MBB: Coast 2 Coast Athletic Conference

[CNU85]

The ODAC has 13....so does the USA South. But I'm not really sure how that works with their 2 divisions. The one closest to the CAC has 6 teams. And honestly, I'm out of touch with everything USA South. I don't have a feel of what the conference is all about and where it is heading.

[jknezek]

The ODAC has 13....so does the USA South. But I'm not really sure how that works with their 2 divisions. The one closest to the CAC has 6 teams. And honestly, I'm out of touch with everything USA South. I don't have a feel of what the conference is all about and where it is heading.

The USA South just keeps growing until they split. Seems a logical landing point for SVa eventually if they go North/South divisions or full split since the ODAC doesn't seem interested outside football, a mutual need. The ODAC prohibits public schools, so the CAC rump won't get any relief that direction without major bylaw changes. A scheduling agreement? Maybe, but the ODAC already has issues with not playing a full double round robin in sports that traditionally play that kind of schedule. So while you'd get typical OOC times, I just don't see the ODAC needing extra games during conference season.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

You could certainly play three a triple round-robin, although that would be unusual and probably not popular with coaches. Then again, to play just the eight conference games leaves you with 17 games to fill. Not impossible, but certainly difficult. They could try to enter a scheduling agreement with some other conference, especially if there is one in the area with an odd number of teams, necessitating byes.

Playing eight conference games means you could hold off beginning your conference play until late January and get all your conference games with ease, and you'd have a reasonable shot at getting non-conference games up until the beginning of January. You could give someone like Valley Forge the opportunity to play each of your teams twice, without necessarily granting them conference membership. (Finlandia did this with the UMAC for a couple of years.)

The benefits of the ACAA are pretty minimal -- let your kids compete in a conference tournament, get weekly conference honors and be on an all-conference team. It doesn't really help with scheduling.

They could do like the NAC and set up Friday-Saturday games at the same location against the same team... just do it as a home and home.  Sixteen conference games and nine out of conference.  No one would like that, but it would be convenient.

[Pat Coleman]

A quadruple round-robin? 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Scheduling is a problem potentially, but the NESCAC schools (like Middlebury) have to schedule the same amount of games each year. It isn't fun, I grant you, but there are plenty of opponents in this region to play. More money might need to be spent on tournaments away (there is a great one in Vegas, I am told), but I think it is doable at least as a stop-gap.

If we are four years into this and nothing has changed, then I think something bigger needs to be done, but I think this conference can get through the next three to four years.

There are ideas they can move towards. The USA South split (in whatever form) is only an option for SVU at best. The ODAC is not an option. The NEAC may splinter (long story for another time) and some of those schools may have no choice but to join the CAC (ironic for PSU Harrisburg). And I think there are other options (no, the NJAC super merger won't be one of those options). Heck, even the MAC could have a couple of splinters (they always get too big and then shed members). And yeah, the ACAA is not an option for a lot of reasons.

Just have to think things through and NOT overreact.

[sunny]

Scheduling is a problem potentially, but the NESCAC schools (like Middlebury) have to schedule the same amount of games each year. It isn't fun, I grant you, but there are plenty of opponents in this region to play. More money might need to be spent on tournaments away (there is a great one in Vegas, I am told), but I think it is doable at least as a stop-gap.

If we are four years into this and nothing has changed, then I think something bigger needs to be done, but I think this conference can get through the next three to four years.

There are ideas they can move towards. The USA South split (in whatever form) is only an option for SVU at best. The ODAC is not an option. The NEAC may splinter (long story for another time) and some of those schools may have no choice but to join the CAC (ironic for PSU Harrisburg). And I think there are other options (no, the NJAC super merger won't be one of those options). Heck, even the MAC could have a couple of splinters (they always get too big and then shed members). And yeah, the ACAA is not an option for a lot of reasons.

Just have to think things through and NOT overreact.

IMHO, the NESCAC comparison is a little flimsy. As you obviously know, some of those schools schedule a second game against conference opponents as a non-conference game. In the case of a five-school CAC, that additional game would be a *third* game against the same school, not second - which is obviously still an option, but not quite as attractive as Bowdoin-Bates playing twice with one being non-conference. Second, some of these NESCAC schools can basically throw a rock and hit a couple non-conference opponents. (Though I think we're obviously seeing the tipping point in college saturation in part of New England ...)

