MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[smedindy]

They can come up with something better than this to chant. 

But...but...it's a TRADITION! 

(The joke in the offices at Wabash is that if something happens two years in a row, it's a tradition, and three years in a row it's 'we've always done it this way' and stopping it would be an affront of the gentleman's rule, etc. etc.)

[NCAC_alum55]

Gentlemen of the NCAC,

I've watched and followed your conversations for years... and figured what better time to begin my posting career than NCAC tourney time  

As a side note... I did graduate from OWU- feel free to hold that against me 8)

[imderekpoe]

If I remember correctly back in the 9-team NCAC days they used to have a play-in game.  The 8-9 teams - usually Oberlin and someone else - would play to see who would get to play Woo or Witt in a couple days.  At some point that was abandoned and they went to the 8 team tournament.

Also, the site of the semi and final round games used to rotate between Wooster, Ohio Wesleyan, and Wittenberg.  I remember the finals being at OWU during a couple of the Jamie Harless years.

[Li'l Giant]

They can come up with something better than this to chant. 

But...but...it's a TRADITION! 

(The joke in the offices at Wabash is that if something happens two years in a row, it's a tradition, and three years in a row it's 'we've always done it this way' and stopping it would be an affront of the gentleman's rule, etc. etc.)

That joke wasn't just limited to the administrative or staff offices. There's another school I know of that treats tradition that way: Texas A&M. And anyone who knows me knows I don't want that comparison being made.

Count me as one who thinks the "Ohio Sucks" chant needs to go away forever. It's just dumb. The point of chants is to be clever, at least it is IMHO. There's nothing clever about that.

[David Collinge]

If I remember correctly back in the 9-team NCAC days they used to have a play-in game.  The 8-9 teams - usually Oberlin and someone else - would play to see who would get to play Woo or Witt in a couple days.  At some point that was abandoned and they went to the 8 team tournament.

Also, the site of the semi and final round games used to rotate between Wooster, Ohio Wesleyan, and Wittenberg.  I remember the finals being at OWU during a couple of the Jamie Harless years.

I could be wrong, but I think the OAC had a 10-team tourney until recently.  Now it's 8.

Gentlemen of the NCAC,

I've watched and followed your conversations for years... and figured what better time to begin my posting career than NCAC tourney time 

As a side note... I did graduate from OWU- feel free to hold that against me 8)

Woo-hoo!  An OWU guy, and (unless I'm mistaken) a former player as well!  Great news!  Welcome aboard!

Okay, Allegheny lurkers, it's your turn.  Time to step up! 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Some comments on conference tourneys:

When the CCIW began having a tourney (only 3(?) years ago), I was against it, and agreed with those who think the whole season should determine the AQ.  I've changed my mind, but ONLY so long as it stays a 4-team tourney.

The tourney gives a second chance to those very good teams who lost a couple of early games to injury, youth, or whatever (whereas, if you can't make the top 4, you weren't good ENOUGH to overcome the inevitable misfortunes of the season).

It still leaves the regular season meaningful and exciting - generally no more than one or two teams have been eliminated from contention before the final week.

With a full (or 8 ) team tourney, the first round games are likely to actually HURT the OWP of the top teams. 

And, of course, there is aways the risk that the conference will send a truly bad team as their AQ (they 'earned' it, but should a 3-game hot streak outweigh an entire season of 'badness'?).  Whereas even if #4 gets hot, they are still a very respectable team.  (And if any of the teams above them are truly superior, there is always pool C.)

Just my $.02 - it's your conference!

[smedindy]

Ah, but then there's the entire insanity of picking the at-large teams anyway, and that's a different kettle o'fish.

And of course, there are years where there's a whole knot of teams from 3-6 in a given conference, where they all would be good teams representing a certain league.

[ECHOOPER]

I think a lot of the D-3 tourneys are smaller to save costs and travel. And for conferences over 8 teams, it makes sense to limit it a bit. 12 team tourneys get a bit obtuse (but that doesn't stop the Sun Belt or Southern Conference).

But why not have an NCAC blowout in Dayton or Columbus?

