MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[David Collinge]

Lake Erie has a gym with a capacity of 750, according to the schedule page.  I wonder if they'd qualify to host with such a small gym.

I'm not too worried about having to go to Painesville for playoff games.  Even if LEC runs the table--and they might--their QoWI may not get much higher than it is already.  They have 8 regional games left (prior to the AMCC tournament), and referencing the four strata I mentioned before, they are at these levels now: 4, 2, 2, 0, 4, 0, 4, 2.  That's 18 points, plus (8*8=)64 points for 8 wins and 4 points for 4 road games, total 90 spread over 8 games=11.25, raising their QoWI to 10.8.  That's if they win all of them, and nobody's level slips.  If they lose even one of these 8, the QoWI points slip from 90 to 82, which is 10.25 for the 8 game span--in other words, their QoWI (now 10.5) goes down if they go 7-1.

As you can see from looking at JCU and ONU, OAC teams can achieve higher QoWIs without running the table.  (Losing on the road to JCU is worth just one point less than beating La Roche at home.)  If one OAC team establishes itself, they should pass LEC in QoWI with relative ease.  Hope's QoWI will also go up, and so might Wooster's if they can keep winning without Vandervaart (as weak as the NCAC is, it's still stronger than the AMCC.)  LEC can't afford any slip-ups if they want to host a GL sub-regional.

I've actually seen Lake Erie this season, although it was quite a while ago.  They won at Denison 82-70 in late November.  I was not impressed; this is what I said on another board back then:

Lake Erie.  An athletic team that never stops running, but plays in what seems to be an undisciplined manner at both ends.  They beat Denison but had trouble putting them away, despite a pretty pedestrian effort by the Big Red.  I'm sure the Storm is looking at another 15+ win season in the AMCC, and they did win at Rochester earlier this season, but I'm not too concerned about them as a national threat.

They're probably better than they were when they got embarrassed at Wittenberg, but I'm still not convinced they could reach the Sweet Sixteen, even with a couple of home playoff games.

[ScotsFan]

David, thanks for all of the number crunching in figuring out GL QoWI's.  While that clears up a lot of questions, it also raises just as many in regards to why the NCAA can't find better means in regards to the tournament selection process and seeding.

This is why the QoWI is a sham and a fraud - by concentrating on records IN region, you can pile up the points by playing the decent teams of weak conferences. Heck, ask the NESCAC all about that!

Well said smeds! 

Lake Erie has a gym with a capacity of 750, according to the schedule page.  I wonder if they'd qualify to host with such a small gym.

According to Lake Erie's Athtics page, the Facilies link also has their gym with a capacity of 750.

They're probably better than they were when they got embarrassed at Wittenberg, but I'm still not convinced they could reach the Sweet Sixteen, even with a couple of home playoff games.

I glanced over Lake Erie's  schedule when visiting their basketball page and I was not overly impressed by any of their results.  It's not like they are manhandling inferior competition by any means.  And their marquee wins are against Rochester and Bethany.  Rochester isn't near the powerhouse they have been in recent years and Bethany is hardly anything to hang your cap on as evidenced by their less than stellar performances in the tournament the past few years. 

IF Lake Erie is indeed #1 when the first regional rankings are released, it will demonstrate once again the weaknesses and limitations of the NCAA selection methodology.  Lake Erie lost by 36 points (to Wittenberg) in the first round of the NCAA tourney last year and they actually lost 3 starters from that team.  Hard to believe that Lake Erie is that much better this year.

The AMCC is a cupcake conference and my guess is that Lake Erie would in 4th place if they played in the NCAC right now (behind Woo, Witt, OWU) and somewhere between 5th and 7th place if they played in the OAC.

I totally agree wooscotsfan!  But, as it stands now,  unless some unlikely AMCC foe rises up to knock them off, the road to Salem may have to go through Painseville, unless, the NCAA deems their gym to be too small.  IMHO, I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see one of the true top teams in the GL have little trouble in laying waste to the Storm come tournament time no matter the location and exposing the QoWI for the imperfections it brings in the process.

[Mr. Ypsi]

The topic of gym capacity for hosting got discussed a year or two ago (it may have been re: Bates hosting a women's sectional - whether or not the men's and women's standards are the same, I don't know).  The number 1,000 comes to mind as the minimum, but I wouldn't guarantee it.

[ScotsFan]

 The number 1,000 comes to mind as the minimum, but I wouldn't guarantee it.

I thought I had heard gyms need to be at least a capacity of 1,000 as well.  But, at the same time, I seem to remember hearing that gym size isn't a finalizing criteria.  In other words, it's taken into account, but a school with a smaller gym wouldn't be ruled out as a possible host because of the size of their gym.  I may be wrong, and I may just be making stuff up, but that seems to be what keeps coming back to me anyways.