Scheduling is absolutely going to be the critical concern for Salisbury, CNU, and Mary Wash - not just in basketball but in many sports. It's tough to fill all your Saturdays with non-conference games in the back half of most sports seasons so for them, a small league is better than no league at all. Oddly, all other things being equal*, the NCAA Tournament chances for those three schools would likely go up in most sports if they go into Pool B. For St. Mary's and Southern Virginia, the scheduling AND the AQ access will be critical concerns.  So, I can see Salisbury, CNU, and Mary Wash being the most patient - while filling out a non-conference schedule while being in a five-school league will be a chore in most sports, it's still less of a chore to do so as an independent. As for SVU and SMC, I can't see them not jumping at the first chance they'd get to be in a stabilized conference, provided the geography is not completely untenable to them. Existing outside the AQ structure across the board for either of those two athletic departments for any extended period of time would not be healthy, IMHO.

So, on the one hand, yes, the two-year window is good in some ways since it buys the CAC some time -- but on the other hand that gives SMC and SVU two years to find other options. I can't imagine they want to exist for anything more than a year floating in Pool B without having a definitive Pool A home locked up. I honestly think this is a race between one or both of those two schools finding another home versus the CAC lining up more members. That doesn't even account for the possibility of something like one of those "big three" pulling a Frostburg, but I don't see that as necessarily any better for them on the surface ... but, hey, how many people five years ago would have thought Frostburg was going to go DII?

In short, I'll agree with other posters who have intimated that all options have to be on the table for these schools and they can definitely be working on finding new member schools while at the same time preparing their own parachutes ...

[CNU85]

DII is not an option for CNU. It presents even more obstacles and issues than a 5 team CAC. Increased travel costs being one. There are not many DII schools around. And of course, scholarships. CNU would want to be competitive and thus would have to offer scholarships. I did the math a while back....can't remember exactly, but I think it was somewhere around $2.4 million per year needed each year to provide the scholarships allowed for the sports offered. We just don't have the endowment for that.

D-Mac -- I like your points of view....I'm confused though....who is overreacting?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Scheduling is a problem potentially, but the NESCAC schools (like Middlebury) have to schedule the same amount of games each year. It isn't fun, I grant you, but there are plenty of opponents in this region to play. More money might need to be spent on tournaments away (there is a great one in Vegas, I am told), but I think it is doable at least as a stop-gap.

If we are four years into this and nothing has changed, then I think something bigger needs to be done, but I think this conference can get through the next three to four years.

There are ideas they can move towards. The USA South split (in whatever form) is only an option for SVU at best. The ODAC is not an option. The NEAC may splinter (long story for another time) and some of those schools may have no choice but to join the CAC (ironic for PSU Harrisburg). And I think there are other options (no, the NJAC super merger won't be one of those options). Heck, even the MAC could have a couple of splinters (they always get too big and then shed members). And yeah, the ACAA is not an option for a lot of reasons.

Just have to think things through and NOT overreact.

IMHO, the NESCAC comparison is a little flimsy. As you obviously know, some of those schools schedule a second game against conference opponents as a non-conference game. In the case of a five-school CAC, that additional game would be a *third* game against the same school, not second - which is obviously still an option, but not quite as attractive as Bowdoin-Bates playing twice with one being non-conference. Second, some of these NESCAC schools can basically throw a rock and hit a couple non-conference opponents. (Though I think we're obviously seeing the tipping point in college saturation in part of New England ...)

Scheduling is absolutely going to be the critical concern for Salisbury, CNU, and Mary Wash - not just in basketball but in many sports. It's tough to fill all your Saturdays with non-conference games in the back half of most sports seasons so for them, a small league is better than no league at all. Oddly, all other things being equal*, the NCAA Tournament chances for those three schools would likely go up in most sports if they go into Pool B. For St. Mary's and Southern Virginia, the scheduling AND the AQ access will be critical concerns.  So, I can see Salisbury, CNU, and Mary Wash being the most patient - while filling out a non-conference schedule while being in a five-school league will be a chore in most sports, it's still less of a chore to do so as an independent. As for SVU and SMC, I can't see them not jumping at the first chance they'd get to be in a stabilized conference, provided the geography is not completely untenable to them. Existing outside the AQ structure across the board for either of those two athletic departments for any extended period of time would not be healthy, IMHO.