Day 1: #5 vs #10, #6 vs. #9, #7 vs. #8
Day 2: #4 vs. winner of 5/10, #3 vs. winner of 6/9, #2 vs. winner of 7/8
Day 3: #1 vs. winner of 4/5/10, 3/6/9 winner vs. 2/7/8
Day 4: World Championship of the NCAC.

That protects #1, gives teams incentives to finish in the top 4, yet allows for a quixotic tourney run by an underdog which would make great copy for us junkies.

Doing it this way we could almost rotate the tournament allowing 2 teams to host the tournament( i.e. Wabash and Earlham holding it in Indianapolis).  It allows fans to make the trip to the tournament.  Having the tournament last from Thursday to Sunday.  This is something that some other players and I have been talking about for a couple of years.  Something that we should draft up and maybe send it to the commish and have him take a look at it. 

[woosterbooster]

I think that, if there is going to be a tournament, that the regular season winner has earned the right to host it, gaining home court advantage.  Whatever edge that the top seed had earned would be seriously reduced if they had to travel to a neutral site, especially one that might be more favorable to a competitive lower seed.

[Li'l Giant]

I guess it depends on what the purpose (stated or otherwise) of a postseason tournament is. If the purpose is to determine the champion and recipient of the automatic qualifier for the Dance, then having it at the regular season champ's house is the way to go.

If the purpose is to create an event that sells tickets and generates revenue, then the way the Big 12, Big 10, Pac-10 do it is the way to go.

I also like what I read about the CCIW's way of doing it. It seems like a great middle ground.

[David Collinge]

I guess there's no way to prove it, but I think an NCAC tournament, regardless of the number of teams or duration, played at a neutral site would be a financial disaster.  The only neutral-site D3 tournaments I can think of off the top of my head are the ODAC (Salem, VA) and the SCAC, which is not strictly "neutral;" until recently it had been played at Rhodes College in Memphis, but this year has moved to Hendrix College in Conway, AR.  Maybe I can get pbrooks from Centre to weigh in on how well attended that will be.

The CCIW tournament is played on the court of the top-seeded team.

Also, according to the NCAC basketball handbook, the purpose of the tournament is to determine the autobid.  The NCAC Champion is determined in the regular season:

1.1 Determination of Conference Champion
The NCAC champion shall be the team with the best record (winning percentage)
in regular-season conference play.
[...]
2.1 Conference Champion for NCAA Championship
In 1999, the NCAA implemented a system of automatic entry into Division III
team sport championships for all conferences. If a conference accepts an
automatic entry for its champion, it must deliver one champion for the national
NCAA Championship. Obvious problems occur if a conference has more than
one champion, under its existing rules. Therefore, the North Coast Athletic
Conference basketball coaches have determined the winner of the NCAC
Tournament shall earn the conference's automatic bid into the NCAA
Tournament.

[old scot]

Thanks for the info Dave. After reviewing the NCAC Basketball Handbook the problem lies within the conference itself. Nine years ago the coaches voted for the tourney winner to receive the auto bid. No problem there. I would like to know how many coaches think 8 of 10 teams deserve the right to compete for that bid? If you can't finish in the top 40% of the conference, should you have the right to compete for an NCAA berth?

[smedindy]

Well, yes you have the right. If a #1 seed loses to the #8, then it is what it is.

DC - My idea was mostly in jest, mainly because I realize that there's no way the NCAC could pull it off financially.

[David Collinge]

Any Wabash or Oberlin fans that may be planning to head towards my little corner of the world should keep an eye on tomorrow's weather.  We're supposed to get more of the delightful "wintry mix" tonight, then convert that to snow tomorrow, perhaps up to 3".  I'd also keep an eye on the NCAC website as well as the Kenyon and Wooster sites in case there's a postponement. 

I'm not sure what the Wabash team travel plans would be; would they have left this evening or would they travel tomorrow?  If they came tonight to stay in Mt. Vernon, they'd have no weather trouble, and the game would go on tomorrow regardless of weather.  So stay tuned.

[old scot]

Smeds, you enjoy playing the devils advovate. The point is a 15-1 team should not be playing a 4-12 team in a playoff game. The NCAC does not go that deep in competitive balance and the conference needs to make a change. If you can't finish in the top 4, pack your bags and go home. This isn't Little League where everyone has to play.