MBB: Coast 2 Coast Athletic Conference

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Blame the NCAA... you do realize the ones who make the rules and the guidelines for how the NCAA is to operate are the schools themselves, right? So the guidelines and rules to these tournaments are discussed, endorsed, and approved by the schools. This isn't some people in the NCAA headquarters making things up. They follow what the schools and Division tells them to do. Things get changed in Division III all the time. That is what the NCAA Convention is for... but it isn't like the Division has a ton of cash to throw around. There was a time we all complained that we did was play regional teams ... teams we had spent all season playing in the first place ... in the NCAA Tournament. They changed that... spent more money doing it... and now we hear complaints about teams not being at home but traveling.

I get that fans can't travel, but it isn't like you could follow your D1 team, either, right? I mean, are you going to head out to the Midwest to follow your team for a Thursday/Saturday battle? If you have work and it affects your D3 schedule, it affects your D1 schedule as well.

Sure, CNU isn't at home... but again, that isn't the NCAA's fault. Go through the entire bracket and tell me how CNU would have been at home (outside of the women getting the hosting rights the first weekend; that is a non-starter with me because we aren't going to take opportunities away from either gender in favor of the other gender).

And last year it took some massive upsets for it not to be at CNU. Marietta could get to CNU by bus... if they had won, there was a VERY good chance it was coming to CNU. Sometimes the teams who play the games change the circumstances. Plain and simpe.

I understand being upset, but I do not think you have a legitimate grip. CNU's problems pale in comparison to those in Texas, California, or the NWC. They aren't even on the same playing field compared to their challenges.

And it certainly isn't pitiful. You probably haven't been around Division III long enough to understand what pitiful really is. We are so far past pitiful... we are in a day in age where CNU can actually be flown somewhere. That should be celebrated not hated because you can't make the game. Sorry to be blunt. We also can see the games on our computers now... there was a time you couldn't even hear the game on a computer let alone the radio. True Dark Ages.

Sure... it is too bad CNU isn't at home. It would have been an interesting debate, though, on whether Babson or CNU would have hosted. They were both #1s in their regions. Not a given CNU would have hosted if flights had nothing to do with it.

But again... this isn't the NCAA making it harder. We asked for a more national tournament over the course of the last twenty years. That is what we now have. It sucks your team can't be at home, but it is a legitimate grip in my opinion and it isn't pitiful. I understand and appreciate your frustration and displeasure... but that is a far different.

Looks like Babson was #2 in the final rankings....

The bottom line is, the NCAA puts money ahead of complete and total fairness, which is sad...as a long time, passionate fan of CNU, I know these opportunities are far and few between, and it's a shame when a team is not rewarded for their accomplishments because of financial implications.

No, really the d3 priority is that athletes be students first.  It comes through in the recruitment and contact rules.  It comes through in travel.  We're used to our sports being maximized for "fairness," but that's not the Division III philosophy.  Minimizing travel is a core tenet of the division.  Yes, the committee's job is to maximize fairness, but they have to do so within the limits of the division that aren't as concerned with those things.

Yes, it's more travel for teams geographically isolated, but it's less for everyone else.  It helps to look through the lens of "student" when viewing how d3 does things.  They're working as hard as they can to make sure d3 student athletes are students first.  That's what I love about the division, personally, but I'm sorry your guys are getting the raw end of it.

...again!  Flying the #1 seed from southeastern VA to NY, then MA in consecutive years is totally unfair to CNU however you slice it...as they say, though, life ain't fair!  CNU has a chance to win the sectional at Babson, and I hope they do, which would truly be just!

Well, if they need some bulletin board fodder, I can provide it (it seems I've done plenty of that already).  I love CNU.  I love the team, the coach, the guys.  They're on the region I live on and covered for a couple years.  Aaron McFarland is one the best people I've covered and seen playing d3.  That being said, I have real reservations about them coming through in big games.  I've not seen Daly step up this year - he's certainly been good throughout, but that extra level hasn't been as evident as I would've expected.  Carter showing up last weekend is a good sign, but in these pressure packed weekends, it's tough to pick them - even though I think they've got the best team on paper.  Facing Keene and potentially Babson - two teams who have really over-performed in big moments - that's going to be a tough call.