So, on the one hand, yes, the two-year window is good in some ways since it buys the CAC some time -- but on the other hand that gives SMC and SVU two years to find other options. I can't imagine they want to exist for anything more than a year floating in Pool B without having a definitive Pool A home locked up. I honestly think this is a race between one or both of those two schools finding another home versus the CAC lining up more members. That doesn't even account for the possibility of something like one of those "big three" pulling a Frostburg, but I don't see that as necessarily any better for them on the surface ... but, hey, how many people five years ago would have thought Frostburg was going to go DII?

In short, I'll agree with other posters who have intimated that all options have to be on the table for these schools and they can definitely be working on finding new member schools while at the same time preparing their own parachutes ...

sunny - you might notice that when I referenced the NESCAC I also referenced Middlebury. Feel free to check their schedule and do tell me where the extra game against a conference foe is located. My reference wasn't flimsy. Middlebury has like 16 out of conference games to schedule. We have talked about it with their coach on Hoopsville just this season. You are right that Amherst, Williams, Wesleyan, Bates, Bowdoin, and Colby schedule second games for TWO more games they don't have to schedule ... but the rest of the conference does NOT. But, 16 minus 2 is ... still a lot of non-conference games to schedule.

And I made the reference also knowing that for CNU, SAL, UMW, and SMC, you aren't that far from the USA South, ODAC, Landmark, MACC, NJAC, and MACF even. No, they aren't around the corner, but again to my Middlebury reference ... they aren't horrendously far away either. Again ... I used Middlebury as my reference for very good reason.

As for the worry about CNU, SAL, UMW versus SMC and SVU ... the situation with Pool B will be identical to the situation they are currently in (and will be for two more seasons). Realistically, SMC and SVU have to get in via the AQ or it is a bust. They just haven't been putting programs together that will warrant at-large opportunities in recent years. Sure, the AQ will be gone in two years time, but I think the idea of them getting it - with current situations remaining somewhat constant - was a long-stretch anyway. The at-large has been their best bet and they don't have the programs to do it even now. I just don't see that changing to make it a massive concern moving forward.

But I disagree that the chances of CNU, SAL, and UMW having their chances go up for NCAA berths. I think they stay the same. They may lose the AQ in two years, but they are now getting in via Pool B. The best team in the conference was most likely taking the AQ, now the Pool B replaces that. The next best teams were most likely Pool C candidates... that still remains moving forward after they possibly lose the AQ bids.

As for the future ... I have more more phone calls on this topic and triple-confirmed information more than I have wanted to .. because I have to keep putting out rumors and overreactions (you should see my phone in the last few weeks). None of the teams are seriously considering DII. Sure, they probably have researched it because they have to do their due diligence, but I have talked to someone (or more than one) in every office and DII just isn't on the "realistic radars." The costs alone would make it prohibitive. Furthermore, look at a DII map ... there ain't much in this neck of the woods. The travel and time needed to join a conference and play in one is even worse than their current situations. Sure, someone might get desperate, but I am being told that no one is stomaching the idea of going DII (not to mention, for Salisbury it could very well kill their lacrosse and other programs; for football, I'm not convinced it is a better plan, either).

Per the overreactions - I was told by someone who had "gleaned" that Salisbury was preparing to be a DIII independent. So, I did my own groundwork and found that rumor to be absolutely the furthest from the truth. The number of rumors swirling around, especially the coaching ranks, is staggering. People have to look at the big picture and realize this may be one of the rare DIII conferences that can absolutely exist without an AQ while dealing at worst with scheduling challenges - which can be handled.

So ... schools may have looked at other options, but everyone I have talked to that I trust and would know a lot better than the rumor mills ... these schools plan to stick together and find partners that do exist on paper ... they just need to find ways to pull the triggers and make it work. Heck, the CAC could also exist in a smaller way as a portal for many schools transitioning into the division or transitioning in general - much like the old ACFC.

