry game in NCAA Div. III basketball. They are currently the two all-time winningest programs in Div. III, as the Tigers sport a 1542-613 record (.716) and the Scots stand at 1426-739 (.659). This week's game will mark the 89th meeting between the two Ohio foes, with Wittenberg holding a 48-40 edge. Incredibly, 36, or 40.9 percent of Wittenberg-Wooster games have been decided by five points or less, including 16 of the last 33, and that doesn't even include the classic triple-overtime game on Feb. 12, 2005....Also noteworthy, the Fighting Scots and Tigers have won/shared the NCAC regular season championship each of the last 18 seasons, and they've combined to win all but two NCAC Tournament titles during that span. "

And from the Witt pre-game notes:
"Also, of note, this will be the fifth time in the last seven seasons that one of the two teams has been ranked No. 1 nationally entering the game. Amazingly, the homestanding No. 1 squad has lost in each instance"

Where else can you find such a nationally important game that also has the watermark of a classic rivalry? I've never heard of it in D3 sports, but I was hoping someone else may have... honestly, I'm a little bit confounded by how this game doesn't get more front page coverage on D3hoops.com. But maybe it's just me...

tigerup07, Pat Coleman came to Texas last weekend for 10 games and 8 schools/16 teams on 5 days, the Tour de Tejas.  The attraction for this trip was that five of the 16 teams that he saw were ranked in pre-season polls.  The feature game was the intra-city rivalry between McM at Hardin-Simmons on Monday night. 

The HSU women were ranked #9; McMurry #14.  The Cowgirls and McMurry Women played before 1728 fans!  I looked at the Witt 2006 women's basketball archives and saw that the Woo and Witt Ladies played before 264 fans at Wooster and before 502 fans at Witt.  I anticipate that the return trip to McMurry in January, as the Abilene Kiwanis Club Charity Games, will draw more than 2000 fans as it did in 2005.   McMurry and HSU women played four times in 2000, home and home, ASC tourney and in the Sweet 16. Last year they played home and home and in the first round of the NCAA's.  How would you feel if Witt and Woo played in the first round of the men's NCAA's?

Pat commented that the fervor of the intra-city rival in Abilene is not found in Wilkes PA, New London CT or Northfield MN.  Listen to Pat's last second call of the HSU-McM men's game.  HSU and McMurry men will also compete for the ASC-West title.

The nature of the various rivalries around the country is like a closet of fine wines or a showroom of expensive sports cars.  Each is different and special for its own reasons.

Hope-Calvin is the best rivalry.

McMurry-Hardin-Simmons may be the best intra-city rivary, all sports.
Witt-Woo especially men's basketball,
Monon Bell -- DePauw-Wabash -- football
Cortaca Jug -- Ithaca and Cortland State --football
Williams Amherst -- all-sports
The various Dutch shoe games...

Witt/Woo will be on the front page later in the season.  We D3 fans loved to follow that one.

[goscots]

I was watching ESPN earlier this week and they were showing the 10 ten football rivalries. I can't recall the exact list and order (OSU-Michigan was #2 and Alabama-Auburn was #1). At the end of the show they showed the consolation list which included Wabash-DePauw. The narrative was "These two schools just flat out hate each other"....

[Li'l Giant]

At the end of the show they showed the consolation list which included Wabash-DePauw. The narrative was "These two schools just flat out hate each other"....

And you Witt guys think Wally hates you? Ha! You're like a brand-new puppy compared to Depauw.