MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[wooscotsfan]

Witt-Woo game article from the Springfield News-Sun:
http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/college/wittenberg/2006/12/09/snssp121006wittgamer.html

GO SCOTS!

[imderekpoe]

Wooster was shooting the one and one at the 9:34 mark while Wooster being only "called" with 3 fouls at the same time period.  Fair? I guess it only depends on your perspective. 

"Fair" has nothing to do with how many fouls were called against each team or who was in the bonus.  "Fair" is calling the game the same way on both ends, and making the same calls consistently throughout the game.

In the first half Borchers was able to get the ball down low, back into any number of Scot defenders and get a foul called.  In the 2nd half, it didn't seem like Borchers was as aggressive toward the bucket, thus fewer fouls.

[tigerup07]

As for Wittenberg being garbage... I don't even think I need to make a comment specifically in response to that. We all know that Wooster and Wittenberg are essentially the same school in different locations (but Wittenberg's got the edge on campus aesthetics, I think). Funny story, Wittenberg was started as a small college in the city of Wooster, Ohio, in 1845, but moved to Springfield after only a year. Even in 1845 Wittenberg students, administration, and faculty couldn't stand to be in Wooster.

And as for the fouls to the eye and the dirty play Witt supposedly used, the only times I saw anything that might be considered dirty was in scrambles for loose balls. There's a rule in the books that even the refs I don't think know about... it summarily states that loose balls are fair game for either team, and players have the right to use whatever physical means to obtain the ball, as long as those means are not specifically intended to injure an opposing player. The refs called fouls on Wittenberg during loose ball scrambles that any learned ref would've kept quiet on. Then when Wittenberg had obviously won other scrambles and a Wooster player just decides to lay his hands all over the Witt player who has the ball, they call it a jump ball... mysteriously this only seemed to happen when possession was for Wooster. Overall, the refs just didn't know what they were doing. And it hurt both teams. Once again, the NCAC has proven to have horrible officiating.... we all know it, let's leave it be.

I know I made fun of Wooster earlier in this post, but that's simply tit for tat for the garbage comment. I'd prefer that the university which has been home to 24 of my relatives including my father, mother, aunts, uncles, grandparents, greatgrandparents, and now me for 4 of the best years of my life (brief as it may be so far) be called garbage because you didn't want to pony up $8 for a game which you obviously thought wasn't worth as much as a men's game. I refer you to Title IX...

[woosterbooster]

We all know that Wooster and Wittenberg are essentially the same school in different locations.

Huh?  Maybe Wittenberg students would like to believe that, but you won't find a single member of the COW community who would react to that statement with anything but a loud laugh.

Funny story, Wittenberg was started as a small college in the city of Wooster, Ohio, in 1845, but moved to Springfield after only a year. Even in 1845 Wittenberg students, administration, and faculty couldn't stand to be in Wooster.

No, after a year Wooster had had enough of them and threw them out on their ear.

I didn't want to spend $8 for the women's game because A) that's too much to charge for any DIII basketball game, men's or women's and B) it so obviously should have been considered part of the three-game package.

Few people spend more money on women's sporting events than I do, and I've never had a problem with the ticket prices at any other school.  Virtually all of them, when having a women's/men's event in the same time frame, link the two games to one admission price, that of the men's game.  In tournament situations, there is always an all-day pass of 5 or 6 bucks.  This is the first time I've ever encountered having to pay $16 in this manner at a DIII instutition, and I think it's incredibly lame.

Sorry to hear that none of your family members could get into a better school.

[jscwittfan]

We all know that Wooster and Wittenberg are essentially the same school in different locations.

Huh?  Maybe Wittenberg students would like to believe that, but you won't find a single member of the COW community who would react to that statement with anything but a loud laugh.

Unfortunately, John, I have to disagree with you on that one.  Wittenberg and Wooster are very much different schools.  Especially academically.  Just ask James Cooper about his ACT scores and what Wittenberg thought of them in comparison to Wooster.

Sorry to hear that none of your family members could get into a better school.