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to travel this weekend - family commitments - but if I do, it'll be to that sectional.  I think it's got the best talent overall and the best matchups throughout.  Any of the teams is capable of winning it, but I think I'd lean Babson over CNU on Saturday, if I'm picking.

Muhaha!!!!! Fodder!

I already had teams call me out twice for things I didn't even mean to be fodder.  But I'd be happy if CNU proved me wrong, because I like those guys and I'd love to see them in Salem again.  Honestly, though, it's tough not to like most every team.  Great players, great coaches, great stories.

[Swish3]

Blame the NCAA... you do realize the ones who make the rules and the guidelines for how the NCAA is to operate are the schools themselves, right? So the guidelines and rules to these tournaments are discussed, endorsed, and approved by the schools. This isn't some people in the NCAA headquarters making things up. They follow what the schools and Division tells them to do. Things get changed in Division III all the time. That is what the NCAA Convention is for... but it isn't like the Division has a ton of cash to throw around. There was a time we all complained that we did was play regional teams ... teams we had spent all season playing in the first place ... in the NCAA Tournament. They changed that... spent more money doing it... and now we hear complaints about teams not being at home but traveling.

I get that fans can't travel, but it isn't like you could follow your D1 team, either, right? I mean, are you going to head out to the Midwest to follow your team for a Thursday/Saturday battle? If you have work and it affects your D3 schedule, it affects your D1 schedule as well.

Sure, CNU isn't at home... but again, that isn't the NCAA's fault. Go through the entire bracket and tell me how CNU would have been at home (outside of the women getting the hosting rights the first weekend; that is a non-starter with me because we aren't going to take opportunities away from either gender in favor of the other gender).

And last year it took some massive upsets for it not to be at CNU. Marietta could get to CNU by bus... if they had won, there was a VERY good chance it was coming to CNU. Sometimes the teams who play the games change the circumstances. Plain and simpe.

I understand being upset, but I do not think you have a legitimate grip. CNU's problems pale in comparison to those in Texas, California, or the NWC. They aren't even on the same playing field compared to their challenges.

And it certainly isn't pitiful. You probably haven't been around Division III long enough to understand what pitiful really is. We are so far past pitiful... we are in a day in age where CNU can actually be flown somewhere. That should be celebrated not hated because you can't make the game. Sorry to be blunt. We also can see the games on our computers now... there was a time you couldn't even hear the game on a computer let alone the radio. True Dark Ages.

Sure... it is too bad CNU isn't at home. It would have been an interesting debate, though, on whether Babson or CNU would have hosted. They were both #1s in their regions. Not a given CNU would have hosted if flights had nothing to do with it.

But again... this isn't the NCAA making it harder. We asked for a more national tournament over the course of the last twenty years. That is what we now have. It sucks your team can't be at home, but it is a legitimate grip in my opinion and it isn't pitiful. I understand and appreciate your frustration and displeasure... but that is a far different.

Looks like Babson was #2 in the final rankings....

The bottom line is, the NCAA puts money ahead of complete and total fairness, which is sad...as a long time, passionate fan of CNU, I know these opportunities are far and few between, and it's a shame when a team is not rewarded for their accomplishments because of financial implications.

No, really the d3 priority is that athletes be students first.  It comes through in the recruitment and contact rules.  It comes through in travel.  We're used to our sports being maximized for "fairness," but that's not the Division III philosophy.  Minimizing travel is a core tenet of the division.  Yes, the committee's job is to maximize fairness, but they have to do so within the limits of the division that aren't as concerned with those things.

Yes, it's more travel for teams geographically isolated, but it's less for everyone else.  It helps to look through the lens of "student" when viewing how d3 does things.  They're working as hard as they can to make sure d3 student athletes are students first.  That's what I love about the division, personally, but I'm sorry your guys are getting the raw end of it.

...again!  Flying the #1 seed from southeastern VA to NY, then MA in consecutive years is totally unfair to CNU however you slice it...as they say, though, life ain't fair!  CNU has a chance to win the sectional at Babson, and I hope they do, which would truly be just!

