Pool C

[Mr. Ypsi]

Wooster was absolutely CRUSHED by Wabash tonight, but since margin of victory (defeat) is not a criterion, I certainly assume they are a leadpipe-cinch for a C.  Our first (though probably not last) diminution of the C pool.

[pabegg]

With Oxy and Cal Lutheran at the half, here's my take on the Pool C damage tonight.

Wooster becomes the first Pool C team on the men's side with their loss.

Heidelberg, Millsaps and Virginia Wesleyan erased any questions about Pool C bids with their wins; they are now locks, if they weren't already.

PS-Behrend is close to a lock now with the win.

Rhode Island College solidified their status on the bubble.

Brockport, St. Lawrence, Albion and Wheaton joined the UW-Platteville brigade of "not looking good."

Randolph-Macon, Mississippi College, and DePauw said goodbye. I think Stevens did too, although their loss wasn't as bad a loss as the others.

Elms and Nazareth improved their slim hopes for a Pool C.

Ohio Wesleyan became the favorite for the Pool A bid out of the NCAC, but may have taken a slight hit on their Pool C chances because a loss to Wabash would hurt them more than a loss to Wooster.

More in the morning.

[Mr. Ypsi]

With Oxy and Cal Lu both losing, would I fit with other's perceptions to say that Oxy is our second pool C, and Cal Lu is on the low side of the bubble?  Or are both in danger?  (Or both safe?)

d3 'island' teams are tough!

[Greek Tragedy]

I'll make RED the tournament (AQ) winners
I'll make BLUE Pool C contenders

Was it GREEN that I can't use? (color blind)

Don't worry, there will be a lot more color come Sunday!

Team W-L  Reg.
W-L OWP OOWP

Atlantic Region
1. Richard Stockton  18-6  18-5 .511 .521 (NJAC):  Def. Ramapo 60-59 in NJAC semis; plays William Paterson in NJAC final on Sat.
2. William Paterson  18-6  18-6 .526 .516 (NJAC):  Def. Monclair State 71-61 in NJAC semis; plays Richard Stockton in NJAC final on Sat.
3. Farmingdale State  20-5  19-4 .466 .477 (SKY):  Def. SUNY-Maritime 84-69 in Skyline semis; plays St. Joseph's (L.I.) in Skyline final on Sat.
4. York (N.Y.)  20-8  18-7 .539 .502 (CUNYAC):  LOST to John Jay in CUNYAC final 68-54.
5. St. Joseph's (L.I.)  20-5  19-5 .433 .477 (SKY):  Def. Yeshiva 73-52 in Skyline semis; plays Farmingdale State in Skyline final on Sat.

East Region
1. Plattsburgh State  23-2  20-0 .496 .527 (SUNYAC):  Def. Fredonia State 72-62 in SUNYAC quarters; def. Geneseo State 65-57 in SUNYAC semis; plays Owego State in SUNYAC finals on Sat.
2. Rochester  19-5  18-5 .595 .565 (UAA):  Plays at Carnegie Mellon on Sat.
3. St. Lawrence  17-8  16-5 .555 .515 (Liberty):  LOST to Clarkson 54-48 in Liberty semis.
4. Brockport State  18-7  15-5 .570 .531 (SUNYAC):  Def. Oneonta State 77-70 in SUNYAC quarters; LOST to Oswego State 87-72 in SUNYAC semis .
5. Stevens  20-5 20-5 .460 .524 (Empire 8 ):  LOST to Nazareth 81-70 at Ithaca in E8 semis.

Great Lakes Region
1. Hope  21-3  15-2 .508 .494 (MIAA):  Def. Alma 75-51 in MIAA 1st round; def. Adrian 83-64 in MIAA semis; plays Calvin in MIAA final on Sat.
2. Capital  21-4  20-4 .528 .524 (OAC):  Def. Mount Union 67-54 in OAC quarters; def. Ohio Northern 81-76 in OAC semis; plays Heidelberg in OAC final on Sat.
3. Wooster  22-3  15-2 .484 .490 (NCAC):  Def. Oberlin 104-71 in NCAC quarters; LOST to Wabash 87-63 in NCAC semis.
4. Heidelberg  20-5  18-4 .519 .521 (OAC):  Def. John Carroll 104-74 in OAC quarters; def. Baldwin-Wallace 99-80 in OAC semis; plays Capital in OAC final on Sat..
5. Penn State-Behrend  21-4  19-3 .466 .492 (AMCC):  Def. Penn State-Altoona 62-42 in AMCC semis; plays Lake Erie in AMCC final on Sat.
6. Albion  18-5  14-3 .476 .496 (MIAA):  Def. Kalamazoo 64-56 in MIAA 1st round; LOST to Calvin 75-58 at Hope in MIAA semis

