MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Li'l Giant]

So you're saying we can't have five teams in a "top four" discussion?  We're all liberally educated...let's think outside the box gentlemen.   

After all, we all live amidst an eleven-team Big Ten!

It's possible that the Big Ten is unable to count that high.   

I doubt it. Someone has to count all that BCS television money. 

[Pat Coleman]

Now, now, come on. They still have Northwestern.

[David Collinge]

Now, now, come on. They still have Northwestern.

A favorite story:
Back in 199x, when Northwestern made the Rose Bowl, ABC produced and televised an hour-long schmalzfest about how wonderful and heartwarming and life-affirming it was that a great school like Northwestern could still play championship football without compromising their high academic ideals.  This point was hammered home by interview after interview.  After about 45 minutes of this, my mother, University of Michigan '51, who had been listening to this from the kitchen unbeknownst to us, came storming into the room, mixing bowl in hand, wooden spoon dripping batter on the floor, and declared "the University of Michigan is higher ranked than Northwestern in every single academic program; why don't they do this when they make the Rose Bowl?!?" and stormed back out.

[Pat Coleman]

It's possible Northwestern applies the standards a little more stringently to its football players than Michigan does ...

[Li'l Giant]

Now, now, come on. They still have Northwestern.

A favorite story:
Back in 199x, when Northwestern made the Rose Bowl, ABC produced and televised an hour-long schmalzfest about how wonderful and heartwarming and life-affirming it was that a great school like Northwestern could still play championship football without compromising their high academic ideals.  This point was hammered home by interview after interview.  After about 45 minutes of this, my mother, University of Michigan '51, who had been listening to this from the kitchen unbeknownst to us, came storming into the room, mixing bowl in hand, wooden spoon dripping batter on the floor, and declared "the University of Michigan is higher ranked than Northwestern in every single academic program; why don't they do this when they make the Rose Bowl?!?" and stormed back out.

See?! Even the Big Ten plays the "academic card". 

[woosterbooster]

The Big Ten is back down to 10 teams.  Ohio State was voted out after their loss to LSU.

[David Collinge]

It's possible Northwestern applies the standards a little more stringently to its football players than Michigan does ...

It's also possible that they don't.

It's always bugged me that Michigan appears to have a double standard regarding athletics, one possibly more egregious than any this side of Palo Alto.  Maybe that's why I went to a D3 school, and it's certainly why I cheer for D3 schools and pay no attention to D1 athletics, Michigan included.  But it's not like Michigan is the only top-rank academic school in the Big 10 that overemphasizes sports (hello, Indiana!), so why not Northwestern too?

[smedindy]

But at least the athletes at Duke, Northwestern, Rice, Stanford, Vanderbilt, etc. all seem to be getting an education. I said seem to be!

[Li'l Giant]

But at least the athletes at Duke, Northwestern, Rice, Stanford, Vanderbilt, etc. all seem to be getting an education. I said seem to be!

It's more likely we just assume they are because of a subjective view that those schools are better. Maybe it's a bias we have that private schools are better.

[David Collinge]

But at least the athletes at Duke, Northwestern, Rice, Stanford, Vanderbilt, etc. all seem to be getting an education. I said seem to be!

It's more likely we just assume they are because of a subjective view that those schools are better. Maybe it's a bias we have that private schools are better.

I try not to assume anything or generalize in this regard.  I know that athletes at Duke, Vanderbilt, Michigan, etc. have access to a superior education.  Whether they take advantage of that access, or are encouraged to, is not something I know.  Some obviously do, and more power to them.  Others appear to be unconcerned with the educational aspects of the school; leaving early for the pros is one indication of this. 

I guess my presumption is that an athlete in a big-time program at a great school who is taking full advantage of the educational opportunities is a rare and highly motivated student.  Just the opposite of D3, I might add.

[Li'l Giant]

But at least the athletes at Duke, Northwestern, Rice, Stanford, Vanderbilt, etc. all seem to be getting an education. I said seem to be!