Whether you're just defending your school or not, that is an absolute asshole thing to say.  At least we don't go to a school where the home team for some sports trash the visitor's locker room with dirty diapers hanging in each locker and that oh-so-famous "**** on Witt" written all over the walls of the room.  Now THAT's a classy institution.  (and by the way, yes, there was a Wooster team that did that this season)

[petewitt54]

Well, well, well, the truth comes out.  Mr. Wooster Booster hates Wittenberg.  ANd I thought we were all about respect for the last couple days. 

You really think Witt plays dirty?  Was this a big rivalry game?  Sure it is.  Were kids diving all over the floor?  I could see it on the internet.  I didn't see what happened do Vandervaart, but no one was trying to hurt him.  There is never, ever a word spoken of dirty play in Witt's program.  Physical play? Absolutely.  Does Wooster play physical?  Yes.  When to teams are playing hard and physical basketball, is someone going to get popped in the nose?  Most likely. 

Are you really inferring that Witt has something to do with the refs?  Honestly.  Is someone playing puppet master with D3 officials?  Do you know something I don't?  NCAC refs are notoriously bad, and don't call the game consistently.  Sometimes Witt will have and advantage, and sometimes Wooster will. 

Everything you have whined about is out of the fans control.  The ticket prices, the refs, and the "dirty" play.  Oh, and you disparaged my alma mater.  Thanks.  I love having people tell me where I came from is worthless. 

Oh and good one about Wooster throwing Witt out in 1845.  Thats an issue that EVERYONE is still talking about. 

Anyway, Witt showed me somethings last night.  1) The defense is tough.  2) they can step up in big games.  3)  Late mistakes are still a problem. 

They did a better job not playing hard the whole game.  They had been so up and down in their effort, turning it on and off, but if you can't play hard for 40 min against Wooster, then clean out your locker.  I hope Gregg Hill can keep his offensive momentum, as it relives pressure and double teams from Dane. 

[David Collinge]

I think I may take a couple of days off from this room. 

[wooscotsfan]

Perhaps, we should all remember that the NCAC is a great conference with 10 schools that have both strong academics and excellent sports programs.

The NCAC will be an even classier conference if we (all NCAC fans) show the proper respect for the other 9 schools.

Poor officiating, high ticket prices for womens' games and aggressive play on the hardwood are not good reasons to question the quality or integrity of another NCAC school.

How about some "peace and goodwill to others" during this holiday season?

[Li'l Giant]

Can't we all just get along?

[ScotsFan]

With most everyone's thoughts and feelings being already shown, I thought I'd weigh in on some of the opinions being offered on last night's classic:

However, if Wooster wants to make a run nationally this year, they HAVE to improve their interior defense.  Borchers, Hemenway, and even Mark Huelsman pounded it at will down low - I'm just shocked the Tigers didn't go inside more than they did.

Also, if anybody from the NCAC is reading this, PLEASE find better officiating crews.  There were numerous just downright terrible calls made for/against both teams tonight, and it really left a bitter taste in my mouth after what was a great game from all the players.  No wonder as soon as Jack's final 3 went out the officials sprinted - not walked, not jogged, but sprinted - off the court.

I don't think it was a matter of Wooster needing to improve their interior defense.  It was a matter of the poor officiating blowing their whistles on Wooster's post players for breathing too hard on the Witt players.  Heck, Vandervaart  suffers a bloody nose and still gets whistled for a foul.  And then, after being saddled with foul trouble they basically had to lay off ginving Borchers and Hemenway free reign in the post.  I'm in agreement that the officiating was equally poor for both sides.  I don't think either team gained an advantage by the poor officiating shown last night, although Vandervaart and Port's extended time on the bench because of the whistle happy refs didn't hurt Witt in their bid for the upset.

ok guys i know you've been waiting for my opinions on the game so here they are
- i think witt and wooster had some big time guys step up-gregg hill, hemingway and borchers for witt played tremendous-hemingway was huge when we need him to be.

Yeah, and without them stepping up like they did who knows how bad Wooster could have poured it on.  The 3 players you mentioned scored 56 of Witt's 65 points last night.   To say those 3 guys kept Witt in the game is the understatement of all understatements.

one more thing-wooster fans-"**** on witt" come on why do u have to end the game on a sour note after a hard fought game between the two teams-talk about us being classy???