Well, if they need some bulletin board fodder, I can provide it (it seems I've done plenty of that already).  I love CNU.  I love the team, the coach, the guys.  They're on the region I live on and covered for a couple years.  Aaron McFarland is one the best people I've covered and seen playing d3.  That being said, I have real reservations about them coming through in big games.  I've not seen Daly step up this year - he's certainly been good throughout, but that extra level hasn't been as evident as I would've expected.  Carter showing up last weekend is a good sign, but in these pressure packed weekends, it's tough to pick them - even though I think they've got the best team on paper.  Facing Keene and potentially Babson - two teams who have really over-performed in big moments - that's going to be a tough call.

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to travel this weekend - family commitments - but if I do, it'll be to that sectional.  I think it's got the best talent overall and the best matchups throughout.  Any of the teams is capable of winning it, but I think I'd lean Babson over CNU on Saturday, if I'm picking.

Well, you did pick Salisbury to make it to the Final Four, so I'm glad you're picking against CNU...

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Blame the NCAA... you do realize the ones who make the rules and the guidelines for how the NCAA is to operate are the schools themselves, right? So the guidelines and rules to these tournaments are discussed, endorsed, and approved by the schools. This isn't some people in the NCAA headquarters making things up. They follow what the schools and Division tells them to do. Things get changed in Division III all the time. That is what the NCAA Convention is for... but it isn't like the Division has a ton of cash to throw around. There was a time we all complained that we did was play regional teams ... teams we had spent all season playing in the first place ... in the NCAA Tournament. They changed that... spent more money doing it... and now we hear complaints about teams not being at home but traveling.

I get that fans can't travel, but it isn't like you could follow your D1 team, either, right? I mean, are you going to head out to the Midwest to follow your team for a Thursday/Saturday battle? If you have work and it affects your D3 schedule, it affects your D1 schedule as well.

Sure, CNU isn't at home... but again, that isn't the NCAA's fault. Go through the entire bracket and tell me how CNU would have been at home (outside of the women getting the hosting rights the first weekend; that is a non-starter with me because we aren't going to take opportunities away from either gender in favor of the other gender).

And last year it took some massive upsets for it not to be at CNU. Marietta could get to CNU by bus... if they had won, there was a VERY good chance it was coming to CNU. Sometimes the teams who play the games change the circumstances. Plain and simpe.

I understand being upset, but I do not think you have a legitimate grip. CNU's problems pale in comparison to those in Texas, California, or the NWC. They aren't even on the same playing field compared to their challenges.

And it certainly isn't pitiful. You probably haven't been around Division III long enough to understand what pitiful really is. We are so far past pitiful... we are in a day in age where CNU can actually be flown somewhere. That should be celebrated not hated because you can't make the game. Sorry to be blunt. We also can see the games on our computers now... there was a time you couldn't even hear the game on a computer let alone the radio. True Dark Ages.

Sure... it is too bad CNU isn't at home. It would have been an interesting debate, though, on whether Babson or CNU would have hosted. They were both #1s in their regions. Not a given CNU would have hosted if flights had nothing to do with it.

But again... this isn't the NCAA making it harder. We asked for a more national tournament over the course of the last twenty years. That is what we now have. It sucks your team can't be at home, but it is a legitimate grip in my opinion and it isn't pitiful. I understand and appreciate your frustration and displeasure... but that is a far different.

Looks like Babson was #2 in the final rankings....

The bottom line is, the NCAA puts money ahead of complete and total fairness, which is sad...as a long time, passionate fan of CNU, I know these opportunities are far and few between, and it's a shame when a team is not rewarded for their accomplishments because of financial implications.

No, really the d3 priority is that athletes be students first.  It comes through in the recruitment and contact rules.  It comes through in travel.  We're used to our sports being maximized for "fairness," but that's not the Division III philosophy.  Minimizing travel is a core tenet of the division.  Yes, the committee's job is to maximize fairness, but they have to do so within the limits of the division that aren't as concerned with those things.

Yes, it's more travel for teams geographically isolated, but it's less for everyone else.  It helps to look through the lens of "student" when viewing how d3 does things.  They're working as hard as they can to make sure d3 student athletes are students first.  That's what I love about the division, personally, but I'm sorry your guys are getting the raw end of it.

...again!  Flying the #1 seed from southeastern VA to NY, then MA in consecutive years is totally unfair to CNU however you slice it...as they say, though, life ain't fair!  CNU has a chance to win the sectional at Babson, and I hope they do, which would truly be just!

