Pool C

KnightSlappy · January 29, 2010, 04:37:01 PM

Quote from: magicman on January 29, 2010, 04:27:06 PM
KnightSlappy,

Medaille was 5th in the East in your previous rankings with a 16-1 regional record and RPI of .5927. They win the only game they've played since then, are now 17-1 in Region and they fall off the list? How did Nazareth who was in 7th place previously with an RPI of .5897 lose their only game since then and move ahead of Medaille? Can that be right? Just asking because it seems odd.

I have 17-1 Medaille as #9 in the East now with an RPI of .5847. They took a hit to their OWP by playing 2-15 Hilbert. Because they already had a good WP, it couldn't go up that much by winning, so the 2-13 they took into their OWP from Hilbert hurt their RPI more than the win helped it.

Similar thing happened to Calvin from beating Alma (0-15) on wednesday. They only dropped one spot in the GL, but they went from the #18 RPI in the nation to #43, so their Pool C chances are affected.

Nazareth, on the other hand, lost to St. John Fisher (15-3). So even though they lost, their RPI wasn't hurt too badly becuase their OWP was boosted.

magicman · January 29, 2010, 05:28:31 PM

Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 29, 2010, 04:37:01 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 29, 2010, 04:27:06 PM
KnightSlappy,

Medaille was 5th in the East in your previous rankings with a 16-1 regional record and RPI of .5927. They win the only game they've played since then, are now 17-1 in Region and they fall off the list? How did Nazareth who was in 7th place previously with an RPI of .5897 lose their only game since then and move ahead of Medaille? Can that be right? Just asking because it seems odd.

I have 17-1 Medaille as #9 in the East now with an RPI of .5847. They took a hit to their OWP by playing 2-15 Hilbert. Because they already had a good WP, it couldn't go up that much by winning, so the 2-13 they took into their OWP from Hilbert hurt their RPI more than the win helped it.

Similar thing happened to Calvin from beating Alma (0-15) on wednesday. They only dropped one spot in the GL, but they went from the #18 RPI in the nation to #43, so their Pool C chances are affected.

Nazareth, on the other hand, lost to St. John Fisher (15-3). So even though they lost, their RPI wasn't hurt too badly becuase their OWP was boosted.

KS,

Thanks. I knew that Hilbert game wouldn't help much but thought the loss by Naz, even a good loss, wouldn't push them ahead of Medaille. After all a W is usually better than an L.

Mr. Ypsi · January 29, 2010, 05:38:12 PM

Still is - imagine if Naz had beaten SJF!

Or Medaille had lost to Hilbert!

scout · January 29, 2010, 07:29:29 PM

Quote from: magicman on January 29, 2010, 05:28:31 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 29, 2010, 04:37:01 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 29, 2010, 04:27:06 PM
KnightSlappy,

Medaille was 5th in the East in your previous rankings with a 16-1 regional record and RPI of .5927. They win the only game they've played since then, are now 17-1 in Region and they fall off the list? How did Nazareth who was in 7th place previously with an RPI of .5897 lose their only game since then and move ahead of Medaille? Can that be right? Just asking because it seems odd.

I have 17-1 Medaille as #9 in the East now with an RPI of .5847. They took a hit to their OWP by playing 2-15 Hilbert. Because they already had a good WP, it couldn't go up that much by winning, so the 2-13 they took into their OWP from Hilbert hurt their RPI more than the win helped it.

Similar thing happened to Calvin from beating Alma (0-15) on wednesday. They only dropped one spot in the GL, but they went from the #18 RPI in the nation to #43, so their Pool C chances are affected.

Nazareth, on the other hand, lost to St. John Fisher (15-3). So even though they lost, their RPI wasn't hurt too badly becuase their OWP was boosted.

KS,

Thanks. I knew that Hilbert game wouldn't help much but thought the loss by Naz, even a good loss, wouldn't push them ahead of Medaille. After all a W is usually better than an L.

