MBB: Great South Athletic Conference

old_lion · January 16, 2007, 03:46:55 PM

Quote from: mattgrubb on January 16, 2007, 03:13:13 PM
"I know this, Cole Hairston is the best player in the league in my book," Lambert said. "I wondered coming in if we could guard him and obviously we couldn't." There is the quote from the always incredibly well written article by Marcus Fitzsimmons. If that is not an argument for POY i don't know what is. Therefore i withdraw all previous posts regarding POY and stand behind this one.

The Grubby One

Easy now ... IT WAS A GREAT GAME. But, it was only one game.

I bet Gene Bartow thought Bill Walton was the greatest player alive, after he went 21 for 22 from the field, against his Memphis State team in the 1973 NCAA Championship game.

http://www.memphis.edu/magazine/v21i2/feat2.html

But, he wasn't. He was a great player ... But, it was only one game.

Quote from: mattgrubb
i still think POY should take some(1) intangibles into play not just numbers and therefore i agree with the killer, (2) a POY should lead his team to victory. So let's keep playing this thing out b/c the games have been awesome so far.

And a side note, (3)I will take Hairston on my team any day.

(1) Certainly, it's not just the numbers.

(2) That would be nice, but's it's just not that simple ... too many other variables involved. Did Nash not deserve the MVP the last two years? And will he not deserve it this year if Phoenix fails to win it all?

(3) I would too! Cole is a very good player. But the more relevent question for purposes of this discussion is, "If you were "drafting your team" and you had first pick of any GSAC player, who would you pick?"

Spencer Beaty · January 16, 2007, 03:55:37 PM

Quote from: old_lion on January 16, 2007, 03:16:20 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on January 16, 2007, 02:09:15 PM
Randy Lambert likes Hairston for best player and Coach Duckworth said very nice things about Bradley Blair and Bobby Golden. See:

http://www.thedailytimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070114/SPORTS/701140321&SearchID=73269250375802

Coach Lambert:
"I know this, Cole Hairston is the best player in the league in my book," Lambert said. "I wondered coming in if we could guard him and obviously we couldn't."

And I'm sure that's how he sincerely felt right after Cole almost pulled off the unthinkable ... virtually single handedly defeating Murvul at Murvul. Wow! Great game, Cole!

Coach Duckworth:
"This is my 14th year on the collegiate level and I don't know if I've ever seen a better combination of low post play than with Golden and (Bradley) Blair in my college coaching career.

I agree completely. I think having the two-headed, 500 lb, Golden/Bradley monster in the middle, with 10 fouls to use, may be the single most sgnificant factor in Murvul's success over the last view years. At the very least, it's the one factor that the rest of the GSAC can't match.

While these statements may be true. I happen to think that right now there are 3 players that have not progressed at all.

Bo Mason (The walk around and sulk until he can shoot a 3 man)
Bradely Blair (if I do not get the ball I do not play defense) AKA Black Hole
and Jeremy Holiday who has not gotten any better and I do not know why. Did not even play in the game against Huntingdon.

Ralph Turner · January 16, 2007, 08:16:23 PM

Quote from: old_lion on January 16, 2007, 03:46:55 PM
... But the more relevent question for purposes of this discussion is, "If you were "drafting your team" and you had first pick of any GSAC player, who would you pick?"

No doubt about it! Scottie Doug!

mattgrubb · January 16, 2007, 08:33:15 PM

then that is simple, if i have the first pick in the mythical GSAC draft i am now comparing Bobby the Golden child and Cole"the threat"Hairston

But again, no one can stop Bobby other than himself

old_lion · January 16, 2007, 10:13:00 PM

Quote from: mattgrubb on January 16, 2007, 08:33:15 PM
then that is simple, if i have the first pick in the mythical GSAC draft i am now comparing Bobby the Golden child and Cole"the threat"Hairston

That is simple ... If you get the 1st and 3rd picks, and I get the 2nd and 4th ... we'll both be happy.

coachwgh · January 17, 2007, 08:26:39 AM

You guys are on to something. I think you should draft in alphabetical order by screen name until you pick 3 each. I think after that we start getting into unknowns. Old_Lion take it and run with it. You seem to be a very good organizational type.

mattgrubb · January 17, 2007, 10:07:05 AM

Old Lion are you hinting around that your 2nd and 4th picks would be Green and Baldwin?

GSAC Killer · January 17, 2007, 10:25:36 AM

I would take Jake Green and Cole Hairston... Nothing against Bobby or any of the Scots but I like true point guards and guards period..
I rather have a great backcourt than a great frontcourt!! But hey thats my opinion...