Well, if they need some bulletin board fodder, I can provide it (it seems I've done plenty of that already).  I love CNU.  I love the team, the coach, the guys.  They're on the region I live on and covered for a couple years.  Aaron McFarland is one the best people I've covered and seen playing d3.  That being said, I have real reservations about them coming through in big games.  I've not seen Daly step up this year - he's certainly been good throughout, but that extra level hasn't been as evident as I would've expected.  Carter showing up last weekend is a good sign, but in these pressure packed weekends, it's tough to pick them - even though I think they've got the best team on paper.  Facing Keene and potentially Babson - two teams who have really over-performed in big moments - that's going to be a tough call.

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to travel this weekend - family commitments - but if I do, it'll be to that sectional.  I think it's got the best talent overall and the best matchups throughout.  Any of the teams is capable of winning it, but I think I'd lean Babson over CNU on Saturday, if I'm picking.

Well, you did pick Salisbury to make it to the Final Four, so I'm glad you're picking against CNU...

I do have every game in CNU's bracket correct so far.

[Swish3]

I think CNU's currently playing at a high level...just need to shoot free throws better.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Swish3... the complaint about a team being higher ranked and flying to another location is weak in Division III. If you would like me to go through every single example of when this has happened because of the rules that govern Division III... I will be up all night.

Before I drop in some examples, I was told by the committee chair they were treating Babson as the top seed in this part of the bracket despite their location in the bracket. Yes, I see Babson was moved to #2 in the region, but Middlebury isn't in this part of the bracket so that makes it irrelevent. Further, when it comes to deciding hosts with all things equal, many times a lower ranked team in another region will be selected over a #1 in another. In fact, it nearly happened on the women's side (before the travel dictated another solution). The women's committee debated and discussed apparently for half an hour whether Geneseo or Ohio Northern should host. Geneseo #1 in East; ONU #2 in Great Lakes. The committee was split. They eventually went with Geneseo in a close vote, but then had to go with ONU because of travel.

Speaking of which, Geneseo and Trinity are both on the road this weekend besides being #1s in their regions. One of them happens to be playing at a #2.

On the men's sie, Whitman is pretty much #1 in the entire bracket. They are traveling to Marietta. Heck, #2 Hanover is the highest ranked team in their bracket. Instead of playing Hope at thier place, they are traveling TO Hope for their game.

As I have said before, things are FAR fairer now, but if you are going to complain about it at least get some of the facts straight. CNU wasn't being treated as the top seed in this bracket. Babson and Tufts were considered higher, so I didn't see how CNU was going to host anyway. But what matters more than anything is that they get fair matchups and so far they absolutely have had fairer matchups based on the NCAA criteria.

Also as Ryan mentioned, this is about the experiences the student-athletes get. How many on the team have been to Boston? How many were probably going to go to Boston? The committee doesn't care if it hurts the fans. If the NCAA cared about those things, the D1 tournament would look a HELL of a lot different. This is about the experience for the students and considering the restrictions on Division III because they are students first, I think it is awesome that we now have a tournament that can have these matchups. Thanks to web streaming, we can see them too.

Does it suck you can't make the game? Sure. Does it suck that the team can't be at home? Sure, but they have indicated in the past that isn't the end of the world for them. This is Division III. It isn't going to be spend money now and ask questions later. We live in era that allows a lot more spending thanks very much to the Turner/CBS deal with Division I basketball. But we can't just spend money how ever we want it like sending everyone to CNU.

But again... from what the committee told me... this was Babson's bracket to rule, not CNU's.

[CNU85]

Swish3... the complaint about a team being higher ranked and flying to another location is weak in Division III. If you would like me to go through every single example of when this has happened because of the rules that govern Division III... I will be up all night.

Before I drop in some examples, I was told by the committee chair they were treating Babson as the top seed in this part of the bracket despite their location in the bracket. Yes, I see Babson was moved to #2 in the region, but Middlebury isn't in this part of the bracket so that makes it irrelevent. Further, when it comes to deciding hosts with all things equal, many times a lower ranked team in another region will be selected over a #1 in another. In fact, it nearly happened on the women's side (before the travel dictated another solution). The women's committee debated and discussed apparently for half an hour whether Geneseo or Ohio Northern should host. Geneseo #1 in East; ONU #2 in Great Lakes. The committee was split. They eventually went with Geneseo in a close vote, but then had to go with ONU because of travel.

