Pool C

Gregory Sager · October 26, 2007, 01:55:34 AM

Quote from: pabegg on October 25, 2007, 09:30:02 AMI would assume that Nebraska Wesleyan has a standing exemption from the NCAA based on their geography. They were once a basketball power (and started WashU's streak of losing to Wesleyans in the tournament, since extended by Illinois Wesleyan and Virginia Wesleyan). But they haven't been terribly good in recent years.

It's also possible that D3 has rewritten the eligibility rules since the NWU program went into decline.

Pat Coleman · October 26, 2007, 02:04:30 AM

NESCAC football is not factored into the bid allocation, no.

Gregory -- that's my belief as well.

Ralph -- Lincoln is a provisional D-II this year and has started to transition its schedule appropriately.

As for Fisk, I would assume they didn't know the rule was in place. Remember when their AD came onto the GSAC board with all guns blazing over the summer? He didn't seem to know about a lot of things.

Ralph Turner · October 26, 2007, 10:25:32 PM

Thanks, Pat.

My question is to verify that these teams truly belong in Pool B, and Pool B should get the 4th bid, instead of the bid going to Pool C.

Mr. Ypsi · October 26, 2007, 11:43:45 PM

Now, Ralph, you know the NCAA pool B/C routine - check back in February!

Ralph Turner · October 26, 2007, 11:47:57 PM

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 26, 2007, 11:43:45 PM
Now, Ralph, you know the NCAA pool B/C routine - check back in February!

+1!

If the NCAA would just vet some of these things past Pat Coleman and some of Pat's unpaid consultants, things might go more smoothly.

wilburt · October 30, 2007, 01:48:05 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 26, 2007, 02:04:30 AM
As for Fisk, I would assume they didn't know the rule was in place. Remember when their AD came onto the GSAC board with all guns blazing over the summer? He didn't seem to know about a lot of things.

I thought you were not following FISK this year Pat? You know what happens when you ass-u-me?

Pat Coleman · November 02, 2007, 08:53:28 PM

Not sure what you're getting at here, wilburt. There are two possible choices here: Fisk didn't know about the rule requiring 50% in-region play, or knew about it and deliberately flaunted it.

I guess a third option is that they didn't know how to calculate 50%, but that seems unlikely.

pabegg · January 17, 2008, 08:24:47 PM

I'm reviving this board with the first posting on my "estimated NCAA rankings" for games through Sunday 1/13.

