MBB: Great South Athletic Conference

[Ralph Turner]

I have heard that Maryville has applied for membership in the USA South without going as an intact conference!

That is going to blow up the GSAC!  NO AQ for the women!

Now we understand Randy Lambert's resignation!  He was going to take his team and go to the USA South!

[scottiedoug]

Ralph:  Why would Lambert need to resign as AD for MC to apply to the USASouth?  And he is still AD now.

Does your information source know whether other GSAC teams and/or the conference as a whole also has applied or will?  Can a conference as an entity apply, or is it always discrete institutions?

[Ralph Turner]

Ralph:  Why would Lambert need to resign as AD for MC to apply to the USASouth?  And he is still AD now.

Does your information source know whether other GSAC teams and/or the conference as a whole also has applied or will?  Can a conference as an entity apply, or is it always discrete institutions?

I have only heard about Maryville for sure.  I would have expected more "noise" if the GSAC were seeking a full merger.

I also wonder if they would take a travel partner (?Piedmont?) with them.  That would provide some protection in other sports to the USA South if CNU and Shenandoah left.

Strategically, LaGrange and Huntingdon on the men are vulnerable, if they don't have the GSAC.  Even Agnes Scott, Spelman and Wesleyan need the GSAC.  Access to the playoffs is critical.  IMHO, everyone in the GSAC needs to hang together.  They can function as a division inside the USA South, if that is the alternative to having their own conference.

The way that conferences are being formed, it will be impossible to get the single Pool B bid that is left after the consolidation takes place.  (See my research and postings on Pool B.)

I know that travel is a concern for Shenandoah and CNU, but Shenandoah wants to be in the ODAC.  Might the addition of  Maryville and Piedmont as another trip each year push Shenandoah even harder to find another conference that is closer?  Like the ODAC?  Or one of the MAC's? The PennAC? The Capital AC? Is CNU enthusiastic about that trip to Maryville and Demorest in each sport every year if they play double round-robin?

I know that the USA South is heavy on women's teams.  Salem (Winston-Salem NC)  is exploring conferences.  The USA South already has 10 women's teams.  That is a challenge.

The Mid-Atlantic shuffle is not over.  Wesley is screaming about the challenge to find football games in October and November.  That is when you need conference games.  Wesley plus Salisbury in the Capital AC need football teams.  We still have reports of Villa Julie exploring football.  I don't know when the "tipping point" occurs on Capital AC adding football.  (Frostburg would line up as an affiliate instantly.)

[scottiedoug]

It's a challenge, isn't it?  But I'd think that Maryville would have tried to get the other GSAC schools together on this and if that did not happen, I would think it is because the other schools do not want to do it.  There is nothing apparent to me that would lead Maryville to want to dis the rest of the league.  Am I missing something?  (that happens pretty regularly....)  I am sure the AQ is important to the Maryville programs besides men's basketball but it must also be important for the other GSAC schools and their various teams.

It is a long trip to CNU and SU from Maryville (also pretty far to Methodist and NCW) and according to a link on the USASouth board lately, CNU's academic standards have gone up to the point that they are having recruiting trouble as compared to their own past. 

[Ralph Turner]

It's a challenge, isn't it?  But I'd think that Maryville would have tried to get the other GSAC schools together on this and if that did not happen, I would think it is because the other schools do not want to do it.  There is nothing apparent to me that would lead Maryville to want to dis the rest of the league.  Am I missing something?  (that happens pretty regularly....)  I am sure the AQ is important to the Maryville programs besides men's basketball but it must also be important for the other GSAC schools and their various teams.

It is a long trip to CNU and SU from Maryville (also pretty far to Methodist and NCW) and according to a link on the USASouth board lately, CNU's academic standards have gone up to the point that they are having recruiting trouble as compared to their own past. 

We will see how this plays out! 

[allsky7]

It's a challenge, isn't it?  But I'd think that Maryville would have tried to get the other GSAC schools together on this and if that did not happen, I would think it is because the other schools do not want to do it.  There is nothing apparent to me that would lead Maryville to want to dis the rest of the league.  Am I missing something?  (that happens pretty regularly....)  I am sure the AQ is important to the Maryville programs besides men's basketball but it must also be important for the other GSAC schools and their various teams.

It is a long trip to CNU and SU from Maryville (also pretty far to Methodist and NCW) and according to a link on the USASouth board lately, CNU's academic standards have gone up to the point that they are having recruiting trouble as compared to their own past. 

     I haven't been following this discussion that closely so may be way off here. Any chance CNU wants in the ODAC? Trible is a Hampden-Sydney alum. Talked to a friend of mine this AM from the beach area. He said the average SAT scores at CNU have risen in the last few years from about 1000 to 1200. That my friends will eliminate a few blue chippers. 

