MBB: Great South Athletic Conference

[mattgrubb]

that is the question, I agree
and my response is these decisions are made by man so they will never be perfect
I personally like the growth of D3 and not a split

Next point, BSC should just thank their lucky stars they did not join the GSAC b/c Randy would have enjoyed spanking them in their nice big arena, which will probably happen anyway if they want to schedule a game when the fighting scots are on their way down to huntingdon.  The scots could stop by and slap them and officially welcome them to D3.

[wilburt]

I personally like the proposed split in Division III.

I even like the idea of making all of the current NAIA schools - Division V or VI schools  . 

[scottiedoug]

It's the details that will count, as usual.  If being less serious about athletics means that coaches cannot do what Grubby says is a responsible coach's obligation to help student-athletes, the not-so-serious schools might want to focus on intramurals.   

That is quite different from giving scholarships (or other aid) to athletes who would not get aid if they were not athletes.  Isn't a big part of this issue about athletic preferences by the schools?  Drama and music profs lobby financial aid offices for aid for students who would do well in drama and music...would folks (Wilburt?) think coaches should not do that on behalf of athletes? 

Incoming classes all have in them people who have demonstrated all kinds of levels of academic preparation.  If the only ones at a school who have marginal "qualifications" are athletes, I would think that represents a mind-set that is not in step with D3 philosophy (assuming there is such a thing).

[coachwgh]

O.K., just thoughts...The split of D3 will not help the GSAC.  Everyone in the SCAC stays in the SCAC and the same with the ODAC and the same with the USA-South. I am assuming that D3 stays like it is and D4 would be less restrictive on number of sports and mandate shorter seasons and other things that are not cool.  I couldn't imaginge more than 1 school from each conference moving to D4.  That being said unless the GSAC moves to D4 which, I go on the record of not being in favor of, we are still looking through the store front window at the other conferences.  Ahhh, but your saying, "Coach now these conferences would need a school to replace the defectors."  Exactly, and that would lead to the break up of the GSAC not the total inclusion of the conference.  That then leads to our biggest obstacle...geography.  Gosh it feels like I have had this conversation before. 
I can envision D4 being a new home for the small Christian education based schools that are prevelent in Florida, GA and NC.  The NCAA could possibly offer them more than their current affiliate.  I don't know much outside the south but I would imagine the Notheast would be most concerned about this possibility. 
One thing that I don't like about the proposed split is that the more schools that move to D4 means my chance of getting a bid to the national tournament get smaller due to their ratio-matrix-number-thinga-ma-bob.  It is already hard enough to get two schools out of our conference so I would imagine that would be an impossibility with 100 less schools. 

[wilburt]

Drama and music profs lobby financial aid offices for aid for students who would do well in drama and music...would folks (Wilburt?) think coaches should not do that on behalf of athletes? 

I don't know what the line is Doug, that's why I posed the original question.  I personally think it is okay to answer questions as Grubb says, but lobbying for financial aid may cross the line in some people's books.  I don't have an answer but I think it is interesting to talk about it.  To some people "spring football practice" and "redshirting" crosses the line for some D3 athletic directors/coaches right now!  Isn't that how this thing kinda started anyway?

[wilhe]

Good morning:

I was somewhat put off by the web master's declaration that because of the nature of the Fisk schedule he will not follow or cover its progress but I got over it.

I then began to think of the level of coverage that had been his habit and I was relieved.  In 2003 the year that Fisk was the GSAC men's basketball tourny champs I saw nothing that reported that the conference would not advocate for its conference champ to go to the NCAA tournament opting instead for preennial conference rep Maryville who Fisk eliminated in the first round of the tournamet.  I saw nothing but support for the witch hunt by its members designed to denegrate and create a perjorative picture designed to force Fisk out of the conference.  The conference even concocted a Kangaroo(forgive me Kangaroo's of the world) court to do the dastardly deed, but their own bylaws made them look jaundiced.

I've seen nothing here about the commissioner of the conference in his drunken revery at a bistro in Orlando during the last NCAA Convention curling his lip to say "We kick the ....... out of the conference".  What he found out in a matter of seconds was that his comments, designed to amuse the six or seven folks around his table, had been overheard by an alumnae and a Division I Director of Athletics with Fisk ties.  A conference is the HOME of its members not a plantation with cabins out back.

