MBB: Coast 2 Coast Athletic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

He had no idea who their first team pre-season All-American (Justin Wansley) was.  He gets his information listening to the webcast (with "homer" announcers) and concludes that "Wansley is a beast".

He never said he had no idea who Justin Wansley was. Perhaps you could eliminate jumping to conclusions. Thanks.

[Titan Q]

"A couple weeks back on Hoopsville, Dave McHugh asked me which teams I had ranked ahead of No. 12 Randolph-Macon, on my men's ballot. "Ha," I clucked, "try all of them!" As is frequently the case, hindsight set in about an hour later and I realized that was a stupid thing to say. I've quietly made my peace with RMC by putting them on my last ballot and singing their alma mater in a remorseful tone.

That being said, from what I heard of last night's webcast, Justin Wansley is a beast and this team is solid."


That's what was said on the Daily Dose.  I have no idea how you determine that, "He had no idea who their first team pre-season All-American (Justin Wansley) was."  He never said that.  And I have a hard time believing Gordon Mann, who's been on the D3hoops.com staff for a long time, didn't know who a preseason 1st Team All-American - as named by this site - was before listening to a webcast Monday.

Regarding Wansley, maybe it's not that he is making up his mind after listening to "homer announcers" (and RMC's crew is not, by the way...they're good), but rather referring to Wansley's 19 point, 11 rebound performance  in that game vs St. John Fisher? 

[Pat Coleman]

Oh, unless the crew has changed, I might be willing to agree on homer announcers. Not the worst homers in the ODAC but on the list, to be sure.

[mlb]

Glad to see that I could generate an emotional response.

Yes, I created a misleading statement - sensationalistic, unsupported journalism on my part and I apologize.  I should probably post a retraction on a different page in smaller print.

By the way, the announcers are pretty solid R-MC fans as I listened to them many times last year.

Wansley is a great kid, very quiet and unassuming and probably deserves more recognition than he gets.  The 19 point, 11 rebound performance is nice, but look at his averages from last year.  The kid averaged 18.5 and 10.1 so the performance against St. John Fisher is nothing but "average".

I also believe that there is a substantive difference between "knowing" and "being familiar with".  He may have seen the name, but I would bet he "knew" little about him.

However, I will retract my earlier statement.

[Coach C]

mlb -

The guy is covering the sport FROM PHILADELPHIA.  It's unlikely that he would have had a chance to see Wansley play more then once this year.

Give him a break. 

You were going for the cheap score.  It was pretty lousy of you.

C

[Matt Letourneau]

I'd probably be wiser to keep my mouth shut, especially since i really do like everybody here, but maybe this whole thing is being blown a little bit out of proportion a tad?

I mean I know everyone takes this stuff seriously, as they should since they invest so much time in it, but to read the replies you would have thought that mlb made fun of the guy's mother or something...I mean, it wasn't exactly a character assisination, just a question as to his qualifications. I have no idea one way or the other, I'm just saying he said something he thinks now he shouldn't have, but it seemed at least to be a revelant question, and he apologized, so...

Merry Christmas and happy holiday season to everyone and their families. Enjoy some good rest.

[mlb]

Coach C

I was not going for a "cheap score".  Your return comment is far more "personal" and, in this case inappropriate.  In the zealous effort to defend the current process, everyone missed the main point.  The process is flawed (and by the way, that's what I was "attacking", not the person). 

I don't disagree that most polls are flawed.  D-III followers are generally known for their creativity and uniqueness.  There is an effort to "do things differently" than the other divisions.  In this case, by following along with the others, the D-III process is even more flawed.  You're right - as a Philadelphia writer it's tough to see ODAC games.  How do you cast an accurate vote if you don't see the teams play?  You can say - "it's the same as every other poll".  Great, does that make it right?

I offered a suggestion - good or bad.  No comments on that though.  I meant nothing personal by the comment.  Can you say the same?

[Coach C]

mlb -

When you make a suggestion couched by your own admission in "a misleading statement - sensationalistic, unsupported journalism," it loses ALL merit.  You don't get to make suggestions that way.

That being said, Matt is right (for once, hee hee hee), Merry Christmas to all and lets have fun at the tournaments!

C

[mlb]

okay, so I can put this thing to bed once and for all -

there was no personal attack made or intended.  I am truly sorry if someone took it that way.  It's nice to see everyone jump in and defend the person.  I was not talking about the person...it's the process.