I'm assuming a similar case happened to Gordon in the Northeast. Once they started to play the other teams in TCCC play, the SOS and OWP probably began to drop significantly... hurting their numbers despite owning a 14-3 record.

with age came? · January 30, 2010, 01:10:18 AM

Novice to this board - so no laughter please!! Is this regional ranking d3 official or a accurate model based on criteria used by selection people? Also wondered about the total lack of a Liberty League team in the top eight of the east. Some decent league wins Clarkson on the road over U of R and beating Cortland at home. Skidmore over NYU. If memory serves Hobart over SJF early in the season too. Also some "good losses" (sounds like an oxymoron to me) to Middlebury and MIT by league members RPI & Skidmore. Know there are some real "bad losses" Clarkson to Elmira etc. but I thought that at least one team would crack the region top 8. Curious only...knowledge is power!!!

KnightSlappy · January 30, 2010, 09:25:02 AM

Quote from: with age came? on January 30, 2010, 01:10:18 AM
Novice to this board - so no laughter please!! Is this regional ranking d3 official or a accurate model based on criteria used by selection people? Also wondered about the total lack of a Liberty League team in the top eight of the east. Some decent league wins Clarkson on the road over U of R and beating Cortland at home. Skidmore over NYU. If memory serves Hobart over SJF early in the season too. Also some "good losses" (sounds like an oxymoron to me) to Middlebury and MIT by league members RPI & Skidmore. Know there are some real "bad losses" Clarkson to Elmira etc. but I thought that at least one team would crack the region top 8. Curious only...knowledge is power!!!

The rankings that I do are not official, the first real NCAA rankings will come out on the 3rd.

These rankings are based solely on RPI which uses two of the NCAA's Primary criteria in the formula. Winning Percentage, and Strength of Schedule.

In the past, RPI has been a reasonable (but not exact) indicator of the NCAA's official rankings.

As for the LL, there's just not any team with a good enough record to crack the rankings. Clarkson's got the best win percentage, at 0.6154 (very ho-hum), and they've had a pretty easy schedule (0.444), so their RPI comes out pretty low still (0.4869).

I have the top LL team as Skidmore (8-6). Their RPI of 0.5455 puts them #12 in the East Region.

Here's the Liberty League Data:

REG Rank Team     WP     OWP     OOWP     RPI   NAT   CON Pool     REG   OVR   CONF
E   12   Skidmore     .5714   .5645   .4815   .5455   107   1   A         8-6   10-6   LL
E   14   Union     .5385   .5650   .4835   .5380   123   2   C   083   7-6   7-8    LL
E   16   RPI     .6000   .5072   .4831   .5244   153   3   C   109   6-4   11-4   LL
E   17   Hamilton     .5000   .5280   .4998   .5139   177   4   C   132   6-6   7-8    LL
E   21   Hobart     .5625   .4545   .5390   .5027   210   5   C   163   9-7   9-7    LL
E   27   Clarkson     .6154   .4012   .5299   .4869   250   6   C   198   8-5   9-6    LL
E   28   St. Lawrence .4667   .4564   .5247   .4760   265   7   C   213   7-8   7-9    LL
E   31   Vassar     .0714   .5879   .4800   .4318   331   8   C   273   1-13 2-14   LL

KnightSlappy · January 31, 2010, 10:15:00 PM

As always, rankings based on in-region RPI.

Should be correct through Sunday's games, but let me know if you see an error:

REG   #   WP     OWP    OOWP    SOS    RPI     NAT   Pool        REG     OVR   CONF    Team

NE   01   0.929   0.521   0.545   0.529   0.6290   007   A   C     13-1    15-2   NESCAC   Colby
NE   02   0.867   0.537   0.507   0.527   0.6122   016   C   007    13-2    17-2   NESCAC   Middlebury
NE   03   0.824   0.521   0.573   0.538   0.6093   018   C   009    14-3    14-3   UAA     Brandeis
NE   04   1.000   0.446   0.539   0.477   0.6080   020   C   010    17-0    19-1   NESCAC   Williams
NE   05   0.944   0.479   0.528   0.496   0.6078   021   A   C     17-1    18-2   NEWMAC   MIT
NE   06   0.684   0.590   0.509   0.563   0.5936   032   A   C     13-6    13-6   LEC     Mass-Dartmouth
NE   07   0.800   0.502   0.536   0.513   0.5851   044   A   C-2    12-3    13-5   MASCAC   Bridgewater State
NE   08   0.684   0.566   0.510   0.548   0.5818   051   C   029    13-6    13-6   LEC     Eastern Connecticut
NE   09   0.750   0.513   0.525   0.517   0.5752   060   C   034    12-4    13-4   LEC     Western Connecticut
NE   10   0.722   0.534   0.511   0.526   0.5752   061   C   035    13-5    14-5   NEWMAC   Worcester Polytech
NE   11   0.688   0.550   0.491   0.531   0.5698   069   A          11-5    12-6   GNAC    Emerson
NE   12   0.824   0.470   0.511   0.484   0.5689   072   C   040    14-3    14-4   GNAC    Albertus Magnus
NE   13   0.824   0.468   0.511   0.482   0.5675   076   A          14-3    15-3   CCC     Gordon
NE   14   0.500   0.628   0.506   0.587   0.5656   079   C   045     8-8   10-10   NESCAC   Bates