Middle Atlantic Region
1. Ursinus  23-2  20-1 .512 .515 (Centennial):  Plays Dickinson in Cent. semis on Sat.
2. Gettysburg  21-3  19-2 .529 .516 (Centennial):  Plays Johns Hopkins at Ursinus in Cent. semis on Sat.
3. Widener  20-5  17-4 .560 .535 (MACC):  Won at Albright 67-53 in MACC semis; plays at Lycoming in MACC final on Sat.
4. York (Pa.)  18-7  18-6 .539 .502 (CAC):  LOST to Salisbury 76-71 in CAC quarters.
5. DeSales  20-5  16-4 .465 .506 (MACF):  Def. Wilkes 69-53 in MACF semis; plays King's in MACF final on Sat.
6. Albright  16-7  16-6 .559 .544 (MACC):  LOST to Widener 67-53 in MACC semis.
7. Lycoming  16-9  13-8 .567 .554 (MACC):  Def. Lebanon Valley 71-56 in MACC semis; plays Widener in MACC final on Sat.
8. Scranton  17-8  15-8 .538 .504 (LAND):  Won at Moravian 79-78 in Landmark semis; plays Juniata in Landmark final on Sat.

Midwest Region
1. Augustana  20-5  19-5 .575 .555 (CCIW):  Def. Elmhurst 69-68 OT in CCIW semis; plays Illinois Wesleyan in CCIW final on Sat.
2. Washington U.  19-5  16-4 .647 .565 (UAA):  Plays at Chicago on Sat.
3. Lawrence  20-2  18-2 .555 .515 (MWC):  Def St. Norbert 59-58 in MWC semis; plays Carroll in MWC final on Sat.
4. Wheaton (Ill.)  19-6  15-6 .577 .549 (CCIW):  LOST Illinois Wesleyan 81-78 in CCIW semis at Augustana.
5. Chicago  17-7  16-7 .605 .568 (UAA):  Plays Washington U. on Sat.
6. Elmhurst  18-7  17-7 .505 .537 (CCIW):  LOST at Augustana 69-68 OT in CCIW semis.
7. Aurora  20-5  18-5 .465 .496 (NathCon):  Def. Benedictine 96-75 in NathCon quarters; def. MSOE 89-64 in NathCon semis; plays Lakeland in NathCon final on Sun.
8. Webster  19-5  17-5 .492 .481 (SLIAC): Def. Westminster (Mo.) 62-40; LOST to Maryville (Mo.) 76-73 in SLIAC semis.

Northeast Region
1. Amherst  23-2  23-1 .601 .553 (NESCAC):  Plays Bowdoin in NESCAC semis on Sat.
2. Mass-Dartmouth  23-2  23-2 .530 .529 (Little East):  Def. Mass-Boston 131-63 in LE quarters; def. Southern Maine 75-69 in LE semis; plays Rhode Island College in Little East final on Sat.
3. Brandeis  19-5  18-5 .610 .580 (UAA):  Plays NYU on Sat.
4. Worcester Tech  20-5  19-4 .535 .495 (NEWMAC):  Plays Babson in NEWMAC semis on Sat.
5. Bowdoin  20-5  20-5 .571 .533 (NESCAC):  Plays at Amherst in NESCAC semis on Sat.
6. Rhode Island College  19-6  19-6 .545 .529 (LEC):  Def. Plymouth State 77-58 in LEC quarters; def. Keene State 68-63 at UMass-Dartmouth in LEC semis; plays Mass-Dartmouth in Little East final on Sat.
7. Trinity (Conn.)  19-6  17-5 .615 .549 (NESCAC):  Plays Middlebury at Amherst in NESCAC semis on Sat.
8. Middlebury  19-6  18-5 .596 .528 (NESCAC):  Plays Trinity (Conn.) at Amherst in NESCAC semis on Sat.
9. Emerson  22-3  21-3 .442 .499 (GNAC):  Def. Daniel Webster 93-70 in GNAC quarters; def. St. Joseph's (Maine) 79-75 in GNAC semis; plays Lasell in GNAC final on Sat (?)
10. Elms  19-6  17-5 .512 .483 (NAC):  Def. Maine-Farmington 79-65 in NAC quarters; def. Becker 78-53 in NAC semis; plays Lesley in NAC final on Sat.

