MBB: Great South Athletic Conference

[Urban Myth]

Well I really thought Huntingdon deserved to get in...  I think they should have made it over Maryville, I believe they proved that the past 2 weeks, but I didn't think Villa Julie would make it over them too.  I would have taken the two GSAC teams first. 

One thing I don't understand is that, if Maryville was selected on region record and all that, didn't Fisk have a better region record, so why weren't they selected over Maryville?

[Ralph Turner]

I will try to outline my understanding of conference membership and a side-by-side of HC and VJC and the tourney bid tonight!  Thanks.

[Urban Myth]

Nevermind, not sure what I was thinking about the Fisk thing, disregard that comment.

[narch]

i was a bit surprised to see hc left out of the tourney, as well

i've calculated sosi for each of the three teams (m'ville, hc and vjc)...ralph, please check my calculations for accuracy

m'ville sosi = 9.27, 15-7 regional record (.682)
vjc sosi = 9.09, 17-4 regional record (.809)
hc sosi = 8.89, 12-6 regional record (.667)

if these are the only numbers you are looking at, it's easy to see why huntingdon got left out of the tournament...lowest sosi and lowest regional winning %

i thought head-to-head was a large factor, as well, and it seems like the 2 wins vs. m'ville would have counted for more, but apparently not

i know very little about most of the teams that vjc played, but when you see names like baptist bible and polytechnic, you don't necessarily think basketball powerhouses, although baptist bible went 22-5 (14-4) and was a regional opponent for vjc - vjc did have two really bad home losses, to chestnut hill and st. mary's (md), both teams who were under .333 in region games

bottom line, huntingdon has to get some of the non-region games off of their schedule until such time that the gsac is no longer a pool b conference...instead of playing in a tournament in michigan on dec. 16-17, they could have hosted methodist (who was in alabama playing spring hill and mobile) and another regional team in their own tournament, likely picking up a couple of wins which may have strengthened their sosi somewhat and improved their regional record...even just 14-6 (.700) would have looked better than 12-6 and may have tipped the scales in their favor over m'ville - they would then have a higher regional winning % and two head-to-head wins, althought the sosi would probably still be lower

[Urban Myth]

narch,

you speak a lot of truth... here is the reason HC went and played in Michigan though.  When Allen White was a freshman, Coach Duckworth told him he would try to play somewhere close to his hometown so his friends could see him play, because the majority of the other teammates are somewhat close to Alabama, or reside in AL.  I think going to Michigan was a good thing for Allen since it is his senior year.

But I would agree with getting some of the other non-D3 games off of their schedule and play other D3 teams, regional or not, it will help overall rather than playing the NCCAA schools.

[Urban Myth]

Narch,

If that is how the picks were made, I can easily see why Villa Julie was picked over HC, and they must have been the 3rd pick for the Pool B, while MC was the last choice. 

I do not understand, though, how MC was chosen over HC.  You would think that, as in D1, the later season games would make a difference, as well as the head-to-head.  HC won 4 games against region ranked opponents (MC and Fisk) in the last two weeks, as well as a 13 game win streak... You would think that would count for something, but I guess not. 

Obviously the Pool B picks were based on the first criteria, because if they had been based on secondary criteria, those factors (the above mentioned) would have been taken into consideration and HC would probably be dancing instead of MC.

[Urban Myth]

Although I still believe that Maryville and Fisk have better teams

I think you're wrong on this Killer... Fisk was definitely more athletic and probably more talented, but not a better "TEAM" than Huntingdon.  I don't think Maryville was a better "TEAM" either, and I think the level of talent would be pretty close.  I think HC proved that the past two weeks.

When I played AAU back in the day, I played with some of the best players throughout the state.  We were easily more talented and athletic than anybody we played.  But we lost our first two games, because we weren't a TEAM.

There's a big difference.

[Urban Myth]

Oh, and for anyone interested...

I hear Coach Duckworth will be talking on Hoopsville tonight.

[Spencer Beaty]

The scots need to pick up the pace to get anywhere in this ncaa tourney.  We do have a better reputation and huntingdon, im sorry but maybe next year.

[Big Dog]

Huntingdon did deserve to get in, just not the NCAA Tournament. They deserved to get in to a local restaurant and watch the selection committee shaft them just like it did Maryville in the Scots early Lambert years. Lambert has NCAA tournament wins, reputation as an outstanding coach, and the credibility in scheduling that tournament officials respect and expect from a quality program. Huntingdon needs to establish some credibility to line up with the Kenny Maynes and Jerry Rices, not to mention Shiela Evans twin Stacey Kiebler. Two things mean spring on the Maryville campus, the dogwoods blooming and Lambert and the Scots putting on their dancing shoes. Best to Huntingdon next year and its a shame their is not an NIT for them to compete in. Thats where they belonged.

