MBB: Coast 2 Coast Athletic Conference

[Matt Letourneau]

Well, 14, if you read what I say though, I think its pretty clear that I put the blame the same place you do:
"There was no reason to lose composure and get tossed.  And what happens is that the team followed the coach's lead and just totally tanked, stopping playing defense and started playing hockey."

The team followed their coach's lead.   I agree with you 100%.  Catholic most likely would have won the game anyway, because that's the way it was trending, but you CANNOT pick up another tech there.  You just can't, and I agree that it completely blew the game up.  The players do have to take some responsiblity--I'm sick of excuses.  They had to know better than that even with McClarly gone.  But even so, if you know your team and how they react, then you should know you can't let that happen.

On the Wheeler sub, he should not have ever been made to take that free throw.  He was literally dripping blood.  He took one free threw, missed it, the CUA bench was point at the blood the whole time, and finally the ref went over, looked, and ordered him off the court as is the rule.  He did need treatment on the bench. 

On that time out, they may have intended just to sub, but they didn't tell the ref and actually huddled for about 20 seconds, THEN decided to sub and roll.  The timeout was called on the Marymount end of the court, and Catholic had barely even settled into their huddle before Marymount tried to end the timeout.  The officials never should have let Marymount back on the court anyway, but one of them did, and then eventually was overuled because at least somebody knew the rules.   

[ex_mu14]

Matt,

I did not see all the blows been thrown but i have to agree with you on this one.  You not going to say anything about the refs.. I dont know why Mu was complaining so much its the same CAC refs from back in 1998-02. Does CAC ever replace their refs?

[ex_mu14]

i was typing my first post before you posted yours.

[ycp]

Wow, I guess we must be getting into the conference slate with the MU/CUA events of the evening...

Anyway, here is the recap for the York/Gallaudet game....

The Spartans were led by junior Chad McGowan as the reigning CAC Men's Basketball Player of the Week poured in 23 points while he also pulled down seven rebounds, blocked two shots and had two steals. Nick Brady recorded a career-high with 17 points including five threes. Sophomore Nate Lankford established a new career-high with 16 points, five rebounds, six assists, and three steals. Senior captain Brad Zerfing was the fourth Spartan in double figures with 14 points while he also had four assists, two steals, one blocked shot, and a pair of rebounds. Sophomore Pat Kelley pulled down a career-high 10 rebounds in addition to his nine points, three assists, and two steals.
Jonathan Valencia led the Bison with 22 points while he also had three steals and three boards. Sekoe White added 18 points, six rebounds, five rebounds, and three steals. White scored 17 of his 18 points in the second half of the contest. Jon Mowl added 17 points, five assists, and three steals but the Spartan defense harassed the point guard into eight turnovers for the game.
The Spartans finished the game shooting 51.6% from the floor including a blistering 63.2% (12-for-19) from three. Gallaudet shot 60% in the second half, a half in which they scored 58 points, but ended the game shooting 42.4% from the floor. Gallaudet was just 7-for-31 (22.6%) from the field in the first half. York out-rebounded the Bison 44-31 while the Spartans held a 27-14 edge in fast break points.
York had its best night of the season from the free throw line as they were 20-for-26 (76.9%) including 15-for-17 in the second half.
York has allowed 55 and 58 points in their last two second halves (at Salisbury and Gallaudet at home).

As I had posted before, Spartan head coach Jeff Gamber earned his 400th win with the victory.

Game Box
http://www.ycp.edu/sports/mens_basketball/2006/YCPMBB06.HTM

[Matt Letourneau]

Matt,

I did not see all the blows been thrown but i have to agree with you on this one.  You not going to say anything about the refs.. I dont know why Mu was complaining so much its the same CAC refs from back in 1998-02. Does CAC ever replace their refs?

No.  And they should.  They're bad.  They're always bad.  I suppose you could say that they were consistently bad.  But they aren't consistent.  Therein lies the problem.  Block/charge? Flip a coin. 

[ex_mu14]

Insert Quote  
In what could be Catholic's last game at the Verizon Center, it was same old Marymount.

This is not the same old Marymount. From 1998-02 Marymount made the CAC final three out of the four years. One CAC championship, one buzzer beater lost to CU (their national championship year) and another close lost to Cu.  I cant remember the last time Mu got past the the CAC 1st round.

I cant believe what happen tonight......

[Matt Letourneau]

Well, even on those teams, I've never liked the attitude that came with the Saints--it frequently crossed the line (no, not everybody, but some) and I'm hardly the only one to think so--but, lets rephrase to say same old Marymount of the last 4 years, then.

I know how tough Marymount can be.  I was in the gym when Catholic came in as a top 3 team in the country in 2002 and got beat.  There's no reason they can't be good.  They ALWAYS played Catholic very tough and they had a ton of emotion which they channeled.  I used to wonder how they didn't have more wins because they looked so good.

Tonight was indeed a very, very poor showing that doesn't reflect well on anbody over there.  It SHOULD be a wake up call to Bill Finney, but my bet is that he can't be bothered to care.