There is no reason to have parachutes, I'll add. There are no conferences that will take these teams in (outside of SVU and maybe SMC). They can't become independent because that gets them into more trouble especially with schedules. The CAC will remain even if it is down to just four members.

[CNU85]

Perfectly said D-Mac!

[Swish3]

I'm obviously late getting to this, but I wanted to congratulate CNU on another great season! 

They just couldn't get over the hump against Swarthmore...for me, it was their big men inside that made the difference...they were good on offense and defense, particularly O'Dell, which really kept the Captains at bay.  In turn, Oshkosh was able to do that to Swarthmore...when you have a center in D3 w/the size and talent of Flynn, coupled w/that supporting cast, it's easy to see how they won it all.

Thanks to the seniors for all the great memories...I wish you much success in the future! (as if they read this)

GO CAPS! 

[Caz Bombers]

CAC commissioner on the record here. Sounds like they're being proactive and burning up the phone lines.

https://pilotonline.com/sports/college/elsewhere/basketball/article_704a48a4-612f-11e9-a42b-f33abc760fab.html

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Oh, they absolutely are being proactive. I know they have been since the new commish came in the door. I know they are having conversations at all opportunities. It is just a matter of figuring it out. They aren't like other conferences and sitting for two years waiting to figure it out.

[jmcozenlaw]

Oh, they absolutely are being proactive. I know they have been since the new commish came in the door. I know they are having conversations at all opportunities. It is just a matter of figuring it out. They aren't like other conferences and sitting for two years waiting to figure it out.

Dave, if you had to take stab (and given what was written in the article linked above), which outcome do you believe is more likely, even if ever so slightly?

(1) The CAC folds as Salisbury is courted successfully by another conference (or they continue sniffing around for other options...................as Stevenson did when they departed the CAC for the MAC)
(2) The CAC is successful, in the Commisioner's words. of getting the conference to 10-12 teams, with two divisions

If Salisbury were to follow Stevenson's lead and leave the CAC for the MAC or another conference, I don't know how the CAC gets close to 10 teams, let alone 12 teams. I don't know how the 12 happens even if Salisbury stays put. Are there that many teams anxious to move from their current conference to a reconstituted CAC, especially that make sense in that geography down South? You know MUCH better than me. Thanks!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I don't think it is either option. I think it is in between. I think they are successful and stick around - through some dark times - and regain their AQ with an 8-member conference. That's how I see it probably playing out right now.

I don't see as 10-12 member conference because I don't see where that membership comes from unless a significant conference imploded or split up - and while I've heard rumor/talk of that from time to time ... I don't see it happening in reality.

The reason Salisbury, CNU, UMW, SMC are in this situation is because schools didn't want to be in the conference with them anymore (from budgets to success to bogus reasons). Thus, where in the world is Salisbury (or any of the rest) going to go where they would be welcomed? It is the same in reverse. However, I think there is more likelihood of finding a few schools to join the conference than I think there is three of the four in that group find a new home.

I think you are also putting too much weight in Salisbury finding a new home. The only one of the four (assuming that S. Virginia finds a new home, of course) I could see successfully going elsewhere is St. Mary's ... but that isn't a sure thing, either.

[jmcozenlaw]

I don't think it is either option. I think it is in between. I think they are successful and stick around - through some dark times - and regain their AQ with an 8-member conference. That's how I see it probably playing out right now.

I don't see as 10-12 member conference because I don't see where that membership comes from unless a significant conference imploded or split up - and while I've heard rumor/talk of that from time to time ... I don't see it happening in reality.

The reason Salisbury, CNU, UMW, SMC are in this situation is because schools didn't want to be in the conference with them anymore (from budgets to success to bogus reasons). Thus, where in the world is Salisbury (or any of the rest) going to go where they would be welcomed? It is the same in reverse. However, I think there is more likelihood of finding a few schools to join the conference than I think there is three of the four in that group find a new home.

I think you are also putting too much weight in Salisbury finding a new home. The only one of the four (assuming that S. Virginia finds a new home, of course) I could see successfully going elsewhere is St. Mary's ... but that isn't a sure thing, either.

Thanks as always Dave for the great info!!!