E   001   0.778   0.567   0.525   0.553   0.6091   019   A   C     14-4    15-4   E8    Stevens
E   002   0.789   0.548   0.540   0.545   0.6063   023   C   012    15-4    16-4   E8    St. John Fisher
E   003   0.643   0.607   0.539   0.585   0.5992   026   C   014     9-5    13-5   UAA     Rochester
E   004   0.733   0.551   0.517   0.540   0.5881   039   A   C-2    11-4    13-5   SUNYAC   Brockport State
E   005   0.706   0.542   0.549   0.544   0.5847   045   C   024    12-5    13-5   UAA     New York University
E   006   0.667   0.564   0.540   0.556   0.5835   046   C   025    12-6    13-7   E8    Nazareth
E   007   0.947   0.438   0.503   0.460   0.5816   052   A          18-1    19-1   AMCC    Medaille
E   008   0.667   0.556   0.526   0.546   0.5759   057   C   032    10-5    13-6   E8    Ithaca

A   001   0.952   0.504   0.533   0.514   0.6234   010   A   C     20-1    20-1   NJAC    William Paterson
A   002   0.700   0.587   0.537   0.571   0.6030   024   C   013    14-6    15-6   NJAC    Richard Stockton
A   003   0.789   0.550   0.508   0.536   0.5991   027   A   C     15-4    16-4   LAND    Merchant Marine
A   004   0.789   0.511   0.542   0.522   0.5887   038   C   020    15-4    15-5   NJAC    Ramapo
A   005   0.722   0.534   0.510   0.526   0.5753   059   A          13-5    16-5   CUNYAC   York (N.Y.)
A   006   0.688   0.539   0.525   0.534   0.5725   065   C   037    11-5    15-6   NJAC    Rutgers-Newark
A   007   0.625   0.562   0.528   0.550   0.5691   070   C   039    10-6    14-6   NJAC    Rowan
A   008   0.737   0.508   0.515   0.510   0.5669   077   C   043    14-5    15-5   CUNYAC   Baruch

MA   01   0.882   0.600   0.541   0.580   0.6559   003   A   C     15-2    16-2   MACC    Albright
MA   02   0.813   0.571   0.529   0.557   0.6211   011   C   003    13-3    16-3   MACC    Lycoming
MA   03   0.733   0.597   0.540   0.578   0.6166   014   C   005    11-4     ---   MACC    Alvernia
MA   04   0.722   0.601   0.526   0.576   0.6125   015   C   006    13-5    13-5   MACC    Elizabethtown
MA   05   0.714   0.588   0.536   0.570   0.6064   022   C   011    10-4    11-7   MACC    Messiah
MA   06   0.824   0.529   0.520   0.526   0.6006   025   A   C     14-3    16-3   CAC     St. Marys (Md.)
MA   07   0.588   0.632   0.499   0.588   0.5878   040   C   021    10-7    12-8   LAND    Susquehanna
MA   08   0.765   0.542   0.501   0.528   0.5875   041   C   022    13-4    15-4   CAC     York (Pa.)

