MBB: Great South Athletic Conference

batteredbard · July 30, 2009, 11:46:56 PM

OK you have access to an AQ tourney but if your thinking tourney lines consider this example.

The way we understand it at the moment, were this to have been in place last season

No. 1 Averett plays No. 5 methodist/Shenandoah
semifinal
No. 2 Huntingdon plays No. 3 Ferrum

final
No. 2 CNU plays No. 3 LaGrange
semifinal
No. 1 Maryville plays No. 4 NC Wesleyan

Last season both of those No. 1 seeds went to the tourney, and yes I acknowledge Pool B is shrinking and that's a going to be a harder place for MC to go then it has been in the past, but do we see the expanded USAC making the radar for taking a second team besides the AQ? Both teams changed quite a bit from that meeting last year but its the only score of reference, say MC wins this mythical title 107-68 and Averett doesn't get to dance.

If Im a current USAC coach Im looking at MC playing 24 game regular season with only six conf games while I'm playing 14 conf games and wondering if that's fair.

Or if you flip the outcome, then MC can't get the games it needs to even be considered for a bid.

I just dont see how you don't balance it out and relaign the divisions as teams come (Covenant) or go (Shenandoah, Greensboro)

You could even do them neutral court over the holidays to replace a christmas classic or whatever and have north play south at Averett or MC or at ETSU with six games a day for two days and make a money maker for the conference out of it and save some travel money to boot.

But then I'm a pot stirrer

wilburt · July 31, 2009, 10:09:31 AM

Quote from: batteredbard on July 30, 2009, 11:46:56 PM
If Im a current USAC coach Im looking at MC playing 24 game regular season with only six conf games while I'm playing 14 conf games and wondering if that's fair.

Or if you flip the outcome, then MC can't get the games it needs to even be considered for a bid.

What has fairness got to do with anything if all of the parties are in agreement?

Ralph Turner · July 31, 2009, 06:29:18 PM

Or bard, we have the 2006 Huntingdon squad that put it together at the end of the season, won the tourney and sat home!

The rules for Pool B were not geared towards a team that puts it together late in the season.

Let's not just restrict this to Basketball.

Can you imagine trying to earn a Pool B bid in baseball if the WIAC is in Pool B in 2012?

Piedmont earned its Pool B bid before the Landmark Conference, the Northern Athletics Conference, the Capital Athletic Conference, the New England Collegiate Conference and the Upper Midwest Athletic Conference all moved to Pool A!

I wrote elsewhere that Pool B Baseball in 2012 will be about 3 bids for Chapman, Ithaca, maybe 2-3 WIAC's, WashU and Emory plus whoever else is in Pool B that year.

The same goes for Soccer, too. Soccer may be down to 1 bid in 2011...the WIAC's , UC Santa Cruz, Chapman, UDallas.

I am in favor of the affiliation because of the benefits to the entire athletic department.

Ralph Turner · July 31, 2009, 06:44:02 PM

It's official...

http://www.covenant.edu/news/07.27.09

Covenant, Berry GA and PSU-Abington are the new provisionals.

Welcome to these three schools!

Berry's announcement.

http://www.berry.edu/pr/news/pressdetail.asp?ID=775

Nothing from PSU-Abington yet. I suspect they will join the NEAC.

mattgrubb · August 02, 2009, 06:43:56 PM

ralph
i take it Berry is going into the SCAC and Covenant will be looking to go with the GSAC?

Have you heard anything substantial about this or is it all speculation at this point?

Ralph Turner · August 02, 2009, 10:16:19 PM

Quote from: mattgrubb on August 02, 2009, 06:43:56 PM
ralph
i take it Berry is going into the SCAC and Covenant will be looking to go with the GSAC?
Have you heard anything substantial about this or is it all speculation at this point?

Matt, I am speculating at this point.

Berry has a long NAIA tradition, but they have a "SCAC-like" endowment. Y'all know the kids that go to Berry. Are they more Swanee/ Rhodes/ Centre/ Oglethrope or are they Maryville/ LaGrange/ Piedmont/ Huntingdon-like? In any case, you may have three years to use Berry as a schedule-filler. They are provisional during those years, and if Berry likes the closeness of the GSAC/USA South, then good. Please remember, that the women's side of the GSAC is a huge plus now for both Covenant and Berry. A ten-team women's conference can almost fill out the schedule nicely! Much less travel for the women in the GSAC compared to the SCAC.

