MBB: Coast 2 Coast Athletic Conference

[seahawks]

speaking of mary wash, it is going to be a great game this weekend in st. marys and as I am 1-0 on predictions for this year I will go ahead and make my second

SMC- 75
UMW- 72

TYSON LESESNE LEADS THE SEAHAWKS WITH 25......

[Matt Letourneau]

I think the rest of the league has the right to know when a team brings in a ringer who is older than everybody else, for one.

Its up to individuals to form their own judgements, I'm not trying to do that for them.  Everybody has different standards. 

We went through this last year, with considerable embarassment not just to St. Mary's but to the entire league.  Throughout this league, people work hard to recruit and produce competitive teams. It was unfair for St. Mary's to bring in somebody who seriously affected the outcome of the league last year, not to mention the careers of his teammates, only to have him rather unsurprisingly get busted and wash out.  Before he did, people said the exact same thing you just said (he had changed, etc.)

Its deeply troubling to me to see that same school go right back down that path.  If that's what you want your school to represent, that's certainly your call, but yeah, I think the rest of the league has a right to know and draw their own conclusion.

[kitchenrat]

Everyone is entitled to make their own judgments about each and every player in the league. And so I see nothing wrong with one person on this site letting others know about what a player may have gone through in the past before arriving in the CAC.
     That goes for Lesesne this year the same as it did for Habel last year, and the team will have to deal with any ramifications if they arise. However, i don't fault SMC one bit for wanting to bring in a player (this year or last) to try and help them win. That's why they play the games, and this being DIII, they also have to pay to play. If the school feels they can accept the student, and the student is under no legal restriction from playing I have no problem with it.
    As far as second chances go, I take my hat of to SMC for giving it and Lesesne for embracing it. The caveat here is that this is an information age and even though you get an official second chance your opponents are going to find out about what you have done, and you better be able to take the ribbing from them and focus on the game. Last year in the game at York, Habel not only couldn't block out the taunts he was getting but also started jawing back with people all over the Gym. He put up a double double in short duty due to foul trouble but SMC never got into a flow because he was turning to look in the stands and making lewd comments, gestures and threats on each trip up and down the court. Sometimes you get a Chris Carter sometimes you get a Lawrence Phillips.

[seahawks]

I really do not feel it necessary to continue down this path but since I feel in this case It is only fair to everyone that knows this league well.  Catholic would never bring in D1 transfers or "ringers", would they?  Lets talk about "ringers".  One year before Catholic wins its national championship they received a transfer from Lehigh who became a 1st team all conference player and honorable mention all american and Catholic won the conference.  Sean Tuohey and players of that sort brought catholic to the level that they are now maintaining,  so how can you fault another school in the CAC for using the same method that Catholic used.  Possibly you feel threatened that Catholic's run of dominance is over and it is time for a new school to assume the responsibility of representing the CAC.  And what better school to do it then the best school in this conference academically and the school with the best arena, St. Marys College.  No offense to any other schools, besides Catholic, because I know how hypocritical most from there are.

[Matt Letourneau]

I don't think anyone objects to bringing in a Division I transfer who chooses to leave his school.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.  There is a big leap between that and bringing in somebody who has been arrested for dealing drugs and sits out 2 years, one year after having another questionable player come in and get busted for the same thing.

This issue has no more to do with Catholic than any other team in the league.  I suspect the other teams in the league would probably object to your assertion that its now time for St. Mary's to "assume the mantle," especially considering that one of them went to the Final Four last year.

And if you want to get into Sean Tuohey, I believe he transfered from Lehigh in 1996 or 97--4-5 years before CUA won its championship, not one year.  You are comparing Sean Tuohey, who has been nationally recognized for his work with Playing for Peace, to somebody who was kicked out of school for dealing drugs...sorry, that dog doesn't hunt.

And while he was a solid player, to argue that CUA's run to Salem was somehow brought about because he transfered to CUA is absurd.  I don't think too many Division I schools were after Pat Maloney...

[bbald eagle]

the best school in this conference academically ... No offense to any other schools, besides Catholic ...

Seahawks -

No offense? Do you expect all to agree are you just picking a different fight?

What's your standard? Do you want the schools to each concede St. M's is the best in the CAC academically?

Here's a comparison of St. M's and UMW entering classes this year:

St. Mary's entering class in 2005: 490 students; 3.62 median H.S. GPA; SAT: 1170-1310 (middle 50%)   http://www.smcm.edu/admissions/2005class.cfm

Mary Washington entering class in 2005: 914 students; 3.67 mean H.S. GPA; Sat: 1160 - 1300  (middle 50%); 1226 (Mean) http://www.umw.edu/admissions/undergraduate/entering_class_profile_fal.php

[muchacho]

Sometimes you get a Chris Carter sometimes you get a Lawrence Phillips.

Nice line kitchenrat. There are a lot of people who go through hard times, and just because not all of them will turn out right, doesn't mean that they shouldn't get second chances.

No offense to any other schools, besides Catholic, because I know how hypocritical most from there are

From seahawks...Stupid comment. You can't make an accurate judgment about "most" people from Catholic, just like Letourneau can't make an accurate judgment on Lesesne from a newspaper article. If you disagree with Matt, don't go thinking he is a spokesperson for Catholic University.
Matt's comments about Lesesne being a ringer are idiotic. Lesesne isn't a professional player or a guy who has used up his ability. There is nothing against the rules with him playing for SMC. Picking up a D-I castoff is good recruiting for a DIII school. Now its up to the team, the university and the student to make sure he stays straight and gets through school.