S   001   0.882   0.563   0.516   0.547   0.6310   006   A   C     15-2    17-2   ODAC    Virginia Wesleyan
S   002   0.947   0.507   0.541   0.519   0.6258   008   C   002    18-1    18-1   ODAC    Guilford
S   003   0.846   0.511   0.528   0.516   0.5989   028   C   015    11-2    15-3   ODAC    Eastern Mennonite
S   004   0.882   0.504   0.500   0.502   0.5974   030   A   C     15-2    16-3   ASC     Texas-Dallas
S   005   0.692   0.590   0.514   0.565   0.5966   031   C   016     9-4    15-4   ODAC    Randolph-Macon
S   006   0.737   0.563   0.498   0.541   0.5899   035   A   C     14-5    14-5   SCAC    Austin
S   007   0.786   0.531   0.512   0.524   0.5898   036   B   001    11-3    16-4   GSAC    Maryville (Tenn.)
S   008   0.706   0.560   0.532   0.551   0.5894   037   C   019    12-5    13-5   UAA     Emory
S   009   0.800   0.498   0.509   0.502   0.5762   055   N/A        12-3    16-3   SCAC    Birmingham-Southern
S   010   0.722   0.526   0.496   0.516   0.5676   074   C   042    13-5    15-5   SCAC    DePauw
S   011   0.778   0.491   0.500   0.494   0.5648   080   C   046    14-4    14-5   ASC     Mary Hardin-Baylor

GL   01   0.800   0.548   0.499   0.532   0.5986   029   A   C      8-2    13-6   MIAA    Hope
GL   02   0.706   0.570   0.500   0.547   0.5868   042   A   C-2    12-5    13-5   OAC     John Carroll
GL   03   0.765   0.520   0.525   0.522   0.5827   049   C   027    13-4    14-5   OAC     Wilmington
GL   04   0.800   0.509   0.502   0.507   0.5799   053   C   030     8-2    12-7   MIAA    Calvin
GL   05   0.833   0.465   0.512   0.481   0.5689   071   A          15-3    15-4   NCAC    Wooster
GL   06   0.813   0.469   0.498   0.479   0.5624   083   C   048    13-3    13-4   AMCC    Penn State-Behrend
GL   07   0.737   0.468   0.506   0.480   0.5445   114   A          14-5    14-5   PrAC    Thomas More
GL   08   0.778   0.440   0.503   0.461   0.5402   119   C   079    14-4    14-5   PrAC    Bethany
GL   09   0.556   0.543   0.508   0.531   0.5374   124   C   084    10-8    11-8   OAC     Baldwin-Wallace

MW   01   0.867   0.599   0.546   0.581   0.6528   004   A   C     13-2    16-2   UAA     Washington U.
MW   02   0.846   0.600   0.553   0.584   0.6498   005   A   C     11-2    15-4   CCIW    Carthage
MW   03   0.778   0.579   0.532   0.563   0.6170   013   C   004    14-4    15-4   CCIW    Illinois Wesleyan
MW   04   0.938   0.435   0.526   0.465   0.5833   047   A   C-2    15-1    16-1   MWC     St. Norbert
MW   05   0.667   0.563   0.539   0.555   0.5829   048   C   026    12-6    13-6   CCIW    Wheaton (Ill.)
MW   06   0.882   0.457   0.493   0.469   0.5722   066   A          15-2    17-2   HCAC    Anderson
MW   07   0.737   0.516   0.495   0.509   0.5660   078   C   044    14-5    15-5   HCAC    Defiance
MW   08   0.667   0.511   0.558   0.527   0.5617   086   C   051    12-6    12-7   CCIW    Augustana
MW   09   0.923   0.401   0.500   0.434   0.5564   093   A          12-1    15-4   SLIAC    Westminster (Mo.)
MW   10   0.438   0.629   0.521   0.593   0.5541   096   C   059     7-9     9-9   UAA     Chicago
MW   11   0.571   0.554   0.516   0.541   0.5488   108   C   071     8-6    10-9   CCIW    North Central (Ill.)