It's more likely we just assume they are because of a subjective view that those schools are better. Maybe it's a bias we have that private schools are better.

I try not to assume anything or generalize in this regard.  I know that athletes at Duke, Vanderbilt, Michigan, etc. have access to a superior education.  Whether they take advantage of that access, or are encouraged to, is not something I know.  Some obviously do, and more power to them.  Others appear to be unconcerned with the educational aspects of the school; leaving early for the pros is one indication of this. 

I guess my presumption is that an athlete in a big-time program at a great school who is taking full advantage of the educational opportunities is a rare and highly motivated student.  Just the opposite of D3, I might add.

Well, this is second hand info, but one of our occasional posters (Loyal Son of Wabash) teaches at the University of Texas and he has a section of a class that is specifically for athletes. What he has told me is that the kids in the non-revenue sports are more like the D3 athletes and the kids in the major revenue sports are the ones that fit the "generalization".

[David Collinge]

But at least the athletes at Duke, Northwestern, Rice, Stanford, Vanderbilt, etc. all seem to be getting an education. I said seem to be!

It's more likely we just assume they are because of a subjective view that those schools are better. Maybe it's a bias we have that private schools are better.

I try not to assume anything or generalize in this regard.  I know that athletes at Duke, Vanderbilt, Michigan, etc. have access to a superior education.  Whether they take advantage of that access, or are encouraged to, is not something I know.  Some obviously do, and more power to them.  Others appear to be unconcerned with the educational aspects of the school; leaving early for the pros is one indication of this. 

I guess my presumption is that an athlete in a big-time program at a great school who is taking full advantage of the educational opportunities is a rare and highly motivated student.  Just the opposite of D3, I might add.

Well, this is second hand info, but one of our occasional posters (Loyal Son of Wabash) teaches at the University of Texas and he has a section of a class that is specifically for athletes. What he has told me is that the kids in the non-revenue sports are more like the D3 athletes and the kids in the major revenue sports are the ones that fit the "generalization".

I could relate a similar story about Duke basketball players from ~25 years ago, also second hand, but I won't.  Suffice to say that their connection with Duke University was tenuous at best.

[smedindy]

I could relate a similar story about Duke basketball players from ~25 years ago, also second hand, but I won't.  Suffice to say that their connection with Duke University was tenuous at best.

Yet doesn't Duke under Coach K graduate pert near everyone that stays four years?

[David Collinge]

I could relate a similar story about Duke basketball players from ~25 years ago, also second hand, but I won't.  Suffice to say that their connection with Duke University was tenuous at best.

Yet doesn't Duke under Coach K graduate pert near everyone that stays four years?

Even if that's true, it doesn't mean they had the same educational experience as the run of the mill Duke student.  I don't really want to go into specifics; suffice to say that the ancient Duke situation I have second-hand knowledge of with makes Loyal Son of Wabash's athletes-only sections of regular classes look strict by comparison.  And how many athletes do you think LSW flunked in that section?

[Li'l Giant]

I could relate a similar story about Duke basketball players from ~25 years ago, also second hand, but I won't.  Suffice to say that their connection with Duke University was tenuous at best.

Yet doesn't Duke under Coach K graduate pert near everyone that stays four years?

Even if that's true, it doesn't mean they had the same educational experience as the run of the mill Duke student.  I don't really want to go into specifics; suffice to say that the ancient Duke situation I have second-hand knowledge of with makes Loyal Son of Wabash's athletes-only sections of regular classes look strict by comparison.  And how many athletes do you think LSW flunked in that section?

As far as his passing rate of his students I have no earthly idea.
Knowing him the way I do, I'd say if none of them flunked, none of them needed to.

It's a good time to mention LSW was a 2 sport athlete at Wabash. He understands what they're going through and maybe that's why he was selected to teach that section.

And as far as the athlete's experience vs. the run of the mill student's experience I will say he passed on a story about a day when more of his students were on crutches than were not. That doesn't typically happen in a "regular" class.