And while I'm on my soapbox, do something about the scorer's table.  Its always something, this year it was not buzzing in subs  (yeah the refs should blow the whistle but they weren't paying attention).

Oh well, be interesting to see what the Saints look like when they show up in Catholic--though it is quite likely I will be missing that game, with bigger (or actually smaller) things on my mind!

Next up for Catholic is Hood.  Hood is 6-2, and tied with Catholic at 2-1 in the league.  They put up 99 against SMC today (why are they so bad, by the way?)  Certainly NOT going to be an easy game.  Coach Dickman certainly knows CUA, since his son ran the point for the Cardinals.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

On that time out, they may have intended just to sub, but they didn't tell the ref and actually huddled for about 20 seconds, THEN decided to sub and role.  The timeout was called on the Marymount end of the court, and Catholic had barely even settled into their huddle before Marymount tried to end the timeout.  The officials never should have let Marymount back on the court anyway, but one of them did, and then eventually was overuled because at least somebody knew the rules.

OK - a bit confused. Who called the timeout? If Catholic called the timeout, then the timeout ends either when Catholic breaks out of their "huddle" or when the time runs out. If Marymount called the time out, it doesn't matter if CUA didn't have time to get settled in their huddle, the timeout is over.

Just for clarification... a time out ends when the time ends or the team who calls the timeout breaks their huddle and returns to the court. Thus... the timeout for a sub rule - no one ever meets... the idea was to get a sub onto the court (usually late in games).

Does CAC ever replace their refs?

Yes... actually they do. I was talking to a ref I know well just the other day. In this region... they lost 27 refs from last year (due to moving, military committments, retiring, getting rid of, whatever) and got 25 new refs this year. I believe the idea the CAC has their own refs is a bit far-fetched. I need to look further into this, but I believe the CAC contracts through the region and refs are assigned. We happen to see refs we know due to other games (there are plenty of D1 games in this region), refs schedules and preferences, and then how good the refs are (I suspect). I know I have seen quite a few new refs this year, mainly because I have already seen at least 12 games at the SRC and a few more elsewhere.

Next up for Catholic is Hood.  Hood is 6-2, and tied with Catholic at 2-1 in the league.  They put up 99 against SMC today (why are they so bad, by the way?)  Certainly NOT going to be an easy game.  Coach Dickman certainly knows CUA, since his son ran the point for the Cardinals.

Hood is a good team you don't want to take lightly... and SMC can't get out of their past. They are unmature and their coach - as much as I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt - doesn't have control over them. He needs to lead by example and sometimes his example is a bit out of control (i.e. Lonergan and Trevino back in the day - which reminds me Matt, if you ever though Lonergan was never as bad as Trevino, you didn't pay attention. Speaking as one usually between the two of them... back in the day... I swore they were competing for who was going to yell louder at the refs and come the closest to earning a tech - quite funny to think about when looking back).

As for Hood, I am very impressed with what Coach Dickman has put together at Hood and think their entrance in the CAC was very well timed for the men's program. Instead of being stuck playing as an independent and with nothing to further challenge the program, they are in a very competitive conference now. While they may not be one of the best four in the near future, they will certainly continue to improve thanks to the better basketball they will forced to play in the conference alone.

Hood will finish better than #8 in this conference, while SMC and Gallaudet will be fighting to make the playoffs or playing in a play-in game (can't remember this year's set-up).

FINALLY - Congrats to Coach Gamber! I have certainly seen a lot of YCP basketball over the years and always respected what Coach Gamber (and his son, Dean) have put together up their in York. He has also always treated me with the utmost respect and taken the time to chat. 400 is a huge milestone... but I wonder if he will be around YCP to get 500??

[MuMu]

Being my first post, due to the fact of d3hoops taking years to get my account set-up.Playing for Coach Mac at MU, he has never lost his cool in a game! Honestly he would never advise anything that happen last night! However, I would not want to be the team today in practice for what happen last night. They will run untill the sun goes down as well as up. Coach MAC sweats class, and smells class daily off the court and on the court. He is best thing that has happend to the MU program, most importantly you gain your Degree, and he gets your prepared for after college!

[Matt Letourneau]

OK - a bit confused. Who called the timeout? If Catholic called the timeout, then the timeout ends either when Catholic breaks out of their "huddle" or when the time runs out. If Marymount called the time out, it doesn't matter if CUA didn't have time to get settled in their huddle, the timeout is over.

Just for clarification... a time out ends when the time ends or the team who calls the timeout breaks their huddle and returns to the court. Thus... the timeout for a sub rule - no one ever meets... the idea was to get a sub onto the court (usually late in games).

Does CAC ever replace their refs?

Yes... actually they do. I was talking to a ref I know well just the other day. In this region... they lost 27 refs from last year (due to moving, military committments, retiring, getting rid of, whatever) and got 25 new refs this year. I believe the idea the CAC has their own refs is a bit far-fetched. I need to look further into this, but I believe the CAC contracts through the region and refs are assigned. We happen to see refs we know due to other games (there are plenty of D1 games in this region), refs schedules and preferences, and then how good the refs are (I suspect). I know I have seen quite a few new refs this year, mainly because I have already seen at least 12 games at the SRC and a few more elsewhere.