Reg Conf Rank School Natl Status Reg Overall
NE 13 01 Mass-Dartmouth 003 A w C 13-0 13-0
NE 90 02 Brandeis 006 C 1 10-1 11-1
NE 16 03 Amherst 007 A w C 10-1 10-2
NE 16 04 Middlebury 010 C 4 9-1 10-2
NE 12 05 Emerson 016 A w C 8-1 9-1
NE 17 06 Worcester Polytech 031 A w C 10-2 11-3
NE 16 07 Trinity (Conn.) 032 C 10 8-2 10-3
NE 14 08 Salem State 037 A w C 9-2 9-2
NE 16 09 Bowdoin 041 C 17 11-2 11-2
NE 13 10 Rhode Island College 045 C second 11-2 11-2
NE 16 11 Tufts 051 C second 7-2 8-4
NE 16 12 Williams 052 C second 11-1 12-1
NE 17 13 Wheaton (Mass.) 062 C third 8-3 9-3
EA 90 01 Rochester 001 A w C 11-0 12-0
EA 23 02 Plattsburgh State 012 A w C 7-0 10-2
EA 21 03 Stevens 015 A w C 12-1 12-1
EA 24 04 Vassar 028 A w C 8-0 8-1
EA 21 05 Nazareth 033 C 11 10-3 10-3
EA 23 06 Geneseo State 046 C second 8-2 9-2
EA 23 07 Oswego State 079 7-3 8-3
EA 24 08 Hamilton 087 6-3 7-3
AT 32 01 Richard Stockton 059 A third 8-3 8-4
AT 32 02 William Paterson 083 10-3 10-3
AT 32 03 New Jersey City 100 7-3 10-4
AT 33 04 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 109 A other 8-2 9-2
AT 33 05 SUNY-Farmingdale 120 7-3 8-4
AT 32 06 Rutgers-Newark 121 7-4 8-6
AT 32 07 Rowan 122 6-4 9-4
AT 31 08 York (N.Y.) 139 A other 9-5 11-6
MA 45 01 Gettysburg 004 A w C 8-1 10-2
MA 42 02 Widener 005 A w C 10-0 12-1
MA 45 02 Ursinus 014 C 5 8-1 11-2
MA 43 04 DeSales 020 A w C 9-0 12-1
MA 42 05 Albright 024 C 7 10-1 10-2
MA 42 06 Elizabethtown 038 C 15 9-1 12-1
MA 42 07 Messiah 042 C second 9-3 10-4
MA 41 08 Hood 050 A second 9-3 11-4
MA 44 09 Immaculata 056 A third 8-2 9-3
MA 41 10 York (Pa.) 065 C third 94 95
MA 43 11 Manhattanville 075 64 94
SO 51 01 Mary Hardin-Baylor 002 A w C 9-0 11-1
SO 52 02 Maryville (Tenn.) 023 B 1 8-2 12-2
SO 53 03 Virginia Wesleyan 025 A w C 8-2 9-3
SO 54 04 Millsaps 026 A w C 8-0 12-1
SO 53 05 Bridgewater (Va.) 030 C 9 4-1 8-2
SO 53 06 Roanoke 034 C 12 7-2 9-2
SO 54 07 Centre 036 C 14 8-1 12-1
SO 51 08 Texas-Dallas 053 C second 9-2 10-3
SO 53 09 Guilford 061 C third 73 83
SO 53 10 Randolph-Macon 073 5-2 10-2
SO 54 11 Trinity (Texas) 077 72 112
GL 90 01 Carnegie Mellon 008 C 2 7-1 10-2
GL 64 02 Capital 017 A w C 10-2 11-2
GL 62 03 Hope 019 A w C 4-1 10-2
GL 64 04 Heidelberg 021 C 6 9-1 11-2
GL 63 05 Wooster 027 A w C 4-1 11-2
GL 64 06 Wilmington 054 C second 9-3 9-5
GL 63 07 Ohio Wesleyan 058 C third 7-2 8-4
GL 64 08 Ohio Northern 060 C third 6-3 9-5
GL 61 09 Lake Erie 084 A other 8-2 8-4
MW 90 01 Washington U. 009 C 3 7-1 10-2
MW 71 02 Wheaton (Ill.) 018 A w C 8-2 11-2
MW 71 03 Augustana 040 C 16 9-3 10-3
MW 74 04 Lawrence 044 A second 5-1 7-1
MW 76 05 Westminster (Mo.) 048 A second 5-0 8-3
MW 71 06 Elmhurst 055 C second 10-2 11-2
MW 72 07 Defiance 076 A other 8-4 10-4
MW 71 08 Carthage 078 3-2 6-6
MW 71 09 Illinois Wesleyan 082 6-4 7-6
MW 73 10 Aurora 095 B 3 93 113
MW 90 11 Chicago 101 65 75
WE 83 01 Puget Sound 011 A w C 7-0 11-1
WE 81 02 Loras 013 A w C 7-1 10-3
WE 86 03 UW-Oshkosh 022 A w C 8-2 11-3
WE 86 04 UW-Whitewater 029 C 8 10-2 12-2
WE 86 05 UW-Stevens Point 035 C 13 9-3 11-3
WE 84 06 Occidental 039 A w C 5-1 10-2
WE 81 07 Buena Vista 043 C second 7-1 11-3
WE 82 08 St. Thomas 047 A second 8-2 10-3
WE 82 09 Carleton 049 C second 10-2 10-2
WE 89 10 Nebraska Wesleyan 057 B 2 6-1 9-5
WE 84 11 Cal Lutheran 064 C third 8-2 10-2

Reg Region
Conf Conference number
Rank Regional ranking
Prior Prior regional ranking
School
Natl National ranking based on regional results
Status
B + number: Pool B ranking (top 4 in tournament)
C + number: Pool C ranking of 18 teams in tournament
C second: second tier Pool C (spots 19-28)
C third: third tier Pool C (spots 29-38)
A w C: Pool A, in likely Pool C range (1 to 13)
A second: Pool A, in second tier Pool C
A third: Pool A, in third tier Pool C
blank: lower level Pool C

Here's how this works. I'm showing the same number of teams as in the regional rankings, plus 3 extra teams (like the old Honorable Mentions).

I've replaced the old QOWI/SOSI numbers with the RPI, so the ranking is a blend of RPI and winning percentage. I have no idea if this corresponds to how the committees will use the numbers this year, but it gives us something to start with.

Pool A teams are selected as the team with the best ranking in the conference; most of this is obvious in the regional rankings. Then the B and C teams are assigned in order.

Anyway, the UAA has the #1 spot in three regions, plus #2 in another. Wow. And 6 NESCAC teams on the list.

