MBB: Coast 2 Coast Athletic Conference

[unreallawns]

I have heard the same thing about the Goucher transfers.  Supposedly a couple of big men.

[muchacho]

Just saw the Davidson-St. Mary's score on the bottom line. Doesn't look like St. Mary's did too well.

http://www2.davidson.edu/athletics/prog_mv/mvbsk/mbskseasons/2005-06/boxes/050608.htm

The box shows Valdez Preston had a big game against the D-I school with 25 points and 7 rebounds.
While Catholic was able to hold their own with Davidson in terms of rebounding, St. Mary's was dominated 48-27. Comparitively it looks like Catholic put out a better defensive effort against Davidson than St. Mary's, but neither team did real well offensively.

[mlb]

It's hard to "evaluate" the performance of either St. Mary's or Catholic at Davidson.  It looks like St. Mary's struggled with them in both halves while CUA was able to play close to even in the 2nd half.

I guess that my rant will continue.  I see virtually no benefit - other than possible $$$ - of a D-III school playing a D-I school.  Most good D-III programs have at least 1 or 2 kids that could have played at the D-I level.  Maybe not as a "star", but certainly as a contributor.  However, the depth of the D-III program will never compete with a solid D-I program like Davidson. 

The unfortunate part is that I believe the subjective nature of the NCAA selection process - especially in D-III - is impacted by this decision.  When you look at the polls, there are votes cast based strictly upon overall record or prior/existing bias.  Generally, I don't really care about the polls.  However, they have influence over who gets to play in the post-season.  The unfortunate part is that unlike D-I, most of the voters have never seen the teams that they vote on play.  There is no television coverage.  Occasionally, there is a press release (sometimes it is even well written).  Most of the time, the voters make their selection based on a box score and historical knowledge and the bias builds over the year.

It will be interesting to see how the pollsters react to the tournament in Ashland next week.  R-MC is hosting a tournament with St. John Fishers and Lincoln.  Three teams in the current top 25 and at least 2 will add at least one loss.

Enough rambling.  Sorry for the rant, I shouldn't even post.  Bottom line is that the CAC is screwing itself by it's better teams going outside the conference and playing D-I opponents rather than taking on D-III teams from other conferences.  If the latter took place, there would at least be some form of empirical evidence from which to judge to the relative strength of the conference.

[Coach C]

mlb -

You are a brilliant man!

C

[Matt Letourneau]

St. Marys has a tough contest tonight at Davidson.  They will be playing without Tommy Bushell tonight due to illness so that makes them even more undersized then they already were to begin with.  Gonna quite a performance to make this a good game I would assume after seeing that Catholic was already blown out of the gym down in NC.  Hopefully SMC can play well and give them a run for their money...... good luck boys, play hard

spread Davidson -24.5

Catholic didn't get 'blown out of the gym' in North Carolina.  They lost by 24 points...more than respectable.  And that's while shooting 16 percent in the first half.  The 2nd half CUA was only -8.  Sure, Davidson might have eased up a little bit, but their coach after the game commented that it was a competitive game that was closer than the final score indicated.   To put it in perspective, Catholic beat Marymount by 39, and that was with major easing up in the 2nd half.

Now, if you want to talk about being blown out of the gym, 112-59 would qualify--SMC lost by more than TWICE as much as Catholic did.   Catholic proved they can at least play defense with a good mid-level D1 team, St. Mary's didn't prove anything.

As for whether either team should have played this game, I'd have to disagree, at least when it comes to Catholic.  The object is not to get into the Top 25 poll (though that helps), its to get into the NCAA Tournament.  Come selection time, the NCAA completely disregards this game. It doesn't help or hurt Catholic.  Its played in December so its not fresh in anyone's mind.  Remember, the selection process for the D3 tournament is not the same as the D1 tourney.  Its weighed very heavily towards n-region games--if you were to play a good D3 team outside of your region--say, Williams or something, winning that game wouldn't do much for you either.

Why not allow your players a chance to see how they stack up against the 'big boys.'  How does Shane Sowden feel now knowing that he was the leading scorer against a D1 team?  Its not bad for recruiting.  Actually, its huge for recruiting when you consider the 'off the court' impact that game has.

As long as you can take away positives, I'm all in favor of playing this sort of game.  They key is that your team is good enough to actually be competitive.   There's a stronger argument against St. Mary's not playing...they got blown out, and I really don't know that you can take much positive out of their game.  But its still early enough to be able to learn from the mistakes you made in a game.  You have to play the best teams in order to learn how to beat them.  Catholic is never going to see another team that good, but that doesn't mean they can't learn from what happened in that game, maybe anticipate certain things better, etc.


And remember, CUA actually has beaten a D1 team (Albany)--that was a huge morale boost for the program.  So as much as I like and respect the two previous posters, this time I don't see it their way.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

"Hey recruit... once in awhile we play against a Division I school... we hardly ever win and usually lose by an average of 20 points. So, I can promise you that one game a year... your playing - minimum. Can't garuntee the rest of the season since we have lost one game in our schedule with that D1 game... so we have to really concentrate and not lose any more regional games. I really should use that one game I wasted to schedule a regional opponent so I have a better chance to make the playoffs. You understand."

Hmm - recruiting tool???

I'm sorry, but I don't buy the whole recruiting tool argument with D1 games. The player is coming to a D3 school for a reason. So, we can already assume D1 isn't interesting him that much. What does he want to tell his parents... "hey, we're playing Duke tonight... I should be able to play because we are going to get our butts whipped by the fifth minute"?