[David Collinge]

From the 2007 D3 championship handbook, page 7:

Site Selection
The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to assure fiscal responsibility.
In addition, the men’s basketball committee requires each host to videotape all contests at its site, with the intent to make available to each team a copy of the contest in which it participated. The committee also prefers sites that will not host conflicting events during the championship practice and competition. Sites will also be evaluated as to the availability of appropriate practice times for all competing teams. To host first-round, second-round or sectional contests, a regulation court as defined in 2007 NCAA Men’s and Women’s Basketball Rules and Interpretations must be used. To host sectional competition, arena seating for at least 1,000 spectators is required. [emphasis added]

The 1000 "requirement" is for the sectionals (3rd/4th round) not for the sub-sectionals (1st/2nd rounds).  Painesville is well located and has ample hotels, restaurants, etc.  I don't know about the "quality" of LEC's gym, or their "attendance history and revenue potential," though.  I assume they have a regulation court, but that's not necessarily a given, as Hope didn't prior to the opening of DeVos.

[ScotsFan]

2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);

Painesville is also in the heart of Ohio's famed 'Snow Belt', so I wonder how much that would factor into the NCAA's decision. 

[Pat Coleman]

We're trying to get those early rounds referred to as regionals.

[David Collinge]

We're trying to get those early rounds referred to as regionals.

I'll try my best with that, but for Ohioans it might be a little tough.  The Ohio high school hoops tournament goes "sectional" then "district" then "regional" (then state/final four.)  I had to train myself to call the weekend before the D3 final four "sectionals" rather than "regionals," and that was hard enough.  Having "regional" winners advance to "sectionals" is just counter-intuitive to me. 

[wally_wabash]

Here's a list of those who have won this award this season; it might be useful for those thinking of post-season awards:
11/20: Bryan Yelvington, F, Kenyon (soph.)
11/27: Tim Vandervaart, C, Wooster (sr.)
12/4: Dane Borchers, P, Wittenberg (sr.)
12/11: Ryan Hollihan, F, Allegheny (soph.)
1/2: Markous Jewett, F, Earlham (sr.)
1/7: Mike Staley, G, Hiram (fr.)
1/14: Dan Hodgkinson, P, Denison (sr.)

Go ahead and add Wabash's Andrew Zimmer to the list as of 1/21.  Zimmer had a huge week as he led Wabash to consecutive wins for the first time this season.  35 points against Earlham on Wednesday, 22 more Saturday at Kenyon.  Zimmer shot 21-27 from the field for the week.  Worthy PotW numbers for Zimmer this week, and if you look at the list of who's won this year, it was Wabash's turn.   If you're not laying money on somebody from Oberlin or OWU to win this award next week, you've not been around the NCAC very long.  

[David Collinge]

Go ahead and add Wabash's Andrew Zimmer to the list as of 1/21.  Zimmer had a huge week as he led Wabash to consecutive wins for the first time this season.  35 points against Earlham on Wednesday, 22 more Saturday at Kenyon.  Zimmer shot 21-27 from the field for the week.  Worthy PotW numbers for Zimmer this week, and if you look at the list of who's won this year, it was Wabash's turn.   If you're not laying money on somebody from Oberlin or OWU to win this award next week, you've not been around the NCAC very long.   

I'm not sure if that's an announcement or a prediction, but if it was a prediction, it was a pretty good one.
http://www.northcoast.org/mb/mbpow.txt

[smedindy]

Ah, DC - here in Indiana it goes from sectional to regional to semi-state to state.

Of course, it all made sense when the world was right and true and just. Now we have class basketball and it makes me just...well...enraged...sigh...

[Li'l Giant]

I'm not sure if that's an announcement or a prediction, but if it was a prediction, it was a pretty good one.

Don't encourage him. He'll keep predicting stuff.

Now we have class basketball and it makes me just...well...enraged...sigh...

I've never understood this. Don't all the other states have classes too? What's the big deal?

[pennstghs]

well if an oberlin player is to win the award they're gonna have to turn some heads. my prediction is dane borchers. two easily matchup-latent matchups this week. wabash doesnt seem to be able to matchup well and then denison in which he had a big game the first time around. him or ben chojnacki from OWU are my picks....

Lake Erie is a hard team to tell about since they dont play anyone comparitvely in our region. Kind of like the OAC in predictions huh? We had this same discussion with Lake Erie-"o we had a great year we can surprise people."

Let's see how the draw comes out first-there are way too many games to be played before we even start to talk about the tournament

[wally_wabash]

Go ahead and add Wabash's Andrew Zimmer to the list as of 1/21.  Zimmer had a huge week as he led Wabash to consecutive wins for the first time this season.  35 points against Earlham on Wednesday, 22 more Saturday at Kenyon.  Zimmer shot 21-27 from the field for the week.  Worthy PotW numbers for Zimmer this week, and if you look at the list of who's won this year, it was Wabash's turn.   If you're not laying money on somebody from Oberlin or OWU to win this award next week, you've not been around the NCAC very long.   

I'm not sure if that's an announcement or a prediction, but if it was a prediction, it was a pretty good one.
http://www.northcoast.org/mb/mbpow.txt

Oh yeah, I looked that up.  I've given up trying to figure out the thought process behind the NCAC PotW awards.  I'd have voted for Staley from Hiram.  I would guess that the biggest thing going against him this week was that he won just two weeks ago...the NCAC likes to spread the love with this "award". 

[smedindy]

The lore of Indiana basketball is that every school had a chance to win, and compete against the big boys. That's lost now. People really cared, and the sectionals were battles of pride - or watching to see if David could slay Goliath.