MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[smedindy]

Well, ya know, the CCIW and WIAC are always amongst the top conferences in D-3. Except for Witt and Woo (and occasional decent OWU and Wabash teams), the NCAC, not so much.

I guess you can blame the company that Nelson kept. Beating up Hiram, Oberlin and Denison in the regular season isn't that impressive to the D-3 cognesceti even if Wooster held its own during the NCAA tourney and finished third his senior year.

[David Collinge]

Amongst, sure.  But 44% of the all-decade team is from these two conferences, 28% from the CCIW alone (heck, 12% from Illinois Wesleyan alone!).  That's not amongst, that's overwhelming.  And it smells funny. 

[smedindy]

Well, I know Titan Q has a lot of pull around here. 

[Vanilla24COW]

Forgot about his matchup with Wiertel, he also outplayed the vastly overrated IMO Derek Reich whose Chicago Maroons played in the 00-01 Mose Hole (well showed up)

[smedindy]

Of course, that was ONE game you saw, and it was a home game for Nelson and Wooster. And frankly, putting up excellent numbers in the UAA is much more impressive than the same numbers in the NCAC.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Amongst, sure.  But 44% of the all-decade team is from these two conferences, 28% from the CCIW alone (heck, 12% from Illinois Wesleyan alone!).  That's not amongst, that's overwhelming.  And it smells funny. 

Before you get too far into conspiracy territory, who among Korey Coon, Adam Dauksas, and Keelan Amelianovich do you think is unworthy of their selection?

[Pat Coleman]

Amongst, sure.  But 44% of the all-decade team is from these two conferences, 28% from the CCIW alone (heck, 12% from Illinois Wesleyan alone!).  That's not amongst, that's overwhelming.  And it smells funny. 

No Illinois Wesleyan representative had any say in the players selected to the All-Decade team. Only Gordon Mann, Mark Simon and I were on the "selection committee."

[woosterbooster]

Before you get too far into conspiracy territory, who among Korey Coon, Adam Dauksas, and Keelan Amelianovich do you think is unworthy of their selection?

Nice try at loading the question, but it's full of blanks.  The answer?  Compared to Nelson, all of them.  I saw Nelson play almost all of his home games and a handful of road games.  From his junior year forward, every time he stepped onto the court he was the best player out there, and that includes those playoff games his senior year when he was playing on one leg.

You guys chose to ignore him, one of ten DIII players of the year during this decade, leaving him completely off a list of 25 players?  Alright, it's your ball and your choice.  But Pat, at some point during that 2001 Final Four, I'm almost sure that you said Bryan Nelson was the most impressive player that you'd seen at the Final Four.  So, basically, I don't get it.

[Pat Coleman]

Who are you talking to, Ypsi or me?

Nelson, as mentioned, wasn't one of OUR players of the decade. Ask the NABC for their All-Decade Team if that's a measurement you want to use.

Like most people complaining about a team, you have only seen a few players on this list and one of them you've seen many times. Just because Nelson was the best player in the games you saw doesn't mean he was one of the 25 best players out of 19,000 starting slots over those 10 years.

[Pat Coleman]

Here's what I said (in 2003, of course, not 2001):

http://www.d3hoops.com/salem/03/wrapup.htm

Most Unbelievable Player: Bryan Nelson, Wooster. We don't know how he did it, but he did. And then he came out in the third-place game and did it again. As meaningless as the third-place game can be if one or both teams aren't motivated to play, perhaps we should have let it also influence our All-American picks.

That's the most unbelievable player of two games, yes. That doesn't mean I can throw out the other nine years of the decade, however. There are a LOT of players.

[woosterbooster]

Geeze, wasn't his picture even on the old home page of d3hoops as the poster boy of "posting up"?

I know there are a lot of players.  I know that I saw none of them except for Tori Davis.  I know Nelson wasn't a d3hoops player of the year.  I just find it extremely hard to believe that division three basketball has had so many guys better than him in the last ten years.  That Wooster team that he took to the final four did not have anywhere near the talent that these more recent teams do.  He carried them through the playoffs on his shoulders, with a bad ankle to boot, and nearly pulled off a championship.

[David Collinge]

Who I would or wouldn't have on such a team is no more interesting or relevant than any other fan.  But I wouldn't approach the question from a position that the CCIW, its teams, players, and coaches, are the best unless and until proven otherwise.  And I often get the sense that this is the way the D3 world is viewed around here.

[Li'l Giant]

Who I would or wouldn't have on such a team is no more interesting or relevant than any other fan.  But I wouldn't approach the question from a position that the CCIW, its teams, players, and coaches, are the best unless and until proven otherwise.  And I often get the sense that this is the way the D3 world is viewed around here.

Substitute "OAC" for "CCIW" and you've got the football board.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Who I would or wouldn't have on such a team is no more interesting or relevant than any other fan.  But I wouldn't approach the question from a position that the CCIW, its teams, players, and coaches, are the best unless and until proven otherwise.  And I often get the sense that this is the way the D3 world is viewed around here.

David, that wasn't my point (and, of course, I had nothing to do with the selection of the all-decade team), but you singled out my team as receiving 12% of the selections shortly before saying "it smells funny".  In that context, I don't think it was at all inappropriate (or confrontational) to ask who would you say was not worthy.

WooBoo, I never saw Bryan Nelson, but you've acknowleged that you never saw Coon, Dauksas, or Amelianovich, so I doubt this debate would go anywhere!   Titan Q (whose judgment I greatly respect) already said Nelson was fantastic (for those games, at least), so I don't doubt he may have been worthy.  But please don't cast aspersions on the Titans you haven't seen.

[woosterbooster]

Mr. Ypsi -

I'm not sure what you mean by casting aspersions.  I'm not in any way saying that those three players are not very good basketball players.  (And, actually, I did see Dauksas and Amelianovich on a webcast or two, for whatever that's worth)  When I say that I believe Bryan Nelson is better than all of them, it only indicates my regard for his level of play.

This whole thing is just amazing to me.  When I first saw mention that an All-Decade team was going to be chosen I was absolutely sure that Bryan Nelson would not only be on it, but if there was going to be a player of the decade, that he would merit some very serious consideration for that honor.  I'm just in complete disbelief that he could be left off the whole top 25.