Great, so you are playing a D1 team... but the recruiting should be based on how you do in your conference, region, and playoffs (should you get there). One game isn't going to make or break a decision. If one team said they played a D1 school and never made the playoffs and the other played a D1 school and always made the playoffs (or the same scenario with or with out a D1 game), I am betting the player is going to choose the team that he thinks may win a title.

OH!!! And he might be picking the best SCHOOL for him! Since this is Division III and these are STUDENT-athletes (not to be confused with Division I's ATHLETIC-students).

Sorry... that D1 game means less than playing an out-of-region opponent.

Oh, and by the way... take a look next year at tournaments. I am on the fence on this, but if CUA or someone wants to head to California to take on some teams from all over the country... count those in your Regional Games column!!!

[Matt Letourneau]

I was trying to not $o $ubtley point on the po$itive impact on recruiting.

[mlb]

Matt

Guess what?  We know that it's always "all about the money"!

You're right, the kids in the program like to put themselves up against D-I competition.  The program benefits because of the $$$.  I guess that my position is a little bit personal.  I hate to lose, don't believe in "moral victories" and believe greatly in "momentum".  On that basis, I have a hard time supporting the D-I scheduling.

I would much rather see a regional game against someone from a purportedly "tough" conference within the region.  There are only so many "at-large" bids available and the strength of the conference weighs heavily in that decision.  Playing a D-I team does nothing to improve their position.  And, by the way, it does not specifically factor into the recruiting process.

Anyhow, the next few days should be interesting.  As I said, a big tourney down at R-MC this weekend (Sunday & Monday).  I think that Lincoln is for real and just doesn't have a history and we'll see how St. John's Fisher fits into that group.

[unreallawns]

Did Lincoln get a new coach in the last year or two?

[mlb]

I don't know anything about the coaching situation at Lincoln, but I imagine you could tell by looking at their website.

Can anyone explain the Top 25 and UW-Oshkosh?  They are two last second baskets away from being 2-5 (they are actually now 4-3), yet they are ranked number 25 in the nation.  Who is promoting them?

UW-Steven Point and UW-Whitewater are both better in conference and in region yet they fall below them in the polls. 

Why is there such a midwest following?  I am not so sure that the basketball is all that much better in the midwest vs. the east coast.  I am just curious as to how much impact "local bias" has on the votes.

[unreallawns]

Lincoln does in fact have a new coach who is in his second year.  The reason I asked was because in the past, Lincoln has had good players on their team but they never really that good.  Obviously the new coach is turning around the program.  Today's game against RMC should be a good one.

[mwgoonie]

Let's see UMW get some quality games out in Vegas - Win or lose..

However, I'm more interested in seeing whether Mike Lee comes alive to join Justin Baker as top scorer.

To those lucky MW alum going out to support the team - have fun and be safe out in Vegas.

Especially you, Pete.

[Coach C]

unreallawns -

Coach Yulle (sp) has been around Lincoln for a few years, but this is only his second year as head coach.  He seems to have things headed in the right direction and also to have strong campus support.

C

[Titan Q]

mlb, UW-Oshkosh was everyone's preseason favorite in the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, the best league in the nation.  The Titans finished 19-8/11-5 last year and returned everyone. 

http://www.uwsa.edu/wiac/mbasket/0506menprev.pdf

For some reason, Oshkosh is not clicking yet in 2005-06, but you do have to take a look at who they're playing.  The 3 losses are @ #8 Lawrence in OT, @ the 2-time NCAA Division III defending national champs UW-Stevens Point, and to #12 UW-Stout by 3, the team most now consider the early WIAC favorite.  Oshkosh won a non-conference game on the road last night vs Carroll, a team I have heard people say is every bit as good as #8 Lawrence, also from the MWC.

I think the voters are smart enough to know that you demonstrate a little patience with a team that is talented enough to win the WIAC, and without question the Titans have that kind of talent.  There are not 25 teams in the country better than UW-Oshkosh.  Just from a pure size standpoint, they are a load...

G Chad Doedens (6-2/185, Jr)
G Andy Jahnke (6-3/200, Sr)
F Nathan Wesener (6-7/205, Jr)
F Jim Capelle (6-7/240, Jr)
C Kerry Gibson (7-1/245, Jr)

[Titan Q]

As far as "midwest vs east", I assume you mean that in common geographic terms as opposed to the actual Division III regions of the Midwest and East.  Teams from the midwest states have won 11 of the last 15 and 21 of the 31 total Division III titles (all but those in bold)...

2005: UW-Stevens Point
2004: UW-Stevens Point
2003: Williams
2002: Otterbein
2001: Catholic
2000: Calvin
1999: UW-Platteville
1998: UW-Platteville
1997: Illinois Wesleyan
1996: Rowan
1995: UW-Platteville
1994: Lebanon Valley
1993: Ohio Northern
1992: Calvin
1991: UW-Platteville
1990: Rochester
1989: UW-Whitewater
1988: Ohio Wesleyan
1987: North Park
1986: Potsdam
1985: North Park
1984: UW-Whitewater
1983: Scranton
1982: Wabash
1981: Potsdam
1980: North Park
1979: North Park
1978: North Park
1977: Wittenberg
1976: Scranton
1975: Lemoyne-Owen


The midwest states include some real Division III powers, such as Wooster, Wittenberg, Calvin, Hope, Illinios Wesleyan, John Carroll, Ohio Northern, Hanover, UW-Platteville, UW-Stevens Point, UW-Oshkosh, and many others.  The 3 best conferences are also located in this part of the country - the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (WIAC), the College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin (CCIW), and the Ohio Athletic Conference (OAC).