South Region
1. Centre  23-1  18-1 .503 .498 (SCAC):  Def. Austin 67-53 at Hendrix in SCAC quarters; plays Trinity (TX) in SCAC semis on Sat.
2. Mary Hardin-Baylor  22-3  20-2 .494 .505 (ASC):  Def. East Texas Baptist 66-50 in ASC quarters; plays Hardin-Simmons in ASC semis on Sat.
3. Guilford  21-4  20-4 .531 .527 (ODAC):  Def. Eastern Mennonite 81-66 in ODAC quarters; plays Roanoke in ODAC semis on Sat.
4. Virginia Wesleyan  20-5  19-4 .520 .522 (ODAC):  Def. Bridgewater 78-69 in ODAC quarters; plays Hampden-Sydney in ODAC semis on Sat.
5. Millsaps  22-3  17-2 .476 .493 (SCAC):  Def. Rhodes 86-57 at Hendrix in SCAC quarters; plays Hendrix in SCAC semis on Sat.
6. Maryville (Tenn.)  22-2  16-2 .451 .497 (GSAC):  Def. Huntingdon 84-65 at Piedmont in GSAC semis; plays Piedmont in GSAC final on Sat.
7. Randolph-Macon  20-5  15-5 .538 .527 (ODAC):  LOST to Hampden-Sydney 69-67 in ODAC quarters.
8. Mississippi College  19-5  16-5 .507 .507 (ASC):  LOST to Howard Payne 94-90  (OT) in ASC quarters.

West Region
1. UW-Whitewater  21-4  19-4 .492 .540 (WIAC):  Def. Stout 78-67 in WIAC quarters; Def. Superior 77-73 OT in WIAC semis; Plays Stevens Point in WIAC final on Sat.
2. St. Thomas  21-4  19-3 .499 .522 (MIAC):  Def. Bethel 69-68  in MIAC semis; plays Gustavus Adolphus in MIAC final on Sat. (?)
3. Occidental  20-4  13-3 .531 .527 (SCIAC):  Def. La Verne 67-57; LOST Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 66-62 in SCIAC semis.
4. UW-Stevens Point  20-5  18-5 .575 .525 (WIAC):  Def. La Crosse 74-66 OT in WIAC quarters; def. Eau Claire 88-65 in WIAC semis; plays at Whitewater in WIAC final on Sat.
5. Buena Vista  20-5  16-3 .496 .528 (IIAC):  Def. Dubuque 91-86 in IIAC semis; plays Loras in IIAC final.
6. Cal Lutheran  20-4  16-4 .498 .529 (SCIAC):  Def. Ponoma-Pitzer 70-51; LOST to Pomona-Pitzer 54-44 in SCIAC semis.
7. UW-Platteville  19-6  17-5 .526 .535 (WIAC):  LOST to Eau Claire 84-80 in WIAC quarters.
8. Loras  19-6  16-4 .518 .535 Def. Coe in 82-64 IIAC semis; plays Buena Vista in IIAC final.

[Just Bill]

I've got no stats, but I seem to recall at least 4 or 5 concussions this year in d3 alone just from reading the boards.

Thanks, everyone else can ignore my question.  I did a search.

I was already working on that part... 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Ohio Wesleyan became the favorite for the Pool A bid out of the NCAC, but may have taken a slight hit on their Pool C chances because a loss to Wabash would hurt them more than a loss to Wooster.

You think Ohio Wesleyan is better than Wabash?  Wabash has impressed me all season long.  I've thought of them as the second best team in the conference most of the year.  Ohio Wesleyan doesn't play well on the road.  I guess Wabash did finish lower in the conference, but I don't think you can say one team is clearly better than the other.  I'll take Wabash to get the Pool A bid.

[David Collinge]

Ohio Wesleyan became the favorite for the Pool A bid out of the NCAC, but may have taken a slight hit on their Pool C chances because a loss to Wabash would hurt them more than a loss to Wooster.

You think Ohio Wesleyan is better than Wabash?  Wabash has impressed me all season long.  I've thought of them as the second best team in the conference most of the year.  Ohio Wesleyan doesn't play well on the road.  I guess Wabash did finish lower in the conference, but I don't think you can say one team is clearly better than the other.  I'll take Wabash to get the Pool A bid.