His statement was "from what I heard of last night's webcast, Justin Wansley is a beast and this team is solid"

I hate to argue over semantics, but this sentence indicates that he is basing his opinion on Wansley and the team on portions ("from what I heard - implying he didn't hear the entire broadcast) of a game.  The fact that he referenced an "average performance" (based upon last year's stats - 18.5 and 10.1) indicated to me that he did not "know" of Wansley.  He made no reference of prior knowledge (reference to prior thoughts or comparison to earlier or prior year games).

My bottom line statement had nothing to do with the person - it "attacked" the process.  I said that this provided some empirical evidence that the poll was a "beauty contest". 

If all of you were attacking me because you're personally involved in the polling process and consider to be different than I stated, that's fine.  I offered a suggested alternative -- comment on that.

Is it a real "issue"?  No, it should be more about the basketball.  However, every team wants to be recognized for its accomplishments.  Are polls a big deal?  Normally I would say no.  Obviously, some disagree with me - including some of our esteemed Congressmen who want to bring the BCS polling process before Congress.  If it's worthy of discussion on the Senate or House floor, why not here?

Nonetheless, a Merry Christmas to each of you and your families.

I'm done here.

[kitchenrat]

Back to the court for YCP tonight as the Spartans take on Mt. Union in the first round of the White Rose City Classic. I hope we will have some hoops to talk about soon.

[gordonmann]

MLB et al:

Wow.  I had no idea I was such a hot topic. We sorely need games to talk about if that's the case.  Just to set the record straight, for whatever it's worth:

- I'm not insulted by your post, though I am flattered that Pat, Coach C and TitanQ defended me.  My mother wasn't insulted by it either.  She doesn't understand this "Division III thing" any way.

- I had heard of Justin Wansley before that SJF broadcast.  I knew he was an All-American.  I knew he was good.  My primary motive was to apologize to the RMC fans for my bombasity while acknowledging their success in beating two decent teams with different styles on consecutive nights.

- Yes, it's much tougher to follow the hundreds of Division III teams from a distance than Division I where television makes a big difference.  I see a fair amount of teams throughout the season and then rely on other first-hand observers I trust and do the best I can with boxscores and my general knowledge of the regions.  I suspect voters in polls for Division II and NAIA have similar challenges.

That being said, you don't have to agree with my opinion.  I think the strength of the poll lies in the knowledge of the collective group who together see a lot of teams, games and players.

Your proposal for regional polls as opposed to a national one is interesting, though I'm not sure why they should be exclusive.  The NCAA does regional rankings later in the season and I think we (D3hoops) fill a void by doing a national poll.  It's not always right, but I think on a whole it's pretty good. 

A couple comments on your proposal...

This way you would have 4 polls based upon geography.  I know that the geographic regions aren't exact, but you could be close and their would be relative merit to the rankings.  The fact of the matter is, you can be in the top 15 in the nation (per the poll) and not get a bid if you don't win the automatic bid and there are only 3 or 4 slots in the region.

If someone did regional polls, why stop at four regions when the NCAA recognizes eight?  This might be more useful than North, South, East and West, which I presume you meant.  You're right that being in the Top 15 doesn't make you a lock for the tournament, though I think it's unlikely now that there are additional at-large bids. 

If we did regional polls, I suspect the same challenges would emerge.  For example, how often do people in Virginia see Mississippi College?  Do the people in Tacoma (Puget Sound) often get a first-hand look at St. Thomas, Minnesota? I think you'd find the same challenges emerge even at the regional level.  But the idea is an interesting one. 

[Warren Thompson]

Gordon:

Had you attended the LVC Tip-Off Tournament last month, you would have have seen and learned all you needed to know about Wansley. 

[ycp]

At the Half of the 20th White Rose City Classic in York....

York leads Mt. Union 42-22 at the intermission. Chad McGowan has 10 points to lead York while Brandon Bushey has added 8. With Bushey's fourth point of the evening, he now stands all alone in sixth on the Spartans' all-time scoring list, passing former guard Steve Schmehl.

[ycp]

York 83-Mt. Union 62

Details after the Ursinus/Whitman game

[cuabigdog]

for anyone interested at the half Vermont ( mike lonergan former cua coach) 38  American ( jeff jones) 16... i know these are D1 schools but thought i would throw it out there anyway ....Congrats to York College on their victory tonight