Speaking of which, Geneseo and Trinity are both on the road this weekend besides being #1s in their regions. One of them happens to be playing at a #2.

On the men's sie, Whitman is pretty much #1 in the entire bracket. They are traveling to Marietta. Heck, #2 Hanover is the highest ranked team in their bracket. Instead of playing Hope at thier place, they are traveling TO Hope for their game.

As I have said before, things are FAR fairer now, but if you are going to complain about it at least get some of the facts straight. CNU wasn't being treated as the top seed in this bracket. Babson and Tufts were considered higher, so I didn't see how CNU was going to host anyway. But what matters more than anything is that they get fair matchups and so far they absolutely have had fairer matchups based on the NCAA criteria.

Also as Ryan mentioned, this is about the experiences the student-athletes get. How many on the team have been to Boston? How many were probably going to go to Boston? The committee doesn't care if it hurts the fans. If the NCAA cared about those things, the D1 tournament would look a HELL of a lot different. This is about the experience for the students and considering the restrictions on Division III because they are students first, I think it is awesome that we now have a tournament that can have these matchups. Thanks to web streaming, we can see them too.

Does it suck you can't make the game? Sure. Does it suck that the team can't be at home? Sure, but they have indicated in the past that isn't the end of the world for them. This is Division III. It isn't going to be spend money now and ask questions later. We live in era that allows a lot more spending thanks very much to the Turner/CBS deal with Division I basketball. But we can't just spend money how ever we want it like sending everyone to CNU.

But again... from what the committee told me... this was Babson's bracket to rule, not CNU's.

And looking at the bright side of things.....by staying home for the game, I can drink beer during the game!

[Swish3]

Swish3... the complaint about a team being higher ranked and flying to another location is weak in Division III. If you would like me to go through every single example of when this has happened because of the rules that govern Division III... I will be up all night.

Before I drop in some examples, I was told by the committee chair they were treating Babson as the top seed in this part of the bracket despite their location in the bracket. Yes, I see Babson was moved to #2 in the region, but Middlebury isn't in this part of the bracket so that makes it irrelevent. Further, when it comes to deciding hosts with all things equal, many times a lower ranked team in another region will be selected over a #1 in another. In fact, it nearly happened on the women's side (before the travel dictated another solution). The women's committee debated and discussed apparently for half an hour whether Geneseo or Ohio Northern should host. Geneseo #1 in East; ONU #2 in Great Lakes. The committee was split. They eventually went with Geneseo in a close vote, but then had to go with ONU because of travel.

Speaking of which, Geneseo and Trinity are both on the road this weekend besides being #1s in their regions. One of them happens to be playing at a #2.

On the men's sie, Whitman is pretty much #1 in the entire bracket. They are traveling to Marietta. Heck, #2 Hanover is the highest ranked team in their bracket. Instead of playing Hope at thier place, they are traveling TO Hope for their game.

As I have said before, things are FAR fairer now, but if you are going to complain about it at least get some of the facts straight. CNU wasn't being treated as the top seed in this bracket. Babson and Tufts were considered higher, so I didn't see how CNU was going to host anyway. But what matters more than anything is that they get fair matchups and so far they absolutely have had fairer matchups based on the NCAA criteria.

Also as Ryan mentioned, this is about the experiences the student-athletes get. How many on the team have been to Boston? How many were probably going to go to Boston? The committee doesn't care if it hurts the fans. If the NCAA cared about those things, the D1 tournament would look a HELL of a lot different. This is about the experience for the students and considering the restrictions on Division III because they are students first, I think it is awesome that we now have a tournament that can have these matchups. Thanks to web streaming, we can see them too.

Does it suck you can't make the game? Sure. Does it suck that the team can't be at home? Sure, but they have indicated in the past that isn't the end of the world for them. This is Division III. It isn't going to be spend money now and ask questions later. We live in era that allows a lot more spending thanks very much to the Turner/CBS deal with Division I basketball. But we can't just spend money how ever we want it like sending everyone to CNU.