OWU finished second in the NCAC at 12-4; Wabash was 5th at 10-6.  The teams split, with Wabash winning at home by 5 and OWU winning at home by 29.  OWU beat Wittenberg on the road, beat Albion at a neutral site, and lost close games at both Wooster and Rochester. 

With everything that Patrick does for these conversations, I don't expect him to have inside knowledge of all of the conference races.  When he says that OWU is the favorite, I'm sure he's merely reflecting the fact that they are the #2 seed vs. Wabash as the #5 seed.  In my opinion, OWU has been the better team all season, but Wabash is certainly peaking at the right time, and to me this game is a pick'em.

[algernon]

I'm throwing this out and asking others to tell me where I'm wrong with this list.  Thanks!

Certain Pool Cs (with 7 spots already taken)?
1)   NJAC runnerup (Richard Stockton / Wm. Paterson)
2)   Rochester
3)   Brandeis
4)   OAC Runnerup: Capital/Heidelberg
5)   Wooster
6)   Second ODAC team (Guilford / Virginia Wesleyan)
7)   WIAC runnerup
8 )   Plattsburgh State, if not the AQ
9)   Ursinus, if not the AQ
10)   Washington U, if not the AQ
11)   Hope, if not the AQ
12)   Augustana, if not the AQ
13)   Lawrence, if not the AQ
14)   Amherst, if not the AQ
15)   Centre, if not the AQ
16)   Mary Hardin-Baylor, if not the AQ
17)   Mass-Dartmouth, if not the AQ

Possible Pool Cs? - order is arbitrary
1)   Skyline runnerup (St. Joseph's / Farmingdale State)
2)   Brockport State
3)   St. Lawrence
4)   Stevens
5)   Albion
6)   York
7)   DeSales, if not the AQ
8 )   Widener, if not the AQ
9)   Albright
10)   Gettysburg, if not the AQ
11)   Illinois Wesleyan
12)   Webster
13)   Bowdoin, if not the AQ
14)   Millsaps, if not the AQ
15)   Maryville, if not the AQ
16)   Virginia Wesleyan, if not the AQ
17)     St. Thomas, if not the AQ
18)   Randolph-Macon
19)   Mississippi College
20)   IIAC runnerup (Buena Vista / Loras)
21)   Cal Lutheran
22)   UW - Platteville
23)   Occidental
24)    Elmhurst
25)    Wheaton
26)    Worcester Tech, if not the AQ

[Cards7580]

"...2)   Brockport State..."

the loses to Geneseo and Oswego late will hurt

[Titan Q]

Possible Pool Cs?
1)   Skyline runnerup (St. Joseph's / Farmingdale State)
2)   Brockport State
3)   St. Lawrence
4)   Stevens
5)   Albion
6)   York
7)   DeSales, if not the AQ
8 )   Widener, if not the AQ
9)   Albright
10)   Wheaton
11)   Elmhurst
12)   Webster
13)   Aurora
14)   Bowdoin, if not the AQ
15)   Millsaps, if not the AQ
16)   Maryville, if not the AQ
17)   Virginia Wesleyan, if not the AQ
18)   Randolph-Macon
19)   Mississippi College
20)   IIAC runnerup (Buena Vista / Loras)
21)   Cal Lutheran
22)   UW - Platteville
23)   Occidental

After last night, when all 5 criteria are applied, Illinois Wesleyan is actually the CCIW's #1 Pool C team - not Wheaton or Elmhurst.

[kiltedbryan]

4)   NCAC Runnerup: Capital/Heidelberg

Thanks for the list, algernon.  Cap/'Berg is for the OAC title/OAC runner up.  NCAC final is Wabash/OWU, neither of which likely gets Pool C consideration.

[algernon]

Thanks for the corrections and input.  I've already made some changes to the list above.

[jagluski]

I'm throwing this out and asking others to tell me where I'm wrong with this list.  Thanks!