LogShow · January 17, 2008, 10:08:01 PM

Its not even February yet and you are already crunching numbers!

pabegg · January 18, 2008, 07:58:12 AM

Sac let me know that Hope's regional record was 5-1, not 4-1. I checked and Hope-Carthage is under 200 miles according to the committee.

All this really does is move Hope ahead of Capital in the rankings.

sac · January 18, 2008, 01:51:43 PM

Quote from: pabegg on January 18, 2008, 07:58:12 AM
I checked and Hope-Carthage is under 200 miles according to the committee.

The committee yes, Rand-McNally no.

pabegg · January 21, 2008, 10:02:18 PM

Reg Conf Rank Prior School Natl Status Reg Overall
NE 13 01 01 Mass-Dartmouth 002 A w C 15-0 15-0
NE 16 02 03 Amherst 003 A w C 13-1 13-2
NE 16 03 04 Middlebury 006 C 2 12-1 13-2
NE 90 04 02 Brandeis 010 C 3 11-2 12-2
NE 16 05 07 Trinity (Conn.) 013 C 5 11-2 13-3
NE 13 06 10 Rhode Island College 024 C 9 13-2 13-2
NE 12 07 05 Emerson 027 A w C 11-1 12-1
NE 16 08 14 Connecticut College 033 C 12 11-2 12-2
NE 16 09 09 Bowdoin 034 C 13 13-3 13-3
NE 17 10 06 Worcester Polytech 038 A w C 11-3 12-4
NE 16 11 12 Williams 047 C second 13-2 14-2
NE 14 12 08 Salem State 049 A second 10-3 10-3
NE 17 13 18 Coast Guard 055 C second 10-3 11-3

EA 90 01 01 Rochester 001 A w C 13-0 14-0
EA 23 02 02 Plattsburgh State 008 A w C 9-0 12-2
EA 24 03 04 Vassar 017 A w C 10-0 10-1
EA 21 04 05 Nazareth 030 A w C 11-4 11-4
EA 21 05 03 Stevens 039 C 16 13-2 13-2
EA 23 06 09 Brockport State 045 C second 7-3 9-5
EA 24 07 11 St. Lawrence 057 C third 6-3 7-6
EA 23 08 07 Oswego State 062 C third 8-4 9-4

AT 32 01 01 Richard Stockton 051 A second 10-3 10-4
AT 32 02 02 William Paterson 060 C third 12-3 12-3
AT 33 03 05 SUNY-Farmingdale 073 A other 9-3 10-4
AT 32 04 03 New Jersey City 096 8-4 11-5
AT 33 05 09 SUNY-Old Westbury 121 8-5 8-7
AT 32 06 06 Rutgers-Newark 123 8-5 9-7
AT 33 07 04 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 124 10-3 11-3
AT 31 08 08 York (N.Y.) 126 A other 11-5 13-6

MA 45 01 03 Ursinus 004 A w C 10-1 13-2
MA 42 02 02 Widener 007 A w C 11-0 14-1
MA 42 03 06 Elizabethtown 012 C 4 10-1 13-1
MA 45 04 01 Gettysburg 018 C 6 9-2 11-3
MA 43 05 04 DeSales 023 A w C 10-1 13-2
MA 42 06 07 Messiah 032 C 11 9-3 11-4
MA 42 07 05 Albright 035 C 14 10-2 10-3
MA 41 08 08 Hood 037 A w C 10-3 12-4
MA 44 09 09 Immaculata 067 A other 9-3 10-4
MA 41 10 10 York (Pa.) 070 105 106
MA 46 11 12 Juniata 076 B 3 104 115

SO 54 01 04 Millsaps 011 A w C 11-0 15-1
SO 53 02 06 Roanoke 014 A w C 9-2 11-2
SO 53 03 03 Virginia Wesleyan 021 C 8 10-2 11-3
SO 51 04 01 Mary Hardin-Baylor 022 A w C 9-2 11-3
SO 52 05 02 Maryville (Tenn.) 025 B 1 10-2 15-2
SO 53 06 10 Randolph-Macon 042 C 18 7-2 12-2
SO 54 07 07 Centre 050 C second 10-1 14-1
SO 54 08 11 Trinity (Texas) 059 C third 8-2 12-3
SO 53 09 09 Guilford 069 84 94
SO 53 10 16 Washington and Lee 071 5-3 7-5
SO 51 11 18 Mississippi College 072 83 113