W   001   0.895   0.612   0.560   0.595   0.6696   001   A   C     17-2    18-2   WIAC    UW-Stevens Point
W   002   0.842   0.639   0.550   0.610   0.6678   002   C   001    16-3    16-3   WIAC    UW-Whitewater
W   003   0.875   0.540   0.544   0.542   0.6250   009   A   C     14-2    17-2   MIAC    St. Thomas
W   004   0.882   0.524   0.546   0.532   0.6192   012   A   C     15-2    17-2   NWC     Whitworth
W   005   0.722   0.580   0.563   0.574   0.6109   017   C   008    13-5    14-6   WIAC    UW-La Crosse
W   006   0.600   0.603   0.560   0.588   0.5914   033   C   017     9-6    11-8   WIAC    UW-Platteville
W   007   0.706   0.566   0.524   0.552   0.5903   034   C   018    12-5    12-5   MIAC    Augsburg
W   008   0.750   0.529   0.536   0.531   0.5858   043   C   023    12-4    12-6   MIAC    Gustavus Adolphus
W   009   0.500   0.633   0.549   0.605   0.5788   054   C   031     7-7    10-9   WIAC    UW-Stout
W   010   0.800   0.488   0.519   0.498   0.5735   063   C   036     8-2    10-8   NWC     Linfield
W   011   0.938   0.419   0.512   0.450   0.5716   067   B   002    15-1    18-2   IND     Chapman
W   012   0.625   0.564   0.532   0.553   0.5712   068   C   038    10-6    11-7   MIAC    St. Johns

      Pool:   A   Top ranked team in Pool A eligible conference
         B   Pool B eligible team
         C   At large candidate
         N/A   Not eligible for postseason participation

      B or C #      Rank in Pool (C or B)

      A Status:   C   Pool A candidate, would rank within top 19 of Pool C
         C-2   2nd tier Pool A candidate, would rank 20-29 of Pool C
         Blank   Ranks outside of the top 29 of Pool C

      Updated:   1/31/2010


The first set of NCAA rankings come out on Wednesday.

Maybe it's just me that missed this, but in the handbook it says that a set of rankings will be release on Sunday Feb. 28. Does that mean that there won't be a secret ranking this year? Did we already know this?

Hugenerd · January 31, 2010, 10:22:59 PM

Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 31, 2010, 10:15:00 PM
Maybe it's just me that missed this, but in the handbook it says that a set of rankings will be release on Sunday Feb. 28. Does that mean that there won't be a secret ranking this year? Did we already know this?

They have been talking about this quite often on Hoopsville this year.

magicman · January 31, 2010, 10:35:31 PM

KnightSlappy,

I don't know if this will affect the Empire 8 teams that are ranked in the East region but I discovered that RIT had a game against Roberts Wesleyan on January 16th, and listed as a 99-76 RIT win on the D3Hoops team page. They actually lost that game 99-76 and that would make their won-loss record 8-10 instead of 9-9. The game is not an in-region result, so it might not matter.

KnightSlappy · February 01, 2010, 09:40:31 AM

Quote from: magicman on January 31, 2010, 10:35:31 PM
KnightSlappy,

I don't know if this will affect the Empire 8 teams that are ranked in the East region but I discovered that RIT had a game against Roberts Wesleyan on January 16th, and listed as a 99-76 RIT win on the D3Hoops team page. They actually lost that game 99-76 and that would make their won-loss record 8-10 instead of 9-9. The game is not an in-region result, so it might not matter.

If it's out of region, it won't affect any of the calculated numbers so it won't change anything on my end. Thanks for the heads-up though.

with age came? · February 02, 2010, 11:59:25 PM

In my thirst for knowledge I show my ignorance. I assume all league games are in region but I also thought that any game within a certain distance (200 or 250 miles perhaps) would count as in region as say RPI traveling to Middlebury (even though that team they are playing would be from the Northeast region). Again knowledge is power.

Ralph Turner · February 03, 2010, 12:02:53 AM

200 miles by the official NCAA mileage tables is the criterion.

https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/TES/exec/miles

173 miles and therefore in-region.

Hugenerd · February 03, 2010, 10:23:09 AM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2010, 12:02:53 AM
200 miles by the official NCAA mileage tables is the criterion.

https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/TES/exec/miles

173 miles and therefore in-region.

Yeah, the RPI/MIT game was brought up earlier on this board. That is in-region for both teams as well.