Certain Pool Cs (with 7 spots already taken)?
1)   NJAC runnerup (Richard Stockton / Wm. Paterson)
2)   Rochester
3)   Brandeis
4)   OAC Runnerup: Capital/Heidelberg
5)   Wooster
6)   Second ODAC team (Guilford / Virginia Wesleyan)
7)   WIAC runnerup
8 )   Plattsburgh State, if not the AQ
9)   Ursinus, if not the AQ
10)   Washington U, if not the AQ
11)   Hope, if not the AQ
12)   Augustana, if not the AQ
13)   Lawrence, if not the AQ
14)   Amherst, if not the AQ
15)   Centre, if not the AQ
16)   Mary Hardin-Baylor, if not the AQ
17)   St. Thomas, if not the runnerup

Possible Pool Cs? - order is arbitrary
1)   Skyline runnerup (St. Joseph's / Farmingdale State)
2)   Brockport State
3)   St. Lawrence
4)   Stevens
5)   Albion
6)   York
7)   DeSales, if not the AQ
8 )   Widener, if not the AQ
9)   Albright
10)   Gettysburg, if not the AQ
11)   Illinois Wesleyan
12)   Webster
13)   Aurora
14)   Bowdoin, if not the AQ
15)   Millsaps, if not the AQ
16)   Maryville, if not the AQ
17)   Virginia Wesleyan, if not the AQ
18)   Randolph-Macon
19)   Mississippi College
20)   IIAC runnerup (Buena Vista / Loras)
21)   Cal Lutheran
22)   UW - Platteville
23)   Occidental
24)    Elmhurst
25)    Wheaton

I think you're missing the University of Chicago, if they lose to Wash U today, as a possibility.

[Greek Tragedy]

I think you're missing the University of Chicago, if they lose to Wash U today, as a possibility.

I don't think so.  They would have 8 in-region losses.  Why does Brandeis and Rochester have better shots than Wash. U?  Also, I would think Aurora is a lock for a Pool B bid, opening up another slot in Pool C.

Midwest Region
1. Augustana  20-5  19-5 .575 .555 (CCIW):  Def. Elmhurst 69-68 OT in CCIW semis; plays Illinois Wesleyan in CCIW final on Sat.
2. Washington U.  19-5  16-4 .647 .565 (UAA):  Plays at Chicago on Sat.
3. Lawrence  20-2  18-2 .555 .515 (MWC):  Def St. Norbert 59-58 in MWC semis; plays Carroll in MWC final on Sat.
4. Wheaton (Ill.)  19-6  15-6 .577 .549 (CCIW):  LOST Illinois Wesleyan 81-78 in CCIW semis at Augustana.
5. Chicago  17-7  16-7 .605 .568 (UAA):  Plays Washington U. on Sat.
6. Elmhurst  18-7  17-7 .505 .537 (CCIW):  LOST at Augustana 69-68 OT in CCIW semis.
7. Aurora  20-5  18-5 .465 .496 (NathCon):  Def. Benedictine 96-75 in NathCon quarters; def. MSOE 89-64 in NathCon semis; plays Lakeland in NathCon final on Sun.
8. Webster  19-5  17-5 .492 .481 (SLIAC): Def. Westminster (Mo.) 62-40; LOST to Maryville (Mo.) 76-73 in SLIAC semis.

[jagluski]

I think you're missing the University of Chicago, if they lose to Wash U today, as a possibility.

I don't think so.  They would have 8 in-region losses.  Why does Brandeis and Rochester have better shots than Wash. U?  Also, I would think Aurora is a lock for a Pool B bid, opening up another slot in Pool C.

Midwest Region
1. Augustana  20-5  19-5 .575 .555 (CCIW):  Def. Elmhurst 69-68 OT in CCIW semis; plays Illinois Wesleyan in CCIW final on Sat.
2. Washington U.  19-5  16-4 .647 .565 (UAA):  Plays at Chicago on Sat.
3. Lawrence  20-2  18-2 .555 .515 (MWC):  Def St. Norbert 59-58 in MWC semis; plays Carroll in MWC final on Sat.
4. Wheaton (Ill.)  19-6  15-6 .577 .549 (CCIW):  LOST Illinois Wesleyan 81-78 in CCIW semis at Augustana.
5. Chicago  17-7  16-7 .605 .568 (UAA):  Plays Washington U. on Sat.
6. Elmhurst  18-7  17-7 .505 .537 (CCIW):  LOST at Augustana 69-68 OT in CCIW semis.
7. Aurora  20-5  18-5 .465 .496 (NathCon):  Def. Benedictine 96-75 in NathCon quarters; def. MSOE 89-64 in NathCon semis; plays Lakeland in NathCon final on Sun.
8. Webster  19-5  17-5 .492 .481 (SLIAC): Def. Westminster (Mo.) 62-40; LOST to Maryville (Mo.) 76-73 in SLIAC semis.

I wasn't saying it was likely, but I think they would have to be considered.

And he said that the Pool C teams were in no order...I think he put the locks above the teams that may get a Pool A.  I think Wash U would be a Pool C before Brandeis and Rochester.