[Urban Myth]

Huntingdon did deserve to get in, just not the NCAA Tournament. They deserved to get in to a local restaurant and watch the selection committee shaft them just like it did Maryville in the Scots early Lambert years. Lambert has NCAA tournament wins, reputation as an outstanding coach, and the credibility in scheduling that tournament officials respect and expect from a quality program. Huntingdon needs to establish some credibility to line up with the Kenny Maynes and Jerry Rices, not to mention Shiela Evans twin Stacey Kiebler. Two things mean spring on the Maryville campus, the dogwoods blooming and Lambert and the Scots putting on their dancing shoes. Best to Huntingdon next year and its a shame their is not an NIT for them to compete in. Thats where they belonged.

Whoa, hey now "Big Dog", slow your roll... First off, to be selected into the NCAA tournament is not based on reputation or a team's prestige, it's based on a team's performance; or atleast it should be.  But maybe that is the reason Maryville got in, solely on their name.  Second, Huntingdon belonging in the NIT... Obviously you weren't at the game... or maybe you played in it.  Either way, if the selections were based on performance, they would realize that Huntingdon should be in the dance this year.  Because like someone previously pointed out, Huntingdon did something that no one has done in the past four years... they held Maryville to 25% shooting, and a point total of 48.  And you may say it was luck, or a bad game for the Scots, but Huntingdon beat them 2 weeks before that too. 

Now in all this I'm not saying Maryville shouldn't be dancing, I'm just saying that Huntingdon should be dancing either with them or in their place.  Maryville does have a great team.  But I don't see where you get off saying Huntingdon belongs in a NIT tourney when they just beat the brakes off of Maryville, who you say belongs in the dance.  So by your reasoning, either Huntingdon should be dancing or neither of them should be there.

[Griffcoach22]

Huntingdon played 20 D3 games this year....18 were South Region.  Remember the 2 Michigan games will be counted as 'in-region' beginning next year because all D3 games during a holiday (ie..Christmas...RALPH can confirm) will be included as in-region to help schools like Huntingdon - the only D3 in Alabama.  Consider this...when is Huntingdon going to play all of these other south region teams some suggest......the season begins the week before Thanksgiving....then there is a couple week Christmas break.....remember the majority of other D3's are in conference play come Jan/Feb.  This years schedule shows they played 10 games before Christmas - 8 were D3 and 6 were south region.  Tough to get other D3's in after Christmas other than GSAC.   They typically squeeze a couple of SCAC's in early Jan before conference play.  Looking at the last several years schedule, Huntingdon does not play any games IN ALABAMA - except at home.  Could it be Huntingdon's location is not feasible for many teams to travel to? 

Looking at the 7 Pool B's in South regions schedules on D3hoops only 2 played more South Region games than Huntingdon.  Also...RALPH can verify....non-D3 games are only secondary criteria in the selection process, so the 'non's' had no effect on Huntingdon not getting in.  In other words, 18 south region and 20 overall D3 is on par, or better scheduling, with other non AQ teams.  As for 'strength of schedule' that is not always easy to determine a year or two in advance when scheduling occurs....for instance, I'm sure most would have never envision Fisk winning as few as they did this year.  All is my opionion, of course...........                 

[scottiedoug]

Y'all might find the quotes  in the local paper from Randy Lambert about the NCAA selection interesting.  This article was written before anyone knew what was going to happen.  
http://www.thedailytimes.com/sited/story/html/231273

[wilburt]

I feel for those folks in Huntingdon. But Griffcoach22 I think 3 out the 5 GSAC schools have major scheduling challenges.  ODAC schools apparently won't play Maryville; Sewanee and Rhodes would rather play the 4 other GSAC schools than FISK; and Huntingdon is the lone D3 in Alabama.  That's probably all the more reason why the GSAC needs to get an AQ as soon as feasibly possible.

I am still of the opinion that the GSAC tourney needs to be played on a neutral court.  Although the folks at Huntingdon were great tourney hosts, I think the tourney would have been better attended had it been in Atlanta. It is as about as centrally located to all of the GSAC schools as you can get, plus I believe more GSAC alums (like myself) can attend the games and support their respective schools.   

Why can't Spelman or Agnes Scott alternate as tourney hostesses?  Or why not let Oglethorpe host the GSAC tourney for 3-5 consecutive years as an incentive to join the GSAC!  Just food for thought for the GSAC Athletic Directors.   

[narch]

i bet if you're a m'ville fan or coach, you're kind of glad that the gsac is a pool b conference...i haven't done the research, but i wonder how m'ville's sosi and in-region record stack up against some of the pool c's that didn't get in?  i'd be willing to bet it's lower, but i'll have to do some research to confirm that

ralph, have you done any of this research to save me some time/energy?

griffcoach...you make some good points re: geography and scheduling difficulty...if huntingdon wants to get into the ncaa tourney in future years, they'll simply have suck it up and make some trips to south region teams - pool b hopefuls have to take a "we'll play anybody, anywhere" attitude if they want to make their resume look attractive to the committee - while you are correct that the non-d3's didn't hurt hc, it doesn't appear that a schedule of carber bible and atlanta christian helped them, either - i'll emphasize this again...had they played and won just 2 more south region games, the regional winning % would have been better than that of m'ville...i think it would have been much more difficult for the committee to exlude hc vs. m'ville with a better regional winning % and two head-to-head victories