MBB: Great South Athletic Conference

scottiedoug · February 07, 2007, 10:45:29 AM

I support Spencer's post about the POY discussion. It really is not an especially useful "award." This is a team sport. Maybe picking a most valuable player for each team, so it has to do with who contributes most to making that team (system) run, would mean something but comparing across teams is way less useful, at least to me.

This discussion could only happen in a culture where being Number One is held up as some fundamental goal shared by all. It is one reason we are busy ruining the earth instead of preserving it.

I agree that of all recent MC players, I would want Chris Housewright to have the ball if I really needed to score, and for that matter, if I needed a rebound or to guard somebody, I'd want him. No offense to other fine players!!

GSAC Killer · February 07, 2007, 10:55:10 AM

Although POY recognition is great I think Baldwin,Green, and Hairston would give it up to play in at least one NCAA Tournament Game.. No one remembers personal achievements as much as Team accomplishments.

You want to WIN go to Maryville, you want to transfer and WIN go to Maryville!! its that simple...

Bo Mason is the most valuable player to Maryville.. Jake Green is the Most Valuable Player for Piedmont but neither one will win the POY award.. Obviously I push a little more for PG's but without a true PG you don't have a chance.. The reason Watts, Housewright,Ennen,Ellis were as recognized as they were was because they had Good PG's same goes for Bobby...

Big game tonight Fisk vs Maryville!!!

old_lion · February 07, 2007, 11:14:54 AM

Quote from: scottiedoug on February 07, 2007, 10:45:29 AM
I support Spencer's post about the POY discussion. It really is not an especially useful "award." This is a team sport. Maybe picking a most valuable player for each team, so it has to do with who contributes most to making that team (system) run, would mean something but comparing across teams is way less useful, at least to me.

This discussion could only happen in a culture where being Number One is held up as some fundamental goal shared by all. It is one reason we are busy ruining the earth instead of preserving it.

I agree that of all recent MC players, I would want Chris Housewright to have the ball if I really needed to score, and for that matter, if I needed a rebound or to guard somebody, I'd want him. No offense to other fine players!!

Agreed ... well said.

If we want a challenge, maybe we should take a shot at the all-frosh team.

I've often heard, "timing is the key to life." Kyle Kemmerer did not make the all-frosh team in '04-'05 ... wrongly, IMHO.
He fell victim to the mindset, "You can't have 3 from one team." BS! He was clearly one of the top 5 freshmen in the GSAC that year.

This year his '04-'05 performance would have qualified for FOY.
## GP-GS Min FG% 3PT% FT% R/G A/G STL BLK PTS/G
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40 Kemmerer, Kyle...... 26-23 25.8 .473 .349 .778 5.2 1.7 20 9 9.9

Kyle, we miss you, come back for your senior year. You have the rest of your life to do whatever ... You have one final shot to play college ball with your boys. Think about it ... Have your people call my people ...

old_lion · February 07, 2007, 11:30:34 AM

Quote from: GSAC Killer on February 07, 2007, 10:55:10 AM
Although POY recognition is great I think Baldwin,Green, and Hairston would give it up to play in at least one NCAA Tournament Game.. No one remembers personal achievements as much as Team accomplishments.

You want to WIN go to Maryville, you want to transfer and WIN go to Maryville!! its that simple...

Bo Mason is the most valuable player to Maryville.. Jake Green is the Most Valuable Player for Piedmont but neither one will win the POY award.. Obviously I push a little more for PG's but without a true PG you don't have a chance.. The reason Watts, Housewright,Ennen,Ellis were as recognized as they were was because they had Good PG's same goes for Bobby...

Big game tonight Fisk vs Maryville!!!

You make some valid points, my friend. I know our guys would prefer Murvul's record over individual awards.

Picking a "MVP" is always subject to view point and interpretation. But one thing is for sure, the "true PG" is always the teammate that everyone else wants in the game, when they are in the game.

We old PGs see the world a little more clearly than most ... probably from all those years of "seeing the floor".

d3ball · February 07, 2007, 03:34:57 PM

If I were a Piedmont Lion, I would be very worried about the Huntingdon Hawks tonight. The Hawks got some momentum going into tonight's game. I hopefully will predict again that my Hawks will win tonight!!!!

GO HAWKS!!!!!!

mattgrubb · February 07, 2007, 05:37:12 PM

29 pt against Maryville, is that GSAC momentum

Remeber killa i played with the best PG of your graduating class.