[batteredbard]

My own little birdies are telling me that Piedmont applied to the USA South at the same time but has run into some sort of snag that has stalled if not killed the application. It'll take a little digging but I think this will all come out soon and I doubt it was done behind the conference's back. LaGrange and Huntingdon have 1. a lot farther road distance (crow flies may work for NCAA but lets be realistic about time in a bus seat here) and 2. their football commitments show they will travel but are going the wrong direction NW versus NE) to make it as sweet a deal. Ralph I think you floated out a plan for the women's side of things as a super conference at one point that not only made sense in north and south division terms but also kept the women playing most of their conference sked the way it currently stands.

I think there are other reasons for the RDL departure as AD. I don't discount that he might want to devote all his time to coaching the next four seasons with Wes now verbally committed. Sounds like Corey Welch (WB) has also made the verbal for what its worth in D3.

I kinda like the mental image of having Wes, Watson, Orr, Shumate and Laverdiere against a full court press next season. To quote Anthony Edwards in the classic 80s movie "Its time to turn and burn" 8)

[Spencer Beaty]

Wes is a great player, but he is not a burner.  He can shoot the lights out and there is no way I would have watson and jared on the floor at the same time.  I have not been impressed with jared lately.

[scottiedoug]

First, congratulations to Jake Baldwin for being nominated for the Jostens award.  That's great for him, Piedmont, and the GSAC.

Second, Battered, what else do you know about commitments to the Scots?  RDL said on the radio he had six commitments after the Piedmont game and maybe a couple of more close.  He also said he wanted Eryk at wing, not point, and thus needed to sign someone to play point, I assumed to help Jared. 

[Ralph Turner]

My own little birdies are telling me that Piedmont applied to the USA South at the same time but has run into some sort of snag that has stalled if not killed the application. It'll take a little digging but I think this will all come out soon and I doubt it was done behind the conference's back. LaGrange and Huntingdon have 1. a lot farther road distance (crow flies may work for NCAA but lets be realistic about time in a bus seat here) and 2. their football commitments show they will travel but are going the wrong direction NW versus NE) to make it as sweet a deal. Ralph I think you floated out a plan for the women's side of things as a super conference at one point that not only made sense in north and south division terms but also kept the women playing most of their conference sked the way it currently stands.

I think there are other reasons for the RDL departure as AD. I don't discount that he might want to devote all his time to coaching the next four seasons with Wes now verbally committed. Sounds like Corey Welch (WB) has also made the verbal for what its worth in D3.

I kinda like the mental image of having Wes, Watson, Orr, Shumate and Laverdiere against a full court press next season. To quote Anthony Edwards in the classic 80s movie "Its time to turn and burn" 8)

Bard, with all of the shuffling that has happened around the country, I can see some logical reasons for what has happened, (but I don't understand all of the reasons that some things did and the inter-personal issues that are still present!)

With respect to Huntingdon and LaGrange, the Illini-Badger Football Conference (IBFC) dissolved after the 2007 season because the Northern Illinois-Iowa Conference and Lake Michigan Conference had merged to form the Northern Athletics Conference.  The Northern Athletics Conference now has enough members to get their own Pool A football bid (whenever that happens...2008 at the earliest, 2010 at the most predictable.)

The dissolution of the IBFC freed up some Saint Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (SLIAC) members who had been in the IBFC.  Other SLIAC members had been participating with members of the Upper Midwest Athletic Conference (UMAC).  Those continuing discussions in the UMAC fell apart and the SLIAC members could go back home.  The SLIAC has 6 football playing "core" members. By adding two affiliates (Huntingdon and LaGrange), the SLIAC can get a Pool A bid, probably in 2010.

A team can be a member of one conference that sponsors a sport and yet participate in another conference.  Liberty League member Hamilton does not compete in the Liberty League in football, but rather the NESCAC. Since tentative schedules for two years have probably been made up for the SLIAC, this gives the SLIAC two years to earn their AQ, thanks to Huntingdon and LaGrange.  HC and LaGrange will do well in that conference.

The USA South could acquire the GSAC, permit those those two (HC and LC) to stay in the SLIAC for football, and continue with its current 8 team USA South football format.   The SLIAC gets its AQ, the northern schools of the USA South don't have the football travel obligations to Montgomery and LaGrange, and life goes on.  The USA South operates under a divisional format.

The remaining members of the Upper Midwest Athletic Conference (Crown, Martin Luther, Minn Morris, Northwestern and St. Scholastica), of whom some are finishing provisional status, now needs to grow its conference.  Whatever they do in the next 2-4 years will be interesting.  (The predecessor to the ASC, the Texas Intercollegiate Athletic Association -- TIAA played double round robin when it was a 6-team conference.)

I think that we will see some movement in the mid-Atlantic.  On one level, the "D-IV's" may pull out, but I don't think that affects the USA South, the Capital AC, the GSAC, the even the MAC.  If the ODAC goes to D-IV then okay, but that might be the time that Shenandoah leaves the USA South on the premise of going to D-IV.

