MBB: Great South Athletic Conference

GSAC Killer · February 05, 2007, 09:55:18 AM

Coach Haynes I hear ya!!
Old Lion you are absolutely the King of Stats.. Although the stats are great the only numbers I care about are the numbers to the left and right of the Win-Loss column..

My question to you Old Lion is if Piedmont has a great player in Baldwin and a great Point Guard in your son, WHY DON'T THEY WIN??? I just want your personal opinion on that matter? Is it coaching? Players? What? I know you have great understanding of the game so I want to know your opinion on the matter..

Scots have a two tough stretch coming up but like all Randy Lambert teams do, THEY WILL FINISH WELL!

1st Team All GSAC:
Bo Mason
Alex Bowers
Jake Baldwin
Bobby Golden
Render,Lawrence, Maddox (Take your pick) But all three need to be on either 1st or second team..

2nd Team All GSAC:
Jake Green
Cole Hairston
Bradley Blair ( If he played on another team or played without Bobby would be the Best big man in the GSAC) I think what Bradley really cares about is winning so he sacrifices personal achievement for Winning Success!!

Player of The Year: Bobby Golden

mattgrubb · February 05, 2007, 10:30:25 AM

I now nominate my all GSAC board team of the year and their award

First Team
Ohyeah-aka Mr. Sarcasm- for putting Jake green in his top 8
Old Lion-aka the StatMan- for his breakdown of every number in the GSAC
Spencer Beaty-aka-the Godfather-of the GSAC
ScottieDoug-aka Bo's biggest fan-for supporting Bo throughout the entire season
MattGrubb-aka The Grubby one- I was nominated by my long lost brother Warren Haynes

POY
Playerhater of the year
The Killa for being better than everyone else, especially Sidney

This is my team and yes i am on my own team

GSAC Killer · February 05, 2007, 10:51:58 AM

Watts that was awesome!!!

You had me cracking up in my office!!!

By the way I want to Nominate d3ball for Comeback Post of the Year and Always hated as NewComer of the Year

ohyeah · February 05, 2007, 11:36:47 AM

Quote from: GSAC Killer on February 05, 2007, 10:51:58 AM
Watts that was awesome!!! You had me cracking up in my office!!!

By the way I want to Nominate d3ball for Comeback Post of the Year and Always hated as NewComer of the Year

For the "Newcomer of the Year"....I wish someone would translate his posts for me. I don't know what "playing the bills" is? And that is just where I would start.

old_lion · February 05, 2007, 11:44:01 AM

Grubb,

I am humbled by your inclusion of Old Lion in such an august group ...

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/august

GSAC Killer · February 05, 2007, 01:48:40 PM

Oh Yea I am going to take a shot at it and say its: When you receive bills in the mail and you pay them one month and you don't pay them the next.

old_lion · February 05, 2007, 02:10:45 PM

Killer, re the two issues you addressed ...

(1) Why doesn't Piedmont win more?

Fair question. IMHO, it's fairly simple.

It's not the Coaches ... I think Glenn and Hooker have done a great job working with a team that doesn't have all the standard pieces you'd typically like to see on a basketball team. We've been extremely competitive, in every game ... we are 3 for 3 in OT.

It's not the players we have ... we have an outstanding group of young men ... several of whom are outstanding basketball players.

It's the player(s) we don't have.

We are just too small, therefore, we have almost no margin of error. Since we are starting a least "one cylinder short" we have to be "hitting on all cylinders" to win. IMHO, we are just one accomplished, inside force type player (or maybe one athletic, quick leaper type, like Maddox) away from being very good.

I love the character of our team. We have to fight and scrap every minute, just to keep our heads above water ... and we do. But, we are "riding too low in the water", so to speak. Sometimes, the smallest of waves (that a team with more options could withstand) will sink us.

If you are skilled and know what you are doing, you can go with a "4 guard set" at times, and be successful. We've done it a good bit this season. (Tyler Whitlock is the "biggest" 6'1 guy in the league ... what a warrior!) But, it sure would be nice if when we left the "4 guard set" we could go bigger ... We've spent more time than I like to think about in a "5 guard set" this season. That's tough.

Hey, I'm not complaining ... just doing my best to answer your question.

As Rummy said, "You don't get to go to war with the army you'd like, you have to go to war with the army you have."

old_lion · February 05, 2007, 05:18:52 PM

Killer, re the two issues you addressed ...

(2) All-GSAC

IMHO, there are about 12 or 13 guys who deserve serious consideration. Your picks are all in that group.

But, we all have our biases, and I think you may have a couple of Murvul guys rated a little too highly. I guess you don't find the PPS stat quite as illuminating as Grubb and I do. I hadn't heard it before, but I like Grubb's term, "volume shooter". My comment re volume shooters (specifically big guys and guys who throw up a lot of 3s) was ...

Quote"There are two types of players that you'd expect to have a high PPS ... (1) big guys, since they should have a higher FG% and they tend to get fouled a lot, and (2) guys that shoot a lot of 3s, for obvious reasons.

Anyone clearly in either of these categories, that has a relatively low PPS ... well, scoring efficiency-wise, he's not having a very good year. He better be contributing heavily in the other areas."

Mason and Blair are certainly fine players and I'd take either of them on my team in a heart beat ... but, I think a primary reason that they are as high profile as they are is that they are "volume shooters". I haven't run these #s, but I bet if you looked at "shots per minute", they'd both be among the leaders. They have that mentality ... "I have my warm ups off, I must be open."

The other reason they are as high profile as they are is that they did make the decision to be part of a consistently winning program ... which does give you bragging rights. I just don't happen to believe that it automatically makes you a better player than your "near peer" whose program isn't as successful. (There is the school of thought that says it may be more difficult (more impressive) to be outstanding when your team isn't.) Hey, just one opinion ...