Scottiedoug, if i had one guy to take the last shot i would go with Matt ennen, remember Hampden Sydney?

d3ball · February 07, 2007, 05:43:00 PM

we just beat fisk saturday.

GO HAWKS!!!

scottiedoug · February 08, 2007, 12:11:57 AM

Matt: I take your point about Ennen but I'd still take Chris.

So, d3ball, Piedmont clocked the Hawks tonight and the Scots got by Fisk, with Bo benched at the start for some practice infraction.

Big weekend!

mattgrubb · February 08, 2007, 09:02:17 AM

Bobby Golden, 29 at Fisk
That is a big statement
Games like that will make Bobby an All south performer

lionfan · February 08, 2007, 10:13:54 AM

I think that last night was a very prime example of why Piedmont struggles sometimes. While they are undersized and def could stand to use another big man for rebounding/defensive purposes that is not the reason why they have been so jekyl and hyde over the past few years.

Old lion said you have to play the cards your dealt or play with the team you have or something to that effect and he is absolutley right. You must play to your team's strengths. Last night Piedmont pressed from begining to end putting alot of pressure on the ball making it nearly impossible for Huntingdon to get anything going in a half court set. When you are undersized you "MUST" do this or that lack of size will kill you. If you have alot of small guys that are athletic you have got to pressure the ball and force some turnovers. Let's think back to the Maryville game. Piedmont was down 19 until they started to full court press. WHAT HAPPENED? They got right back in the game and if not for the most impressive single game performance of the year by Bo Mason in that game Piedmont beats Maryville.

Now I believe that Coach Glenn has done his best job this year and has gotten better year after year BUT I think the art to leading a team is knowing exactlly what your team's strengths and weaknesses are and to play accordingly. For year's Piedmont has only pressed either when they were way behind or when they were playing a team that they figured was "inferrior" to them. I honestly think with their athleticism that style will work most nights. Even the best team in the conference "MARYVILLE" struggled with it earlier in the year. The thing is you have to play to your strengths and since Piedmont will not outsize you they must out pressure you and out run you. Now they have done a much better job this year of getting the ball and running giving theirself easy transistion three pointers and layups but they have got to force the action and the tempo. Control the tempo and most times you win the game.

This is just my opinon but I have watched Piedmont Basketball I would venture to say more than most people on this board in the last decade and I have seen it time and time again.

Also on the POY question. Cole did nothing last night to help his cause 11 points and most of those were in garbage time when the game was out of hand. Baldwin did not play very well either which really makes the battle a toss up now. I guess I have to give the edge to Baldwin because I do believe he is the most feared player in the conference. Sunday will go a long way in deciding something. Wish I could be there.

GSAC Killer · February 08, 2007, 10:57:53 AM

Grubby one your a character!!

Thats like asking Sidney who the best PG ever is? You know he is going to say me because I fed him the ball, so you pull for your PG!!

He kept you happy... By the way its all about the Scots BABY!!! Win on the road against Fisk is always big...

Why did Bo not start? WHo cares because we still got it done and in the end thats all that matters...

ohyeah · February 08, 2007, 11:20:27 AM

Best player in the conference....Bobby Golden. He should and deserves POY. If you look at the first head to head matchup of Maryville and Piedmont and the so called Jakes against Bobby and Bo.

Bobby Golden 9-14, 20 pts, 9 reb, 2 ast, 2 TO, 1 blk in 27 mins
Jake Baldwin 8-20, 19 pts, 7 reb, 2 ast, 2 TO, 1 steal in 35 mins

Bo Mason 12-17, 33 pts, 5 reb, 5 ast, 2 TO, 1 steal in 33 mins
Jake Green 4-7, 11 pts, 4 ast, 1 TO in 26 mins

And the most important stat....Maryville wins.

I just dont know how you can argue against head to head stats. Oh well, Im sure Oldlion will say that his son had more assists b/c the stat guy was imcompetant, but who knows.

Im just ready for the next matchup. Lets see if Piedmont can go 1 for 8 years.

old_lion · February 08, 2007, 12:17:13 PM

Quote from: ohyeah on February 08, 2007, 11:20:27 AM
Best player in the conference....Bobby Golden. He should and deserves POY. If you look at the first head to head matchup of Maryville and Piedmont and the so called Jakes against Bobby and Bo.