As I have looked around that region, the MAC Commonwealth is still one team short of an AQ in multiple sports by 2009-10.  Who do they get?  I don't know whether York PA (from the Capital AC) is candidate, but they are northernmost.  (The Commonwealth does not need a football playing team)  Wesley and Salisbury offer football among the Capital teams.  Villa Julie (Capital AC) is looking at football.  They need a fourth core member before they can go for affiliates.  If York moves, is CNU an attractive "replacement" towards a move to football in the Capital AC?  Is travel in the Capital AC easier for CNU than to Maryville TN and Demorest GA for baseball, soccer, basketball, volleyball, softball, tennis? I can imagine that teams north of Washington, DC may not want to travel south of DC, but what if football becomes a focus of the Capital Athletic Conference?  How much does the USA South love its public school member, CNU?  What does CNU do as it grows?

By 2010 or 2011, the USA South might be needing additional members.  I wonder if the SLIAC will re-evaluate their relationship with Huntingdon and LaGrange when they have the AQ.  Since football is used to add male enrollment and to help with the male:female ratio, other schools may choose to add football.  What if the UMAC schools re-propose a divisional alignment with the SLIAC to get the AQ?  Swapping the UMAC schools and releasing Huntingdon and LaGrange back to the USA South would preserve the AQ all-around, especially if Shenandoah has left the USA South.

A lot of this is driven by the AQ, and by football (male:female student ratios) and D-IV.  I see that conferences can protect themselves from decisions by one school by getting larger.  That is why the ASC at 15-schools has not split into two conferences.  The "split ASC" is just too vulnerable to the actions of one school, e.g., the decisions by University of Dallas to leave in 2001 and Austin College to leave in 2006.

The GSAC can function as the Southern Division.  It slightly dilutes the AQ for the northern schools, but it helps to protect  the men as I have stated.  For now, the North would have 10 women's teams and 7 GSAC teams in the South.  Under the speculation that I have outlined, losing a CNU and a Shenandoah would leave it a 8 and 7.

As for other schools, Fisk and Stillman have gone.  Oglethorpe is happy in the SCAC.  The moratorium's lifting will see if someone like Berry GA or Covenant TN in Lookout Mountain, GA want to join.

That is a long answer, but I think that it summarizes the state of the Southeast as I see it.

[MCScotsFan]

Is all this going to effect my BBQ run to LaGrange?

[Spencer Beaty]

more than likely ScotsFan

[Ralph Turner]

Propsective DIII Members from Northwest Georgia

Please refer to this document that was submitted with the D-III/D-IV information from the working group about prospective future members from the NAIA.

Both are Northwest Georgia.  Who do they describe?  An NAIA-1 (Berry?  It mentions equestrian.) And an NAIA-2.  Covenant? 966 students.

(You also see Centenary College, in Shreveport from D-1.  They are going to the SCAC if they move up to D-III!)

If you add those two schools to the GSAC, you have a 6-team division.  Montreat NC is also mentioned in another portion of the documents as a possible school which has the criteria to join D-III.  There is your 7th!

Montreat College, see page 182.

I think (at least it is my hope) that aggressive leadership in the GSAC can save the conference.

[old_lion]

Congratulations to Jake and Sam ... also to Nikki, Sheena, and Coach Childs-Purdy ... you all have represented us well.
http://www.greatsouth.org/07-08%20News/2_26_08_MBB_All-Conf.htm

Now, to the dark side ...

Enough with the 8 man team soapbox routine.

No, apparently, not nearly enough.

Nice job by the "gsac brain trust" of once again naming an all-conference team by essentially listing the top scorers ...   wow, deep thinkers ... they have once again demonstrated their lack of appreciation for anything that goes on on the floor other than scoring ... sad ... I wish I could say I was surprised ... disappointed again, but not surprised ... 

I understand that, apparently, as is evidenced by the appalling lack of insight and common sense demonstrated, there were a majority of people involved who couldn't count to 21 without getting naked ...

But, I can't understand not being able to get past 8 ...

It has been said that every dark cloud has it's silver lining ...  I am not glad that this season will soon be coming to an end.  I enjoy watching our great guys compete too much to be happy about that. However, the "silver lining" for me is that I will no longer have to be concerned with the absurd* decisions of this Mickey Mouse organization (great south ... how ironic) or with the ineptitude sitting at the Huntingdon scorer's table.

Speaking of which, we all know that having 8 on an all conference team is absurd but it is an equity thing that we are trying to fix.  It won't be this year though.

* Thanks for supplying an appropriate word, Coach Haynes. "Absurd" sounds so much more articulate than "chicken-s**t", which is the other word that comes to mind.  Also, a couple of acronyms that originated in the military (FUBAR & SNAFU) would be more than appropriate in any discussions of the gsac's process and selection criteria.

I shared inside information and said that we are working on it, so just leave it at that.  Just trying to reinstill confidence in the GSAC fan base.

Good luck with that project!  And I believe the appropriate word is instill ... not reinstill. It would be absurd to imply that confidence was ever there previously ...

[mattgrubb]

yeah i was very very surprised when i saw jake green was not all gsac!!!!!!!!!
wow