The GSAC All Conference selections are still up in the air but I have a hard time voting for Cole Hairston for player of the year when your team is 1-14!!

By the way you wait and see but the All Conference 1st Team will go as follows:
Bo Mason
Cole Hairston
Bobby Golden
Jake Baldwin
Robbie Lawrence or Demetrius Render....

2nd team
Jake Green
Bradley Blair
Render or Lawrence
Alex Bowers
Someone else from Piedmont

Player of the Year : THE GOLDEN CHILD or Jake Baldwin but it will be the Golden Child because the Scots will win the GSAC~~

old_lion · January 17, 2007, 10:58:42 AM

Quote from: mattgrubb on January 17, 2007, 10:07:05 AM
Old Lion are you hinting around that your 2nd and 4th picks would be Green and Baldwin?

I once had a very accomplished college coach tell me this, "Good wings are a dime a dozen, they are everywhere. The rarest commodity, and the most essential ingredients, to building a successful team, are a good PG and a good big man." I think the guy had it figured out ...

So if this hypothetical draft existed, that's certainly what I do ... use my first 2 picks to acquire the best big man and the best PG available.

Quote from: GSAC Killer on January 17, 2007, 10:25:36 AM
I would take Jake Green and Cole Hairston... Nothing against Bobby or any of the Scots but I like true point guards and guards period..
I rather have a great backcourt than a great frontcourt!! But hey thats my opinion...

The GSAC All Conference selections are still up in the air but I have a hard time voting for Cole Hairston for player of the year when your team is 1-14!!

By the way you wait and see but the All Conference 1st Team will go as follows:
Bo Mason
Cole Hairston
Bobby Golden
Jake Baldwin
Robbie Lawrence or Demetrius Render....

2nd team
Jake Green
Bradley Blair
Render or Lawrence
Alex Bowers
Someone else from Piedmont

Player of the Year : THE GOLDEN CHILD or Jake Baldwin but it will be the Golden Child because the Scots will win the GSAC~~

Killer, at first glance you seem to contradict yourself. But, I think I understand ... initially you are saying what you'd do, as opposed to later, when you are saying what you think will actually happen. Unfortunately, I'm afraid you'll probably be right.

GSAC Killer · January 17, 2007, 11:04:09 AM

I apologize for the mix up.. I think you understand what I am trying to say..
I don't think Bo is the Best PG in the Conference.. He is more of a combo guard...

If done by position this is how I would pick them:
PG- Jake Green
SG- Bo Mason
SF- Cole Hairston
PF- Jake Baldwin
C- Bobby Golden..

With all the respect I have for Coach Haynes I don't think Render nor Lawrence are better than the 5 I have put down...
Old Lion as you know most of the time they pick one from each team and two from the Regular Season Champs...

old_lion · January 17, 2007, 11:34:55 AM

Quote from: GSAC Killer on January 17, 2007, 11:04:09 AM
I apologize for the mix up.. I think you understand what I am trying to say..
I don't think Bo is the Best PG in the Conference.. He is more of a combo guard...

If done by position this is how I would pick them:
PG- Jake Green
SG- Bo Mason
SF- Cole Hairston
PF- Jake Baldwin
C- Bobby Golden..

With all the respect I have for Coach Haynes I don't think Render nor Lawrence are better than the 5 I have put down...
Old Lion as you know most of the time they pick one from each team and two from the Regular Season Champs...

Killer, no mix up ... I gotcha ...

You couldn't go wrong with that five. But, I think the wing positions are still up for grabs ... and I don't know if Haiston s/b considered a wing or a big man. He could play either.

A couple of guys that aren't being mentioned are Adams and Maddox. IMHO, they s/b strong candidates for 2nd team consideration.

old_lion · January 17, 2007, 11:39:14 AM

Quote from: GSAC Killer on January 17, 2007, 11:04:09 AM
Old Lion as you know most of the time they pick one from each team and two from the Regular Season Champs...

So are you saying that if Murvul had not been the regular season champ your Sr year, you wouldn't have been 1st team all-GSAC?

That would have been a travesty, but you may be right ...

old_lion · January 17, 2007, 11:55:16 AM

OK Killer, I know you've been waiting for this ... another one of my statistical analysis compilations ...

The comparative #s on the most likely candidates at this point. A few comments ...

I think you have to consider players by position.
Even though the casual fans understand and appreciate scoring above all else ... you don't put 5 running backs and 2 offensive lineman on the all-Pro team. If they did, could you imagine that Pro Bowl team? That would just be silly ... the same logic should prevail here.