Bobby Golden 9-14, 20 pts, 9 reb, 2 ast, 2 TO, 1 blk in 27 mins
Jake Baldwin 8-20, 19 pts, 7 reb, 2 ast, 2 TO, 1 steal in 35 mins

Bo Mason 12-17, 5 reb, 5 ast, 2 TO, 1 steal in 33 mins
Jake Green 4-7, 11 pts, 4 ast, 1 TO in 26 mins

And the most important stat....Maryville wins.

I just dont know how you can argue against head to head stats. Oh well, Im sure Oldlion will say that his son had more assists b/c the stat guy was imcompetant, but who knows.

Im just ready for the next matchup. Lets see if Piedmont can go 1 for 8 years.

Easy, ohyeah ... why so testy this morning? I've read your stuff in the past and usually found you to be reasonable and fairly insightful ... obviously, something has gotten your panties in a wad this morning. Let me see if I can help ...

First, stand up ... reach down with your thumb and forefinger and slowly pull the offending object away from your body. That should improve your mood.

Now on to your question ... a few points come to mind immediately ...

(1) It ain't that simple. As has been discussed ad nauseam on here, "just stats" never tell the whole story.

(2) This is not tennis. As scottiedoug pointed out, this is a team game. There really is no such thing as a head to head matchup (between individuals) in basketball.

(3) The basics of statistics ... draw conclusions from too small of a sample size at your own peril. "One game" is about as small as you can get.

Now you know.

old_lion · February 08, 2007, 12:41:58 PM

Quote from: lionfan on February 08, 2007, 10:13:54 AM
I think that last night was a very prime example of why Piedmont struggles sometimes. While they are undersized and def could stand to use another big man for rebounding/defensive purposes that is not the reason why they have been so jekyl and hyde over the past few years.

Old lion said you have to play the cards your dealt or play with the team you have or something to that effect and he is absolutley right. You must play to your team's strengths. Last night Piedmont pressed from begining to end putting alot of pressure on the ball making it nearly impossible for Huntingdon to get anything going in a half court set. When you are undersized you "MUST" do this or that lack of size will kill you. If you have alot of small guys that are athletic you have got to pressure the ball and force some turnovers. Let's think back to the Maryville game. Piedmont was down 19 until they started to full court press. WHAT HAPPENED? They got right back in the game and if not for the most impressive single game performance of the year by Bo Mason in that game Piedmont beats Maryville.

Now I believe that Coach Glenn has done his best job this year and has gotten better year after year BUT I think the art to leading a team is knowing exactlly what your team's strengths and weaknesses are and to play accordingly. For year's Piedmont has only pressed either when they were way behind or when they were playing a team that they figured was "inferrior" to them. I honestly think with their athleticism that style will work most nights. Even the best team in the conference "MARYVILLE" struggled with it earlier in the year. The thing is you have to play to your strengths and since Piedmont will not outsize you they must out pressure you and out run you. Now they have done a much better job this year of getting the ball and running giving theirself easy transistion three pointers and layups but they have got to force the action and the tempo. Control the tempo and most times you win the game.

This is just my opinon but I have watched Piedmont Basketball I would venture to say more than most people on this board in the last decade and I have seen it time and time again.

Also on the POY question. Cole did nothing last night to help his cause 11 points and most of those were in garbage time when the game was out of hand. Baldwin did not play very well either which really makes the battle a toss up now. I guess I have to give the edge to Baldwin because I do believe he is the most feared player in the conference. Sunday will go a long way in deciding something. Wish I could be there.

Lionfan, nice post. You make some valid points ... and you may be exactly right.

But, a truism comes to mind ..."There is a downside to every plan."

The problem with constant pressing is that a press really shouldn't work consistently against a good, well-coached team that doesn't panic. All you have to do against pressure is keep your head up, maintain good spacing, make good decisions, use ball fakes, and move the ball quickly.

There is always the danger that a good team will beat your pressure for one easy shot after another.

But I do agree with your basic premise. We are way too small too just sit back and not be aggressive. But I think we have to mix it up, be aggressive different ways, and try to keep our opponent off balance. I also agree that Coach Glenn is doing his best coaching job this season.

GSAC Killer · February 08, 2007, 12:51:37 PM

Oh Yea gets a little jumpy from time to time, I guess that explains his 41 inch vertical leap!!!

Look hands down Player of the year goes to either Bobby or Bo!!! Thats it.... No Baldwin, Hairston, or anybody else!!!

By the way I am very critical on coaching, and I don't believe Glenn has done a good job at Piedmont.. But hey thats my opinion...