I totally agree.  I cringe every time I hear that chant being started and my thought is, can't you guys come up with a little more class and ori. than that???  Unfortunately, it's just something I'm afraid we're stuck with.

Oh and good one about Wooster throwing Witt out in 1845.  Thats an issue that EVERYONE is still talking about. 

Actually, pete, it was tigerup who brought up the whole 1845 thing:

Funny story, Wittenberg was started as a small college in the city of Wooster, Ohio, in 1845, but moved to Springfield after only a year. Even in 1845 Wittenberg students, administration, and faculty couldn't stand to be in Wooster.

One final thought, after reading the article of the game from the Springfield fish wrap, I found it funny that Witt were the ones that felt they let one slip away.  How do you think Wooster would have felt had they lost having let a 10 point lead evaporate over the last 4 minutes of the game?  Personally, Witt was more on the verge of stealing a victory than letting one slip away...

Oh and I agree with wsf in that the NCAC is a conference that was founded on academics.  Every institution in the NCAC has a proud academic heritage to stand on.  The athletic prowess of certain schools in the conference may not be equal, but academically speaking, they are all top notch.  It's not like comparing Ohio State and Michigan here... 8)

[Witt4ever]

I think 'modify' only appears after some minimum number of posts.

I guess I'll keep posting up and see where the magical number is.

And/or email Pat to restore my previous Post Up name:witt4ever

After last night more than ever,
w4e

[Witt4ever]

Here is something to read to keep things into perspective:

http://zeke.phpnet.us/wittbb.html

[TigerFan_1973]

Here is something to read to keep things into perspective:

http://zeke.phpnet.us/wittbb.html

I enjoyed this article.  It's pretty cool that they got together like that.  That seems to be what D3 basketball should be about, particularly with schools of rich tradition, including sports, academics, and religious background.

I also read the story in the NY Times about the Lincoln - OSU- Marion game.
Marion only had five guys.  I'm not sure what I think about that score now.  I read the comments of both coaches.  I suspect that the game got beyond the Lincoln coach's control at some point.  I think maybe the coach had a better sense of sportsmanship than some of his players did.

I just got out here on the board and there is a lot to go through.

The game was great.  **** on Witt was not necessary.  This is probably more upsetting from a sportsmanship view than the Lincoln thing.

I think there will be a great rematch in Wooster this winter.  Perhaps more in the tournament season ...

TigerFan_1973

[TigerFan_1973]

I think I may take a couple of days off from this room. 

Yeah, me too.  Things seem a little harsh today.

[tigerup07]

Sorry for getting upset everyone. As I've said before, I have a longstanding family tradition at Wittenberg and I genuinely love the school and I am going to be extremely sad to leave after I graduate in 6 months. I felt directly provoked by a couple comments and when that happens my typically swelled pride kicks into overdrive and I tend to be easily angered. Combine that with losing at home to our biggest rival for the third straight time and that's what you get.

But anyway, on to better and brighter things. Witt has a nice long break, as does Wooster, and I can't wait to see how the rest of conference play goes before our rematch. I will definitely be in Wooster the weekend that Witt visits (and the second weekend that Witt visits for the playoffs). I will be my fraternity's Pledge Educator and I am going to make the trip to Wooster a pledge event! It will be a good game and the Athletic Director at Witt always does a good job to get students excited but he also tries to make sure the students are well behaved (and the Wooster police department gets in on that aspect too, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms).

My trips to Wooster, as much as the rivalry is heated, are always enjoyable and I really look forward to it. Wittenberg and Wooster were the two schools I was down to when college came around. They were both equally prestigious academically and both campuses were beautiful, and when you get right down to it the factors were all equal, and Wittenberg won because of my family history. My friends that went to Wooster seem to be enjoying themselves as much as we Witt students do (as well as agreeing with me that the schools are very comparable, without laughing). Both schools deserve respect, and I love the rivalry. Good luck to both!