Now, why in God's name would Fisk want to be associated with narrowminded imbeciles stuck in the 19th century whose greatest accomplishments in life is to somehow denegrate the very group of people they pledge to uphold.  Where does it say that I must accept a plate of scatter and consume it with a toothpick to please anyone.

So your tight, well thoughout and fair assessment of the situation wins out on logic: if Fisk steps out of line you'll simply apply the same logic as the GSAC and it commissioner.   

[wilburt]

I've seen nothing here about the commissioner of the conference in his drunken revery at a bistro in Orlando during the last NCAA Convention curling his lip to say "We kick the ....... out of the conference".  What he found out in a matter of seconds was that his comments, designed to amuse the six or seven folks around his table, had been overheard by an alumnae and a Division I Director of Athletics with Fisk ties.  A conference is the HOME of its members not a plantation with cabins out back.

Turns out I was correct about the racism of some in the GSAC after all .

Why would the commissioner of the GSAC say such a thing? 

It's getting a little hot in here!

[colincondi]

Wilhe and Wilburt,

Wilhe:  what the heck are you talking about?  the webmaster's declaration of no coverage?  I have no idea what that means... but if you are insinuating Pat is a racist, you're nuts.  As for Maryville going to the NCAA tourney over Fisk in 2003... I guess you are ignorant of the fact that the GSAC does not get an automatic bid to the NCAA tourney for it's champion.  In fact, the GSAC is not guaranteed it will get a team into the NCAA at all.  The NCAA chose Maryville based on it's 22-6 record that year... it passed over Fisk because of it's 14-14 record that year.  So ripping the GSAC for Maryville going over Fisk just illustrates how ignorant you are.

Wilburt,

The only person I ever recall you calling a racist is Randy Lambert, and on Jan. 5 he was in Lagrange, GA.  He was also in LaGrange on Jan. 6.  On Jan. 7, he was in Demorest, GA.  So the only person you have ever accused of being a racist could not have been the one to ALLEGEDLY make the comment in a bistro in Orlando.  Heck, I don't even know who the GSAC commish is... but to take one unnamed source and treat his/her word as gospel and say "I told you so" seems to be pretty irresponsible. 

Fisk was not kicked out.  They resigned their membership.  Granted, they probably did so because the writing was on the wall, but the fact remains that besides men's basketball (where they had some really good teams), the rest of their athletic program was a joke.  They were not showing up for games.  They were losing 20-0 in soccer, 30-0 in baseball, 9-0 in tennis, etc.

Your rush to say I told you so based on Wilhe's post was quicker than Mike Nifong could count to three.

[old_lion]

Wilburt, my friend, you are nothing if not thoughtful and logical ... but I think you've hitched your horse to the wrong wagon this time.

Seems a lot of wilhe's diatribe was nothing more than hear say ranting ... didn't seem to exactly ooze credibility to me ...

But then you compare wilhe's interpretation of Fisk's not going to the 2003 NCAA tourney to colincondi's interpretation ... well, it's not even close, is it?  I think I'll cast my "credibility vote" with my favorite dual Secretary of State, ColinCondi!

In 2003 the year that Fisk was the GSAC men's basketball tourny champs I saw nothing that reported that the conference would not advocate for its conference champ to go to the NCAA tournament opting instead for preennial conference rep Maryville who Fisk eliminated in the first round of the tournamet.

The NCAA chose Maryville based on it's 22-6 record that year... it passed over Fisk because of it's 14-14 record that year.

Hmmm ... wilhe neglected to mention the small matter of Fisk's 14 -14 record...  I guess he thinks the NCAA is racist too ... based on what? Their recent, well-documented practice of excluding persons of color from their post season events? Wilhe, please!

No, I don't think it was getting hot is here ...

But, after ColinCondi's comments, I'd say ...

It's getting reasonable in here ... as opposed to looney.  

[coachwgh]

The comissioner of the GSAC is Coach Phil Williamson from LaGrange. He wouldn't be caught dead in a "bistro" and he also wouldn't be caught dead with a drink(besides sweet tea) in his hand.  I didn't even drink wine at my own wedding reception until after he left out of respect.  Don't come on here tossing around words you learned off the new Common CD and try to spread hate and disaray.  The GSAC isn't perfect but it is fair.  The only people we don't like are those that can't provide a respectable home setting when visitors travel in and those that can't win with class. 


