MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

Started by WoosterFAN, January 27, 2005, 10:51:56 AM

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woosterbooster

Prior to their last 4 games, Wooster had made 101 of 119 free throws, for a very excellent .849 percentage.  Since then, the Scots have gone 53 for 83, a horrible .639.

Cedarville: 18-27
Pomona-Pitzer: 6-14
California Baptist: 7-11
ONU: 22-31

Who knows what to make of that?  Certainly they practice free throws, but they're definitely not going in, and if this continues so will problems against tough opponents.

David Collinge

I thought the officiating was practically non-observable in the first half, which is the way you want it.  There were a lot more whistles in the second half, but the play was a lot more physical as well (witness Fulk's astonishing [to me] throw-down).  After the intentional foul and the huddle, the refs called a tighter game, but I don't blame them for that.  Were there some questionable calls?  Sure, but there's no getting around that.  I thought Port's fourth foul (charging) was called the wrong way, but charging/blocking is rarely an obvious call.   The ref was right on top of it, and I defer to his judgment.  As others have noted, it wasn't Port's finest hour, so having him sit with 4 fouls was not necessarily a bad thing (although he is perhaps our most skilled rebounder, so it probably hurt in that regard.)  Vandervaart was the beneficiary on a couple of other charging/blocking calls that could have gone either way.

It was a great game between two teams that deserve their top 10 rankings.  Both teams had their chances to win, both did some things well and other things not so well.  The refs were not decisive, in my opinion.  The intensity was high, the atmosphere was great, at times I almost felt like it was another Woo/Witt game (without the unsportsmanlike conduct by the fans).  I'm glad I was there.

Pat Coleman

The pair of neutral observers at center court saw the Port charge a little differently. Hostetler only bowled into Port from behind BECAUSE Hunter stood in and took the charge, slowing Port down.

I thought it was actually a well-officiated game.

If I missed something, other than the flop two seconds earlier, that "led to" Fulk shoving the ONU player, then I also missed it on the TV tape delay airing last night, which I stumbled across on the local cable in the hotel here.
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ScotsFan

Quote from: David Collinge on December 30, 2006, 11:58:51 AM
(witness Fulk's astonishing [to me] throw-down). 
While I'm not defending Fulk's rather surprising throwdown of that ONU player, I think Fulk was the victim of being the retaliator in that circumstance.  That ONU player was all over Fulk right before that incident and even flopped to the floor to try and draw a foul and when he got up, he got all over Devin once again and Devin just kind of pushed him aside and the kid flopped again drawing the intentional foul from Devin.  Fulk let his emotions get in the way of better judgement in that instance. 

I will  give the Northern kids some credit.  They were good actors.  My brother-in-law coaches soccer and played at the COW and he commented on how one of the Northern players or coaches must have a soccer background because of how they came out doing soccer warmups.  When Badenhop flopped drawing that charge on Cooper I said to him, "He must be the soccer player!" ;)

seinfeld

Pat,

With all due respect, your comment about Port's charge makes  no sense. You basically admit that he was hit from behind. So that's a foul on ONU.  How is it a foul on Port? Are you saying that it is OK to hit a player from behind while shooting because one of his teammates is  holding his ground in front of him? It matters what contact comes first, and in this case, Port was hammered from behind before the charge (which looking from the photo on the home page of this site, the guy taking the charge already starting shifting his body).

I talked to several people who all agreed that was one of the worst officiated halves of basketball they have ever seen. If that is good officiating, I hate to see what it must be like in the rest of the country. We won't even talk about the one official calling continuation baskets that might not have even been called in the NBA.

If you can predict (as I and another person I talked to did) how the officials would make a series of make-up calls after the Port foul, then you know the officials are amatuers.

wooscotsfan

#4430
Quote from: seinfeld on December 30, 2006, 01:41:09 PM

I talked to several people who all agreed that was one of the worst officiated halves of basketball they have ever seen.

Seinfeld - you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I am going to agree with David and Pat on the officiating being reasonable last night and giving no advantage to either team in this game.

Take a serious look why Wooster lost -- they got outplayed:
ONU shot 49%; Woo shot 44%
ONU had 43 boards; Woo only had 29 boards (from final box score)
ONU only missed 5 free throws; Woo missed 9 throws (4 point swing right there)

As far as Port's 4th foul for charging, Tom made a big mistake by driving the lane hard when he already had 3 fouls.  ONU's big guy, Michael Hunter, was already in the lane and Port made contact with him.  Don't put yourself in that position where it is up to the ref to decide a block or a charge that results in your 4th foul.  Instead, Port should have pulled up for the 10 footer or swung the ball to a teammate.

Let's see Wooster bounce back vs. Calvin!

GO SCOTS!

David Collinge

Some folks think Port charged into Hunter.
Some folks think Hunter was not set.
Some folks think Hostetler was over the back before Port ran into Hunter.

The official, who I again emphazise was closer to the play than any of us and had an unobstructed view, selected one of these three possible outcomes.  I can't see how this is evidence that the officiating was poor.

Witt4ever

Quote from: David Collinge on December 30, 2006, 02:12:03 PM
Some folks think Port charged into Hunter.
Some folks think Hunter was not set.
Some folks think Hostetler was over the back before Port ran into Hunter.

The official, who I again emphazise was closer to the play than any of us and had an unobstructed view, selected one of these three possible outcomes.  I can't see how this is evidence that the officiating was poor.

because Wooster  lost. ;D

seinfeld

wooscotsfan

I actually think Coach Moore should have benched Port for the rest of the game, so that he couldn't pick up his 4th or 5th foul. Or at least he should have told him to just hang around the 3-point line and try not to make contact with anyone.