I think that Covenant is solid for GSAC. I wish that you could pull Shorter, too.

I think that the "lead domino" will be what the SCAC wants to do. They have huge strategic issues to address.

Colorado College was a football school that filled a badly needed slot on the schedule. Rembmer how hard it has been in the SCAC to get that 10th game? Now what is the advantage Colorado College?

-- It is a long flight from everywhere. Their travel partner was 70 miles north of DFW airport; another flight!
-- They don't have all of the sports that the SCAC wants.
-- They abandoned a 127-year old football program. In fact, they scheduled Homecoming in 2008 during the football team's open date. To wit,

http://www.nme.com/awards/video/id/pQTBXQlo8K0/search/balaganjur

-- They just canned Softball.
-- They are D-1 in women's soccer.
-- No women's Golf or Field Hockey.
-- No baseball or Men's Golf.

You now have 9 football schools (AC, TU, Hendrix, Rhodes, Millsaps, BSC, Sewanee, Centre, DPU) and the chance that Centenary might add football to make 10? After all, the new Centenary College president was at LaGrange when they added football!

The SCAC has stated that they like the twelve team format. The next logical jump would be to 16. Centenary and UDallas would make nice additions for geographical reasons. Sixteen is just beyond reach, especially if DPU were courted to go to the NCAC.

How has Oglethrope weathered the financial downturn? Oglethorpe must like the company that it keeps. It looks great to show peer institutions as Sewanee, Rhodes and Centre, but an AQ conference (GSAC with Berry, Covenant, Huntindgon, LaGrange, Maryville, Oglethorpe, and Piedmont) without all of the travel is something that the finance people must consider.

I think that the GSAC is moving along nicely. Best wishes!

Ralph Turner · August 02, 2009, 10:25:45 PM

The NCAC board is talking about Earlham leaving the 10-team NCAC and moving to the HCAC. DPU and Wabash are BIG rivals (Alabama/Auburn, Texas/Texas A&M, Hope/Calvin), and it would help with the isolation problem.

That is another challenge to the SCAC strategcially.

old_lion · August 06, 2009, 05:59:49 PM

Heads up Mr Yipsi, Wilburt, Scottie ... and all my other misguided friends.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=6241.msg1082053#msg1082053

Under the category of be careful what you wish for ... the saga continues ...

batteredbard · August 06, 2009, 10:14:02 PM

Ralph,

I think you make the case for the better alternative, which is to make the run at rebuilding the GSAC starting with Covenant. You're going to get squeezed in post season for a few years but if you go USAC affiliate the GSAC is a women's only league and it suddenly becomes very confusing as to how you would even add Covenant or anyone else down the road for men's athletics. It would be helpful to see how much autonomy for the GSAC is in the proposal.

Another point a sharp eyed reader pointed out that I missed. How would you do the tourney as far as men's women's go? Would the GSAC women be playing say at Agnes Scott (since with no men they could now host) and the USAC-GSAC men play at CNU with the USAC women? Or flip reverse it to a GSAC hosting both and the USAC women alone. What's the cost/benefit travel and logistics wise for the schools?

I suppose we'll get the next glimpse sometime Friday as to how things are going.

Ralph Turner · August 07, 2009, 08:54:10 PM

Quote from: batteredbard on August 06, 2009, 10:14:02 PM
Ralph,

I think you make the case for the better alternative, which is to make the run at rebuilding the GSAC starting with Covenant. You're going to get squeezed in post season for a few years but if you go USAC affiliate the GSAC is a women's only league and it suddenly becomes very confusing as to how you would even add Covenant or anyone else down the road for men's athletics. It would be helpful to see how much autonomy for the GSAC is in the proposal.

Another point a sharp eyed reader pointed out that I missed. How would you do the tourney as far as men's women's go? Would the GSAC women be playing say at Agnes Scott (since with no men they could now host) and the USAC-GSAC men play at CNU with the USAC women? Or flip reverse it to a GSAC hosting both and the USAC women alone. What's the cost/benefit travel and logistics wise for the schools?

I suppose we'll get the next glimpse sometime Friday as to how things are going.

Thanks for the comment, Bard!

When I get the map to look at candidates to move to D-III from somewhere else, I rule out D-1's because there are so few BSC's and Centenary's. We have seen the Presbyterian's and Wofford's commit to D-1 style programs. Even North Georgia College and State University went from the NAIA to D-II.