BTW: I don't call admissions or financial and lobby for more money for any of our recruits.  I guess that is why I don't have a post player over 6'2.

[scottiedoug]

Just to be clear, I have no reason to think that any GSAC coaches lobby with admissions or financial aid offices for more money for recruits.  I also cannot believe that there is no contact between coaches and admissions/financial aid people, even at LaGrange.

If anyone thinks the bistro story is anything but BS, I think he/she needs to rethink how to make a credible point to anyone who is even remotely skeptical of "evidence" that someone he/she does not know is a racist.  I cannot imagine that Wilburt believes that the bistro story has anything at all to do with Randy Lambert.   And from what Coach H says about the GSAC commish, I'd say somebody is making stuff up.

[Pat Coleman]

Good morning:

I was somewhat put off by the web master's declaration that because of the nature of the Fisk schedule he will not follow or cover its progress but I got over it.

I then began to think of the level of coverage that had been his habit and I was relieved.  In 2003 the year that Fisk was the GSAC men's basketball tourny champs I saw nothing that reported that the conference would not advocate for its conference champ to go to the NCAA tournament opting instead for preennial conference rep Maryville who Fisk eliminated in the first round of the tournamet.  I saw nothing but support for the witch hunt by its members designed to denegrate and create a perjorative picture designed to force Fisk out of the conference.  The conference even concocted a Kangaroo(forgive me Kangaroo's of the world) court to do the dastardly deed, but their own bylaws made them look jaundiced.

I've seen nothing here about the commissioner of the conference in his drunken revery at a bistro in Orlando during the last NCAA Convention curling his lip to say "We kick the ....... out of the conference".  What he found out in a matter of seconds was that his comments, designed to amuse the six or seven folks around his table, had been overheard by an alumnae and a Division I Director of Athletics with Fisk ties.  A conference is the HOME of its members not a plantation with cabins out back.

Now, why in God's name would Fisk want to be associated with narrowminded imbeciles stuck in the 19th century whose greatest accomplishments in life is to somehow denegrate the very group of people they pledge to uphold.  Where does it say that I must accept a plate of scatter and consume it with a toothpick to please anyone.

So your tight, well thoughout and fair assessment of the situation wins out on logic: if Fisk steps out of line you'll simply apply the same logic as the GSAC and it commissioner.   

Since you posted from Fisk's campus, I'll let you in on a secret.

Schools that don't provide scores and don't play Division III opponents aren't worth the time trying to chase down info for. Even Rust managed to play 16 Division III opponents last year.

Division III schools are required to play half of their schedule against in-region opponents. If Fisk isn't going to play more than a few opponents, it is not worth our time tracking them.

If you want to be in Division III, schedule like it. Otherwise, no offense, we're not interested.

Call me a narrow-minded imbecile if you like, but you're the one who comes off that way. You're probably not the first athletic director to post here but I am sure you're the first who's come around trying to spread such hate and misinformation.

Here's some times when Fisk was on the front page of D3hoops.com, which you probably didn't realize or didn't care to point out because it didn't fit your biased view:

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=416
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=735
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=1086
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=1085

Please note that I had to go shoot Fisk myself in order to get any game photos.

[Pat Coleman]

I saw nothing that reported that the conference would not advocate for its conference champ to go to the NCAA tournament

I am shocked that an athletic director in Division III doesn't know that the conference has no role in advocating a team for an at-large bid.

[Ralph Turner]

Page 15 of the 2006-07 Men's D3 Basketball Handbook requires a team to play 50% of their scheduled competition against Division III in-region opponents.  (I don't think that there is much difference in the 2007-08 Handbook.)

That is the critical decision to be made by the Fisk Athletic Department.

[Ralph Turner]

And does the impending D3/D4 realignment issue have any relevance for the future of the GSAC? 

Ralph?  Coach Haynes?

Doug what are your thoughts? I see that Coach Haynes has chimed in with his opinions.

Any thoughts from the Maryville faithful on the Division III/IV discussion now that the Summer League discussion is apparently over?

Wilburt, the working document on the Division III/IV decision has the SCAC predominantly "on the fence".  Even the UAA is split on the issue.  I think that the "D-IV's" would like for the programs of the UAA to conform to the requirements of the new division, including asking some schools to add sports in some cases.