[Coach C]

sehawks -

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Of course that post was necessary.  It gives people some context about the player in question. 

Let me ask you a question - if he has worked so hard and is a changed man, why isnt he back playing scholarship basketball?

C

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Could you all just let it go!!!

We aren't even a month into the season and already people are throwing insults around; trying to find dirt on other schools; and completely acting like idiots!

OK, so he got caught with drugs that police believed were to be distributed.
OK, he sat out two years.
OK, he couldn't find a ride at a DIII school... OR CHOSE NOT TO!
OK, he is playing for SMC and contributing greatly to them.

We now know the facts, we can now move on.

I would argue (MATT!!!) that this is NOT the same as last year... since the player in question last year had more than one black mark on his record... he had a pattern. And then repeated that pattern and was no longer on the team (what I heard off the record, it was very different than this case).

He is on the team and you better find a way to guard him. I will admit, Matt, it looks questionable when your teams gets smoked and you immediately decide to inform the world that the reason has to be this player who you obviously aren't going to give a second chance. There is nothing wrong with looking up that information and letting me know about it. However, the way you went about doing it didn't look informational to me... rather a way to embarrass someone.

Now... MOVE ON!

As far as the comment about CUA's dominance possibly ending... it already did. YCP won the championship last year - beating CUA all THREE times they faced them (by an average of 12 points a game)!

Now... predictions for tomorrow:
GOU vs. GAL - Gophers win by three. Close and could go both ways, but the Gophers are due for a win.
MMT vs. CUA - Cardinals by 12. Marymount doesn't look good right now, and despite the lose on Wed., the Cards are a good team.
UMW vs. SMC - Eagles by 5. I am very tempted to pick the Seahawks in this game, since they are at home and because of their recent addition. But I am going to take UMW because of their experience.
SMC and SAL not playing each other!

[Coach C]

d-mac -

I am completely outside the situation and I think it's appropriate that things like this are out in the open rather than just rumored.  It's the most fair thing to all concerned.

SMC is not the only team in D3 with a pattern of 'recruiting guys with backgrond problems' or 'giving guys secon chances' depending on how you look at it.

I am not sure which is the case here, but I htink it's only fair that the story is out there.

C

[Matt Letourneau]

Uhh, D-Mac, Catholic didn't play St. Mary's Wed, they played Mary Washington.

Actually, Catholic doesn't even play SMC until the middle of January sometime.  And I'm quite confident that with or without Lesense CUA is going to do just fine against them.

So what are you talking about? I have no particular motive, unless you think I'm trying to avenge Marymount's narrow loss to St. Mary's.  You know how much I love the Saints...

I take nothing away from York, but it takes more than one season to establish yourself as the dominant team in the league. Talk to me in a couple of years.  They were the best team in the league last year, that's for sure.  But CUA has won 20 games 9 years in a row.

[Pat Coleman]

My question is, what was the outcome of the charges? That's what's more important, not the fact that charges were filed.

[cugrad]

GO CARDS!!!

[mlb]

No offense gang, but this is worst than most high school forums.

I know that I am new to this conference and don't have a history.  It seems that you guys spend so much time trying to rip down each other that it is no wonder that the conference doesn't get the recognition it deserves.

I saw VWC first hand last year.  They were a good team.  York beats them in the tourney and now another CAC team beats them.  Yet, I see posts saying that the CAC is nowhere near the conference that the ODAC is.

CUA stunk against UMW.  I think that they got too high off of their 4-0 start and their win vs. Scranton.  Also, I don't believe that they were ready to play conference basketball.  I came from the midwest and was an active Big 10 fan back when they were one of, if not the top conference in the country.  Every team would go out and have great non-conference records - there were years when all 10 (pre Penn State) teams would combine for less than 10 losses.  Then the conference season comes and they beat up on each other.  They still placed 6 teams out of ten in the NCAA tourney.

I am not suggesting that the CAC is comparable to the Big Ten.  I am suggesting that the conference has some good teams and some good ballplayers.

I am a CUA fan because my son plays for the team.  I hate to see them lose, but I am more of a basketball fan and enjoy seeing good basketball games.

As to a D-I transfer who has had trouble in the past, I have no problem provided that the transfer and second chance are done within the rules.  Same academic standards, same financial assistance, etc.

Overall, I understand that the NCAA is focusing on "cleaning up" D-III athletics.  For years, alumni scholarships have been used to attract athletes with money not generally available to others and with virtually no "rules".  That needs to be cleaned up in order to create a fair playing field.  If everything is done on the "up and up", then we can literally say "let the best team win".

As to CUA being overrated, I suggest that the argument be that there are other quality teams in the conference which should also be rated.  Maybe the top 4 or 5 teams in the CAC would compete very well if placed in some of the other leagues and there should be more teams given national recognition.  York was in the top 4 last year and CUA won it 5 years ago - that's good for the league.

[muchacho]

CUA bounced back after losing to UMW. I believe the final was 90-45. Catholic was up 51-18 at the half, and despite a surge by Marymount to start the second half, CUA had no problems at all pulling away down the stretch. Catholic got a good effort from everybody who saw the floor, especially Stephen Wheeler on the boards.
Charles Atakora looked good for MU, but he seemed to be the only one playing well today. MU couldn't handle CUA's big guys and Atakora fouled out with about 10 minutes to play.
Good win by Catholic to even it up in the conference.