Next up for Catholic is Hood.  Hood is 6-2, and tied with Catholic at 2-1 in the league.  They put up 99 against SMC today (why are they so bad, by the way?)  Certainly NOT going to be an easy game.  Coach Dickman certainly knows CUA, since his son ran the point for the Cardinals.

Hood is a good team you don't want to take lightly... and SMC can't get out of their past. They are unmature and their coach - as much as I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt - doesn't have control over them. He needs to lead by example and sometimes his example is a bit out of control (i.e. Lonergan and Trevino back in the day - which reminds me Matt, if you ever though Lonergan was never as bad as Trevino, you didn't pay attention. Speaking as one usually between the two of them... back in the day... I swore they were competing for who was going to yell louder at the refs and come the closest to earning a tech - quite funny to think about when looking back).


As for Hood, I am very impressed with what Coach Dickman has put together at Hood and think their entrance in the CAC was very well timed for the men's program. Instead of being stuck playing as an independent and with nothing to further challenge the program, they are in a very competitive conference now. While they may not be one of the best four in the near future, they will certainly continue to improve thanks to the better basketball they will forced to play in the conference alone.

Hood will finish better than #8 in this conference, while SMC and Gallaudet will be fighting to make the playoffs or playing in a play-in game (can't remember this year's set-up).

Well at this point, it looks like Hood could contend to be in the top 4.

FINALLY - Congrats to Coach Gamber! I have certainly seen a lot of YCP basketball over the years and always respected what Coach Gamber (and his son, Dean) have put together up their in York. He has also always treated me with the utmost respect and taken the time to chat. 400 is a huge milestone... but I wonder if he will be around YCP to get 500??

I was remiss is not nothing this earlier myself.  Yes, Coach Gamber has always run a quality program.  He deserves a lot of credit and congratulations on reaching that milestone.

On that time out, they may have intended just to sub, but they didn't tell the ref and actually huddled for about 20 seconds, THEN decided to sub and role.  The timeout was called on the Marymount end of the court, and Catholic had barely even settled into their huddle before Marymount tried to end the timeout.  The officials never should have let Marymount back on the court anyway, but one of them did, and then eventually was overuled because at least somebody knew the rules.

Marymount called a timeout.  They did not substitute and did not indicate they wished to shorten the timeout to substitute.  Instead, they huddled up for a while.  Then, they broke and came out on the court substantially early.  It is my understanding that if they wish to shorten the timeout, a warning must sound (I think its something like 15 seconds) alerting the other team.

I'm sure that's true about the refs but last night wasn't one of those new crews.  With the exception of one official, lets call them old favorites.

I wish we wouldn't start with this stuff again in terms of putting words in my mouth.  I didn't say that about Trevino vs. Lonegan.  I said that in THIS particular game--which you were not at--Trevino was arguing every call worse than Lonergan.  I know very well that those two went at it back in the day.  And it wasn't so much that Trevino was looking for a T, it was that he was literally arguing every single call against him.  Mike and most other coaches (and usually Trevino for that matter) are a lot more strategic about it--they'll work the refs the whole game, of course, but they won't argue obvious calls that happened right in front of the officials, which was what was happening last week for whatever reason.  I'm sure Mike was just as animated as Trevino was at times last week, but I never saw Mike throw a hissy fit over such obvious calls or try to argue that a shot shouldn't count when it was taken with over a second on the clock.  If you argue every call, nobody's going to listen to you by the end of the game.

[MuMu]

exmu14 Past CAC 1st round was two years ago ousted MaryWash at MaryWash, Then lost a close one @CU which was from a fans point of view, a great game and great sportsmanship after the game.

[Matt Letourneau]

Being my first post, due to the fact of d3hoops taking years to get my account set-up.Playing for Coach Mac at MU, he has never lost his cool in a game! Honestly he would never advise anything that happen last night! However, I would not want to be the team today in practice for what happen last night. They will run untill the sun goes down as well as up. Coach MAC sweats class, and smells class daily off the court and on the court. He is best thing that has happend to the MU program, most importantly you gain your Degree, and he gets your prepared for after college!

Well--then what happened?  Why did he get himself tossed?

[MuMu]

I think after 4 years off CAC officiating Coach Mac is entitled a toss out. Coach Wood acts like an A-hole every game, Matt I think you would agree with me on that one?

[Matt Letourneau]

Ha.  I suppose I should be diplomatic.   I will say that of the coaches in the league, Coach Wood has the worst temper problem, how's that?

I think you have to look at these things in terms of the situation.  Its one thing to get tossed out of a game that you're getting blown out of, its quite another to have it happen in a close game that you've got a chance to win, especially with a team that you know is likely to spiral out of control.  That's why I thought last night was pretty bad.

Look, sometimes its not a bad thing to pick up a T.  If you've really been getting screwed all night, and you're trying to wake up your team, so be it.   But generally, the level of outrage should depend on the situation, don't you think?

[mwgoonie]

Coaches yell, with the bad officiating we all know and love, they have too. I'd be upset as a player and fan if our CAC coaches didnt yell at the refs for theier bad miscalls.