That leaves the NAIA and the NCCAA as likely sources for GSAC Men's programs.

What are the possibilities that one of these schools would commit to the 4-5 year process to join D-III? (A school with an enrollment of 1000 will require 6 men's and 6 women's sports prior to beginning the exploratory process as the NCAA is moving now.)

NAIA

Alabama

Auburn University Montgomery, Montgomery, AL
Faulkner University, Montgomery, AL
University of Mobile, Mobile, AL
Spring Hill College, Mobile, AL
Talladega College, Talladega, AL

Georgia

Berry College, Mount Berry, GA -- Coming to D-III
Brenau University, Gainesville, GA
Brewton-Parker College, Mt. Vernon, GA
Covenant College, Lookout Mountain, GA -- Coming to D-III
Emmanuel College, Franklin Springs, GA
Life University, Marietta, GA
Reinhardt College, Waleska, GA
Savannah College of Art and Design, Savannah, GA -- Left D-III earlier this decade
Shorter College, Rome, GA
Southern Polytechnic State University, Marietta, GA
Thomas University, Thomasville, GA
Truett-McConnell College, Cleveland, GA

South Carolina

Allen University, Columbia, SC
Columbia College, Columbia, SC
Morris College, Sumter, SC
University of South Carolina - Beaufort, Bluffton, SC
Southern Wesleyan University, Central, SC
Voorhees College, Denmark, SC

Tennessee

Bethel College, McKenzie, TN
Bryan College, Dayton, TN
Cumberland University, Lebanon, TN
Fisk University, Nashville, TN -- Left D-III
Freed-Hardeman University, Henderson, TN
King College, Bristol, TN (Headed to D-II. Promoted from candidacy to Provisional year 1 on 9/1/09)
Lambuth University, Jackson, TN (Repeating year one of D-II Candidacy)
Lee University, Cleveland, TN
Martin Methodist College, Pulaski, TN
Milligan College, Milligan College, TN
Tennessee Wesleyan College, Athens, TN
Trevecca Nazarene University, Nashville, TN
Union University, Jackson, TN

NCCAA -- South Region Division I
(Several NCCAA schools have dual membership in the NAIA or NCAA.)

Baptist College of Florida
Carver Bible College
Chowan University (D-II)
Emmanuel College
North Greenville University
Palm Beach Atlantic University (D-II)
Pensacola Christian College
Southeastern University
Southern Wesleyan University
Truett-McConnell College

NCCAA -- South Region Division II

Atlanta Christian College
Clearwater Christian College
Florida Christian College
Piedmont Baptist College
Southeastern Bible College
Toccoa Falls College
Trinity College of Florida
Wesley College MS

Who on that list would anyone even consider inviting to join the GSAC?

Thanks to anyone who will contribute!

scottiedoug · August 08, 2009, 11:28:32 PM

None of the above, Ralph, but you knew that already!

Ralph Turner · August 11, 2009, 09:51:54 PM

GSAC-USA South merger called off.

In some ways, I think that the GSAC is a more stable conference at this time.

Greensboro is financially trooubled.

Shenandoah is supposedly leaving.

Which other shoe "has not dropped"?

These talks will continue to surface.

The USA South has its AQ's thru the 2011-12 season as the by-laws read at this time.

Ralph Turner · August 11, 2009, 09:53:14 PM

Quote from: scottiedoug on August 08, 2009, 11:28:32 PM
None of the above, Ralph, but you knew that already!

Thanks, Doug.

Offline, some well-respected posters on this board commented and had the same opinion.

Ralph Turner · August 12, 2009, 10:25:52 AM

Daily Times article by Christopher James on the merger vote.

How quickly can Covenant get the paperwork to the GSAC office?

Another women's program in northwest GA helps with travel expenses on that side of the house!

That would be nine women's members including Salem and Covenant.

scottiedoug · August 12, 2009, 12:13:40 PM

Hewre is the MC press release. Not much different from the more complete Daily Times article.

http://www.maryvillecollege.edu/athletics/news-detail.asp?sportNameID=18&id=3080

It will be interesting if the current economic situation forces some schools that are more affluent than the GSAC institutions to affiliate "down" from their accustomed "higher" status. My fear would be that such moves would be temporary and that the status itch will reemerge as dominant when the economy gets better.