GL 62 01 03 Hope 009 A w C 7-1 12-2
GL 64 02 02 Capital 015 A w C 12-2 13-2
GL 64 03 04 Heidelberg 019 C 7 10-2 12-3
GL 90 04 01 Carnegie Mellon 046 C second 7-3 10-4
GL 63 05 05 Wooster 064 A third 5-2 12-3
GL 63 06 07 Ohio Wesleyan 080 8-3 9-5
GL 64 07 06 Wilmington 081 10-4 10-6
GL 64 08 11 Muskingum 086 8-3 9-4
GL 63 09 12 Wabash 088 7-3 10-5

MW 90 01 01 Washington U. 005 C 1 9-1 12-2
MW 71 02 02 Wheaton (Ill.) 028 A w C 9-3 12-3
MW 74 03 04 Lawrence 029 A w C 8-1 10-1
MW 71 04 03 Augustana 044 C second 10-4 11-4
MW 74 05 12 Carroll 052 C second 8-3 9-3
MW 71 06 06 Elmhurst 058 C third 11-3 12-3
MW 71 07 08 Carthage 063 C third 5-3 9-6
MW 90 08 11 Chicago 082 8-5 9-5
MW 71 09 09 Illinois Wesleyan 090 7-5 8-7
MW 72 10 07 Defiance 092 A other 95 115
MW 73 11 10 Aurora 095 B 6 113 133

WE 81 01 07 Buena Vista 016 A w C 9-1 13-3
WE 86 02 05 UW-Stevens Point 020 A w C 11-3 13-3
WE 86 03 04 UW-Whitewater 026 C 10 11-2 13-2
WE 83 04 01 Puget Sound 031 A w C 8-1 12-2
WE 86 05 03 UW-Oshkosh 036 C 15 9-3 12-4
WE 83 06 17 Whitworth 040 C 17 9-2 11-3
WE 84 07 06 Occidental 041 A w C 7-1 12-2
WE 82 08 08 St. Thomas 043 A second 9-2 11-3
WE 84 09 11 Cal Lutheran 048 C second 10-2 12-2
WE 81 10 02 Loras 053 C second 7-3 10-5
WE 86 11 12 UW-Platteville 054 C second 10-3 11-4

Moving up: Buena Vista, Rhode Island, Lawrence, Messiah, Conn College, Hood, Whitworth, and Randolph-Macon.

Falling down: Augustana, Carnegie Mellon (in a big way), Centre, Salem State, Loras, Wooster, Bridgewater (Va)

pabegg · January 27, 2008, 09:34:21 PM

Reg Conf Rank Prior School Natl Status Reg Overall

NE 13 01 01 Mass-Dartmouth 001 A w C 17-0 17-0
NE 16 02 02 Amherst 002 A w C 16-1 16-2
NE 16 03 05 Trinity (Conn.) 015 C 3 12-3 14-4
NE 16 04 03 Middlebury 017 C 4 12-3 13-4
NE 16 05 09 Bowdoin 026 C 10 15-3 15-3
NE 90 06 04 Brandeis 030 C 11 11-4 12-4
NE 12 07 07 Emerson 033 A w C 12-2 13-2
NE 16 08 11 Williams 035 C 13 14-3 15-3
NE 16 09 08 Connecticut College 036 C 14 13-3 14-3
NE 17 10 10 Worcester Polytech 051 A second 12-4 13-5
NE 12 11 17 Emmanuel 052 C second 11-3 11-5
NE 13 12 06 Rhode Island College 057 C third 13-4 13-4
NE 14 13 12 Salem State 064 A third 11-4 11-4

EA 23 01 02 Plattsburgh State 003 A w C 11-0 14-2
EA 90 02 01 Rochester 004 A w C 14-1 15-1
EA 21 03 04 Nazareth 027 A w C 13-4 13-4
EA 21 04 05 Stevens 041 C 18 15-2 15-2
EA 24 05 07 St. Lawrence 042 A second 9-3 10-6
EA 23 06 06 Brockport State 053 C second 8-4 10-6
EA 23 07 08 Oswego State 060 C third 10-4 11-4
EA 24 08 03 Vassar 067 C third 11-2 11-3

AT 32 01 01 Richard Stockton 037 A w C 13-3 13-4
AT 32 02 02 William Paterson 045 C second 14-3 14-3
AT 33 03 03 SUNY-Farmingdale 068 A other 11-3 12-4
AT 32 04 04 New Jersey City 090 9-5 12-6
AT 33 05 05 SUNY-Old Westbury 092 10-5 10-7
AT 33 06 07 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 097 12-3 13-3
AT 31 07 08 York (N.Y.) 109 A other 12-5 14-6
AT 32 08 06 Rutgers-Newark 112 10-5 11-7