Greek Tragedy · February 03, 2010, 06:46:46 PM

Teams in BOLD lead their respective conferences-also known as Pool A - Automatic Qualifiers

Atlantic Region
1. William Paterson 19-1 20-1 (NJAC)
2. Merchant Marine 15-4 16-4 (LAND)-tied with Catholic
3. Ramapo 14-4 15-5 (NJAC)
4. York (N.Y.) 13-5 16-5 (CUNYAC)
5. Richard Stockton 14-5 14-6 (NJAC)

East Region
1. St. John Fisher 15-4 16-4 (Empire 8)
2. Stevens 15-4 15-4 (Empire 8)
3. New York University 12-5 13-5 (UAA)
4. Medaille 18-1 19-1(AMCC)
5. Rochester 9-5 13-5 (UAA)
6. Nazareth 12-6 13-7 (Empire 8)

Great Lakes Region
1. Wooster 15-3 15-4 (NCAC)
2. Wilmington (Ohio) 13-4 14-5 (OAC)-tied with John Carroll
3. Hope 8-2 13-6 (MIAA)
4. Calvin 8-2 12-7 (MIAA)
5. Penn State-Behrend 13-3 13-4 (AMCC)
6. Thomas More 14-5 14-5 (PrAC)

Middle Atlantic Region
1. Albright 14-1 16-2 (MAC-Commonwealth)
2. Lycoming 12-3 16-3 (MAC-Commonwealth)
3. Cabrini 16-2 16-2 (CSAC)
4. Franklin and Marshall 16-3 16-3 (Centennial)
5. St. Mary's (Md.) 13-3 16-3 (CAC)
6. Elizabethtown 13-5 13-5 (MAC-Commonwealth)
7. York (Pa.) 14-4 15-4 (CAC)
8. Alvernia 11-4 13-6 (MAC-Commonwealth)
9. Catholic 13-4 15-5 (LAND)-tied with Merchant Marine

Midwest Region
1. Washington U. 13-2 16-2 (UAA)
2. Carthage 11-2 15-4 (CCIW)
3. St. Norbert 15-1 16-1 (MWC)
4. Illinois Wesleyan 14-4 15-4 (CCIW)
5. Anderson 15-2 17-2 (HCAC)
6. Wheaton (Ill.) 12-6 13-6 (CCIW)
7. Augustana 12-6 12-7 (CCIW)
8. Westminster (Mo.) 12-1 15-4 (SLIAC)

Northeast Region
1. Williams 17-0 19-1(NESCAC)-tied with Colby
2. MIT 17-1 18-2 (NEWMAC)
3. Colby 13-1 15-2 (NESCAC)-tied with Williams
4. Middlebury 13-2 17-2 (NESCAC)
5. Brandeis 14-3 14-3 (UAA)
6. Bridgewater State 12-3 13-5 (MASCAC)
7. Gordon 14-3 15-3 (CCC)
8. Western Connecticut 12-4 13-4 (LEC)
9. Mass-Dartmouth 13-6 13-6 (LEC)
10. Rhode Island College 13-6 13-6 (LEC)
11. Eastern Connecticut 13-6 13-6 (LEC)

South Region
1. Guilford 18-1 18-1 (ODAC)
2. Virginia Wesleyan 15-2 17-2 (ODAC)
3. Texas-Dallas 15-2 16-3 (ASC-East)
4. Eastern Mennonite 11-2 15-3 (ODAC)
5. Maryville (Tenn.)11-3 16-4 (GSAC) Pool B
6. Austin 14-5 14-5 (SCAC-West)
7. Mary Hardin-Baylor 14-4 14-5 (ASC-West)
8. Mississippi College 11-3 15-3 (ASC-East)

West Region
1. UW-Whitewater 16-3 16-3 (WIAC)
2. UW-Stevens Point 17-2 18-2 (WIAC)
3. St. Thomas 14-2 17-2 (MIAC)
4. Whitworth 15-2 17-2 (NWC)
5. UW-La Crosse 13-5 14-6 (WIAC)
6. Gustavus Adolphus 12-4 12-6 (MIAC)
7. Chapman 15-1 18-2 (IND) Pool B
8. Central 14-2 16-4 (IIAC)
9. Augsburg 12-5 13-5 (MIAC)

[EDIT] Respectfully proofread.. Pool B bids placed in italics!
ASC-West#1 seed hosts the men's tourney.
SCAC tourney is at Millsaps.

Great Job! +1!

gordonmann · February 03, 2010, 06:49:30 PM

Nicely done.

One small addition: Like Maryville (Tenn.), Chapman cannot get an A. I know you know that, but it's for others using your handiwork.