I'm considering Mason with the wings.
Two reasons ...
(1) All you Murvul fans keep telling me that's what he is ... that he and the team are better off when he moves over to a wing. (I agree.) There is a heck of a lot more to actually being a PG than bringing the ball up the court. As the Grubby One says, "we should take some intangibles into play ... it's not just numbers."
(2) It's only fair to Bo. He has a better shot at being considered one of the two best wings in the GSAC, than he does being considered the GSAC's top PG. At least that's what Killer and I think. (Spencer Beaty might be in agreement, as well ... man, what is his problem with Bo? Was Bo unkind to Spence's sister or something?)

I think the GSAC "powers that be" should also select an all-defensive team ... and a Sixth Man of the Year award. The SMOTY ... that would be Blair's recognition. And he richly deserves it, considering all the time he has spent laboring in Golden's substantial shadow. I suspect that if Blair were playing for Piedmont this season, he'd be averaging at least 15 and 8, his FG% would be higher, and Green would be flirting with double figure assists. Hey, we'll never know, but it's fun to imagine ... If we just had that 2nd, quality big man ...

The #s ...
(I know a lot of people keep touting the conference stats only, over the full season stats... but in scientific, statistical terms, 6 games is just too small of a sample to produce meaningful, statistically valid results. Consider the concept in baseball terms ... a 4 game series might produce several .500 hitters, or Ted Williams might go 2 for 20 ... but as a realistic indication of the players true value, it's meaningless ... it's just too small of a population of data to draw any valid conclusions ... the same logic should prevail here.)
(And Matt makes a good point ... there certainly are valuable intangibles to be considered, that aren't reflected in the #s. That's probably even more true relative to PGs than to other positions.)

But, the #s are a good starting point ... and interesting to consider ...

PGs:
## Player GP-GS Min FG% 3PT% FT% R/G A/G STL BLK PTS/G
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 Green, Jake......... 15-15 34.5 .451 .333 .816 4.1 6.9 27 1 9.4
10 Landon Baize........ 16- 8 21.3 .364 .083 .657 1.4 3.6 24 2 3.0

Wings:
## Player GP-GS Min FG% 3PT% FT% R/G A/G STL BLK PTS/G
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
32 Robby Lawrence...... 16-15 29.3 .441 .400 .724 3.6 1.6 35 6 19.3
22 Antoine Maddox...... 16-15 33.2 .469 .397 .796 4.9 2.5 25 12 13.6
03 Mason, Bo........... 15-14 30.9 .366 .373 .921 2.7 4.5 24 0 14.6
21 Adams, Mike........ 15-15 29.7 .430 .322 .733 4.0 2.1 11 0 14.6
24 Bowers, Alex........ 14-13 23.5 .500 .348 .774 3.9 2.2 22 3 10.5
11 Whitlock, Tyler..... 15-15 30.9 .396 .321 .706 5.3 2.5 25 2 10.1
40 Bradley, Quinn...... 15-14 29.3 .444 .396 .500 3.9 3.0 18 4 6.0

Bigs:
## Player GP-GS Min FG% 3PT% FT% R/G A/G STL BLK PTS/G
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 Baldwin, Jake....... 15-15 31.7 .601 .222 .670 9.3 0.9 19 9 24.3
44 Golden, Bobby....... 15-14 24.7 .494 .231 .811 7.8 1.8 12 15 15.5
24 Hairston, Cole...... 15-15 33.3 .503 .355 .644 6.7 2.1 24 14 16.1
55 Demetris Render..... 16-15 27.0 .529 .250 .712 6.0 0.6 18 1 17.6
25 Blair, Bradley...... 15-0 14.7 .458 .000 .636 4.1 0.4 7 8 11.2

GSAC Killer · January 17, 2007, 12:36:42 PM

Old Lion you are absolutely the king of stats!!
On your comment about my senior year regardless of anything Iwas a 1st Team All Conference Player and with all the respect in the world for my boy Sidney Ellis but I should have been the Player of the Year in the Conference my Senior year...
I just believe Player of the Years should come from the top team in the conference!!

mattgrubb · January 17, 2007, 01:15:47 PM

i think old lion is the king of stats as well, but sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story, when it comes to points, let's be honest no one ever sacrfices steal or rebounds for the good of the team, but sometimes players sacrfice points and even minutes.

Take it from a GSAC player of the year who played with a great big man (ennen), The best PG that graduated from MC in 2006 Teaun Winton, and then throw in a wing that wins POY, that is a combination right there.