But again... from what the committee told me... this was Babson's bracket to rule, not CNU's.

You have the luxury of speaking w/the committee to find out...if I read Ryan's and your previous comments correctly, it seems that both of you thought CNU was the #1 seed, so I assumed they were.  Given that they're not, I can't complain about Babson hosting, as that was the basis of my whole argument...in the interest of being as fair as possible, the highest remaining seed should host, regardless of how much it costs to get the other teams there.  I will say, though, determining the #1 seed can be subjective....

[Reserved Seat]

Unfortunately, everyone has a budget, or I'd be traveling all over the world regardless of the cost.

[Swish3]

Unfortunately, everyone has a budget, or I'd be traveling all over the world regardless of the cost.

Apples and oranges, in my opinion....

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Unfortunately, everyone has a budget, or I'd be traveling all over the world regardless of the cost.

Apples and oranges, in my opinion....

Not really... the NCAA has a budget especially in Division III... keeps the tournament from having more travel and any host they wanted.

CNU was #1 in the Mid-Atlantic and Babson ended up being #2. However, they still put their numbers head-to-head to decide a host if money wasn't an option... and I think Babson would have still come out on top. I could be wrong, since I am doing it off the top of my head. The other thing, though, is we have been predicting CNU on the road for the entire tournament since the moment I saw the bracket. Trust me... CNU knew the situation as well. It is how this divisions is designed.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Unfortunately, everyone has a budget, or I'd be traveling all over the world regardless of the cost.

Apples and oranges, in my opinion....

Not really... the NCAA has a budget especially in Division III... keeps the tournament from having more travel and any host they wanted.

CNU was #1 in the Mid-Atlantic and Babson ended up being #2. However, they still put their numbers head-to-head to decide a host if money wasn't an option... and I think Babson would have still come out on top. I could be wrong, since I am doing it off the top of my head. The other thing, though, is we have been predicting CNU on the road for the entire tournament since the moment I saw the bracket. Trust me... CNU knew the situation as well. It is how this divisions is designed.

Seeding is the fourth consideration when they're looking at it - geography comes first.  CNU would've been eliminated from contention before they even got to seeding.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

To that point... those criteria for hosting are actually in an order or priority unlike the ranking criteria which does not have a priority system.

[Swish3]

Unfortunately, everyone has a budget, or I'd be traveling all over the world regardless of the cost.

Apples and oranges, in my opinion....

Not really... the NCAA has a budget especially in Division III... keeps the tournament from having more travel and any host they wanted.

CNU was #1 in the Mid-Atlantic and Babson ended up being #2. However, they still put their numbers head-to-head to decide a host if money wasn't an option... and I think Babson would have still come out on top. I could be wrong, since I am doing it off the top of my head. The other thing, though, is we have been predicting CNU on the road for the entire tournament since the moment I saw the bracket. Trust me... CNU knew the situation as well. It is how this divisions is designed.

If they really wanted to, I'm sure the NCAA could take enough money from their Division I budget to do the right thing for D III, which seems like it'd be a drop in the bucket....

Myself and the CNU coaches/players knew they weren't going to host, but once it became official, I wanted to voice my opinion on the matter....

[Swish3]

Unfortunately, everyone has a budget, or I'd be traveling all over the world regardless of the cost.

Apples and oranges, in my opinion....

Not really... the NCAA has a budget especially in Division III... keeps the tournament from having more travel and any host they wanted.

CNU was #1 in the Mid-Atlantic and Babson ended up being #2. However, they still put their numbers head-to-head to decide a host if money wasn't an option... and I think Babson would have still come out on top. I could be wrong, since I am doing it off the top of my head. The other thing, though, is we have been predicting CNU on the road for the entire tournament since the moment I saw the bracket. Trust me... CNU knew the situation as well. It is how this divisions is designed.

Seeding is the fourth consideration when they're looking at it - geography comes first.  CNU would've been eliminated from contention before they even got to seeding.

They actually use the word "geography", instead of "cheapest"?

[Swish3]

To that point... those criteria for hosting are actually in an order or priority unlike the ranking criteria which does not have a priority system.

As in, 1. cheapest, 2. cheaper, 3. cheap, 4. seeding...just having some fun, Dave...take your bp medicine.