MA 45 01 01 Ursinus 006 A w C 12-1 15-2
MA 42 02 02 Widener 007 A w C 12-1 15-2
MA 43 03 05 DeSales 011 A w C 12-1 15-2
MA 45 04 04 Gettysburg 014 C 2 11-2 13-3
MA 42 05 07 Albright 019 C 6 12-2 12-3
MA 42 06 03 Elizabethtown 020 C 7 11-2 14-2
MA 42 07 06 Messiah 043 C second 10-4 12-5
MA 44 08 09 Immaculata 054 A second 12-3 13-4
MA 41 09 10 York (Pa.) 061 C third 12-5 12-6
MA 41 10 08 Hood 081 A other 105 126
MA 45 11 17 McDaniel 094 115 125

SO 51 01 04 Mary Hardin-Baylor 016 A w C 11-2 13-3
SO 53 02 03 Virginia Wesleyan 021 A w C 12-2 13-3
SO 54 03 07 Centre 022 C 8 12-1 16-1
SO 53 04 02 Roanoke 023 C 9 11-3 13-3
SO 52 05 05 Maryville (Tenn.) 025 B 1 11-2 16-2
SO 54 06 01 Millsaps 032 A w C 11-2 15-3
SO 53 07 09 Guilford 049 C second 11-4 12-4
SO 54 08 14 DePauw 050 C second 12-3 14-4
SO 51 09 11 Mississippi College 055 C second 103 133
SO 53 10 06 Randolph-Macon 056 C third 8-3 13-3
SO 53 11 10 Washington and Lee 058 C third 83 105

GL 62 01 01 Hope 008 A w C 9-1 14-2
GL 64 02 03 Heidelberg 013 A w C 12-2 14-3
GL 64 03 02 Capital 018 C 5 14-2 15-2
GL 63 04 06 Ohio Wesleyan 047 A second 10-3 11-5
GL 90 05 04 Carnegie Mellon 069 8-4 11-5
GL 63 06 05 Wooster 073 7-2 14-3
GL 61 07 11 Penn State-Behrend 084 A other 12-3 13-4
GL 63 08 09 Wabash 086 9-3 12-5
GL 64 09 07 Wilmington 087 10-5 10-7

MW 90 01 01 Washington U. 005 C 1 11-1 14-2
MW 74 02 03 Lawrence 012 A w C 11-1 13-1
MW 71 03 04 Augustana 031 A w C 12-4 13-4
MW 71 04 02 Wheaton (Ill.) 039 C 16 10-4 13-4
MW 71 05 07 Carthage 044 C second 7-3 11-6
MW 90 06 08 Chicago 062 C third 10-5 11-5
MW 71 07 06 Elmhurst 066 C third 12-4 13-4
MW 71 08 09 Illinois Wesleyan 070 9-5 10-7
MW 72 09 10 Defiance 078 A other 11-5 13-5
MW 73 10 11 Aurora 082 B 4 133 153
MW 76 11 18 Fontbonne 105 A other 92 133

WE 81 01 01 Buena Vista 009 A w C 11-1 15-3
WE 84 02 07 Occidental 010 A w C 9-1 14-2
WE 83 03 04 Puget Sound 024 A w C 10-1 14-2
WE 82 04 08 St. Thomas 028 A w C 12-2 14-3
WE 86 05 02 UW-Stevens Point 029 A w C 12-4 14-4
WE 86 06 11 UW-Platteville 034 C 12 12-3 13-4
WE 86 07 05 UW-Oshkosh 038 C 15 10-4 13-5
WE 86 08 03 UW-Whitewater 040 C 17 12-3 14-3
WE 81 09 10 Loras 046 C second 10-3 13-5
WE 84 10 09 Cal Lutheran 048 C second 11-3 13-3
WE 89 11 14 Nebraska Wesleyan 063 B 2 6-1 10-7

Moving up: Bowdoin, Mary Hardin-Baylor, Centre, Millsaps, Occidental
Moving down: Vassar, Elizabethtown, Randolph-Macon, UW-Whitewater

We're getting closer to the real rankings.

LogShow · January 27, 2008, 10:27:52 PM

I know its early...but with all the UW schools beating each other up it seems like the WIAC getting an at-large bid might already be out the window.

ChicagoHopeNut · January 28, 2008, 10:06:15 AM

Quote from: LogShow on January 27, 2008, 10:27:52 PM
I know its early...but with all the UW schools beating each other up it seems like the WIAC getting an at-large bid might already be out the window.

You may be right, which is sort of too bad. Looking at pabegg's numbers the UW's have C-12, 15, and 17 with a number of meetings against each other and a conference tourney still to come. I think the possibility exists that they could beat themselves out of the tourney, which is unfortunate because I think there should be at least two WIAC teams.