Whenever you pick an all-star team, there will always be a few guys "on the bubble" ... but I think your most glaring omission was Mike Adams. He is definitely in my top 10.

Oh, and POY ... IMHO, clearly, it has to be Baldwin. Although, I'll acknowledge, cases can be made for Hairston and Golden, as well.

d3ball · February 05, 2007, 06:53:21 PM

im going with Cole Hairston being POY of course and Heath Miller as Freshman of the Year

Spencer Beaty · February 05, 2007, 10:01:16 PM

The first time i saw Hairston play i really liked his game. We scored a bucket-load of points and you didn't even realize he had. That is the kind of player I want on my team. I agree with d3ball for once. Hairston POY so far for me, and if I am the Vito Corleone than Grubb is the Michael Corleone of the GSAC board.

mattgrubb · February 06, 2007, 09:49:42 AM

i like Hairston's game, but if a team goes undefeated in conference then it is tough to be more valuable than their best player, not saying it is right or that is the best criteria for POY, but it is hard to work around that

GSAC Killer · February 06, 2007, 12:04:55 PM

I agree with the Mr.Grubby. It is hard to give the Player of the Year to someone who does not come from the top team in the Conference. I have been looking up some stats and I have totally overlooked Bo Mason's stats!!

At one point this season he was shooting 30% from the FG and he has improved that stat somewhat.. He is averaging 14ppg, 5apg, and 3rpg. He is without a doubt the most important piece for the Scots and there success.. So with that said I think with these last couple of Conference games left I will say it goes to either Bo or Bobby!!! Can't go wrong with either one..

I will be in attendence Saturday when the two best teams in the GSAC square off!! Big game for the Scots and its NCAA Tournament hopes.. Only South Region loses have come to Emory and Transylvania!!

allsky7 · February 06, 2007, 02:00:50 PM

Quote from: GSAC Killer on February 06, 2007, 12:04:55 PM
I agree with the Mr.Grubby. It is hard to give the Player of the Year to someone who does not come from the top team in the Conference. I have been looking up some stats and I have totally overlooked Bo Mason's stats!!

At one point this season he was shooting 30% from the FG and he has improved that stat somewhat.. He is averaging 14ppg, 5apg, and 3rpg. He is without a doubt the most important piece for the Scots and there success.. So with that said I think with these last couple of Conference games left I will say it goes to either Bo or Bobby!!! Can't go wrong with either one..

I will be in attendence Saturday when the two best teams in the GSAC square off!! Big game for the Scots and its NCAA Tournament hopes.. Only South Region loses have come to Emory and Transylvania!!

IMHO, I think it is Ok to give the POY award to someone that is not on the top team in the conference. BUT...I think their stats have to rise about the crowd. If it is borderline, then give it to the guy on the top team. To the victor go the spoils. 8)
I guess too it depends on what the criteria are for making the selection. The MVP is not always the best player statistically.

lionfan · February 06, 2007, 02:09:42 PM

Ok as a first time poster I am going to try and weigh in with the same clout and clarity that each of you have been so accustomed to from each other. As far as the POY question goes I have a stance on the issue. First before I post my stance do not let the (lionsfan) name fool you or sway you into thinking I am biased on this issue.

Lets look at the Candidates:

Cole Hariston Huntingdon College averaging 17.3 points per game and 6.8 RPG but lets look a little closer into his season. In conference he is averaging 23.5 points per game. Overall on the season his 17.3 points per game account for 31% of his teams scoring which makes him pretty valuable to his team night in and night out.

Jake Baldwin Piedmont College averaging 24 points per game on the year along with 9.4 rebounds. In conference Jake is averaging 19.5 points per game. On the year he accounts for 29% of his teams scoring per night.

Bo Mason Maryville College averaging 14 points per game along with 5 assits a night. In conference he is averaging 17 points per game. On the year he is accounting for 18% of his teams scoring.

Bobby Golden Maryville College He is averaging 14.5 PPG and 7.5 RPG. In coference he is averaging 14.25 PPG. On the year he accounts for 19% of his teams scoring per night.

Lagrange's Render and Lawerence could go into this talk but their in conference numbers are not great and that was my main focus with this argument.

Now if you are a believer that the POY/MVP should come from the best team (WHICH I AM NOT) then you would have to either pick Mason or Golden. The mere fact that two players from the same team are even mentioned in this conversation is a testament that neither one of them are the MOST VALUABLE. As a result I think that you can eliminate each of them and now focus in on Baldwin and Hariston. The main reason is because every team that plays either of them knows that both Baldwin and Hariston are the backbone and heart to their teams. Stop them in a game and you win the game. The Lagrange Coach got so mad on Saturday that he was on his hands and knees begging for someone to stop Baldwin and went as far as to fling his jacket into the stands. Now if you look at the resumes of these two players they are about equal so to break the tie I have decided to look at what happened with their two teams met. Piedmont won the head to head matchup and in the process Baldwin had 16 while Hariston had 22. I think right now the person I would have to lean towards is Cole Hariston because we are talking player of the year in the CONFERENCE and I think to this point his conference performances have been the best. Many of you may or may not agree but this is what I think on the issue.

Still to come an answer to the question posed earlier why is Piedmont losing?

old_lion · February 06, 2007, 03:02:25 PM

Quote from: allsky7 on February 06, 2007, 02:00:50 PM
IMHO, I think it is Ok to give the POY award to someone that is not on the top team in the conference. BUT...I think their stats (and intangibles?) have to rise about the crowd. If it is borderline, then give it to the guy on the top team. To the victor go the spoils.
I guess too it depends on what the criteria are for making the selection. The MVP is not always the best player statistically.

Well said, allsky. I agree on both counts, especially if you throw the word, intangibles, in there.