To me, the referees recognized their bad call against Port, as they called five fouls on ONU in the next three minutes in an attempt to make up for it, including a phantom call against Gehle on a breakaway against Will.

So people don't imply, like often happens on this board, I'm not saying the officials cost Wooster the game. Poor rebounding, key turnovers, missed shots cost Wooster the game. That is a separate argument from poor officiating. Or maybe the referees never have a bad game ...

WoosterFAN

Every year, I ponder the 'good loss' question.  Is there such a thing as a good loss?  No doubt that the SCOTS, Wittenberg, ONU, Va. Wesleyan are teams that will be in the mix for the national title.  Going undefeated is especially tough with a competitive non-conference schedule.  As a former high school coach and current AAU coach, loses can be good things.  They can substantiate the coach's rants. "You are good but not that good" or "You have to rebound better" or "You have to play 40 minutes" really gets thru to players after a loss, especially when you think you could have or should have won the game.
   The SCOTS have lost two in a row and the SCOTS can take those lessons learned and carry that ill feeling all the way to Salem.  A key loss to knock the ego can be good.  For the Wooster run to Salem in 2003, there were two key losses with all of those wins, the loss to K'zoo in the final of the Mose Hole and @ Wittenberg.
   Now again we have two loses and after the Mose Hole, we launch into lackluster NCAC play.  There are some key points to take into the rest of the season that we take from these loses: (1) Wooster has to find a way to win when the outside shot is not falling.  We still have Witt and two with OWU on the schedule.  (2) We need depth for offense and defense in the paint.  'Darth' Vandervaart cannot do it by himself. (Read send in the Freshman) and (3) Free throws, Free throws and FTs.
   I am not panicking.  I have been around basketball too long to panic.  But we have to take advantage of these losses, move on and take the lessons to make us a better team.  That is why the schedule was tough in the first place right?  Time to prepare to March.  Well, now we know what we need to work on!!  Let's good SCOTS!! Let's turn these losses into 'good losses'.

Let's start the drive to Salem with a win over Calvin!!
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goscots

Congrats to ONU as they are a very good and deep team.

An exciting game (24 lead changes!) but unfortunately the Scots did not execute at the finish, (the turnover pass from Johnson to Fulk, the missed FT's, the in and out layup). Just too much to overcome in a tight ball game.

To me the stat of the game was second chance points (22 for ONU, 10 for Wooster). In the first half it seemed that ONU got virtually every missed shot for easy put backs. On the other end of the court some shots went up too quick and players like Vandervaart were not in position to grab a RB.

Another advantage was the speed of their guards. The Scot's guards seemed to be a half step behind in their defense which resulted in a number of fouls on drives to the hoop.

So now it is gut check time. Calvin is not Thiel so the Scots will have to show that they can put it behind them quickly and concentrate on the task on hand. Earlier games were marked by sharp passes for easy or open look shots. Last night there were only 11 assists on 28 baskets. Need to get back to their game...

wooscotsfan

#4436
Final:  Wooster 98  Calvin 82

Wooster controlled this game from the beginning and the outcome was never in doubt.  Scots played a much better game tonight and won the battle of the boards by a 44-32 count. :)

Wooster was led tonight by James Cooper with 27 points.  He was unstoppable including a one on one play to score right before halftime (Scots led 56-40 at the half).  Tom Port played an inspired game tonight scoring 20 points plus a number of rebounds and he made his free throws (6 of 6).

Marty Bidwell played his best game ever as a Scot with a career high 20 points including 4 three pointers and overall great shooting (7 of 8 from the floor).  Devin Fulk also made 4 three pointers and added a total of 14 points.

Calvin was led by Caleb Veldhouse with 22 points (5 three pointers) and Matt Veltema with 13 points.

Wooster is now 10-2, 3-0 NCAC. :)  Next up is Denison on 1/6.

GO SCOTS!

wooscotsfan

#4437
Quote from: wooscotsfan on December 26, 2006, 09:39:54 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on December 22, 2006, 07:26:59 PM

The E stood for Ernest.  Hope that helps.  :)

I believe that E.M. Hole was short for Earnest Mose Hole.  There is some story that once appeared in the Daily Record that he was named after the family cat?

David Collinge and I had a nice halftime conversation this evening with Frank Knorr and he filled in the correct facts and missing pieces.  E.M. Hole was actually short for:

Ernest Main Hole

The "Mose" nickname did come from the family cat so he was known as "Mose" Hole throughout his coaching career. :)  Frank also commented that noted Boston Celtics Coach Red Auerbach once credited some of his early fast break principles to a small college coach in Ohio that he had heard talk at a basketball clinic....and that coach was "Mose" Hole who was a pioneer of fast break, pressing basketball in the 1930's. :)


wooscotsfan

Final:  #7 Ohio Northern 73  Wisconsin-LaCrosse 70

Greg Badenhop scored a game-high 26 points and earned Tournament MVP honors as Ohio Northern defeated Wisconsin-LaCrosse 73-70 tonight in the championship game of the Wooster Mose Hole Classic at Timken Gymnasium.

The Polar Bears improve to 10-1, while the Eagles fall to 8-4.



woosterbooster

More "Mose" Hole:

An elderly friend of mine, Chuck McClintock, knew Mose Hole back in the thirties.  Chuck actually played basketball with Mose's son, who was called "Pudge", at Wooster High School. 

Pudge, who was not fat but actually dealt his nickname because he was extremely skinny, went on to play for his dad at COW, probably right after the war.  According to Chuck he was a very good, but not very physical player.  In order to entice him to play tougher, his dad offered him various gifts if he were ever to foul out of a game, but he never did. :)