Pool C

Titan Q · February 03, 2010, 07:02:39 PM

Nice work, Tom.

So as of today, the "first to the table"...

Ramapo (Atlantic)
Stevens (East)
Hope (Great Lakes)
Lycoming (Mid-Atlantic)
Illinois Wesleyan (Midwest)
Middlebury (Northeast)
Virginia Wesleyan (South)
UW-Stevens Point (West)

Greek Tragedy · February 03, 2010, 07:12:30 PM

Well, both Point and Whitewater can't have Pool A bids, so the "loser" would get the Pool C...right now, Point, since Whitewater has the tie-breaker.

Titan Q · February 03, 2010, 07:13:55 PM

Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 03, 2010, 07:12:30 PM
Well, both Point and Whitewater can't have Pool A bids, so the "loser" would get the Pool C...right now, Point, since Whitewater has the tie-breaker.

Fixed (above)!

Mr. Ypsi · February 03, 2010, 07:27:22 PM

[Thanks to Titan Q for catching this feat.]

The IWU women's team has defeated every other team ranked in their region! I'm wondering if this is completely unprecedented, men or women?

I would think it is vanishingly rare for a team to have even played all the other ranked teams, much less beaten them all. Kudos to Coach Mia Smith for what has to be one of the toughest schedules ever assembled!

Can anyone recall a team (men or women) ever before beating ALL the other teams ranked in their region?

John Gleich · February 03, 2010, 07:51:35 PM

Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on February 03, 2010, 07:12:30 PM
Well, both Point and Whitewater can't have Pool A bids, so the "loser" would get the Pool C...right now, Point, since Whitewater has the tie-breaker.

Technically Point has a 1/2 game lead, so the tie breaker doesn't apply... but if both teams win out, you are correct.

magicman · February 03, 2010, 11:27:29 PM

KnightSlappy, or Ralph, or Pat,
Maybe one of you guys would know the answer to this. KS shows Stevens Tech with a 14-4 regional record and overall record of 15-4, which I believe is correct. Babson is the only school that is listed as being out of region on Stevens D3Hoops team page and using the official NCAA mileage chart that Ralph provided, the distance between those 2 schools is 205 miles which would make it an out of region contest. The NCAA Regional Rankings that came out on Wednesday has Stevens with a 15-4 record for both the East Region and overall. That can't be right can it? Or did Hoboken N.J. get 6 miles closer to Babson Park, Mass. in the past few months.

Ralph Turner · February 03, 2010, 11:35:10 PM

Quote from: magicman on February 03, 2010, 11:27:29 PM
KnightSlappy, or Ralph, or Pat,
Maybe one of you guys would know the answer to this. KS shows Stevens Tech with a 14-4 regional record and overall record of 15-4, which I believe is correct. Babson is the only school that is listed as being out of region on Stevens D3Hoops team page and using the official NCAA mileage chart that Ralph provided, the distance between those 2 schools is 205 miles which would make it an out of region contest. The NCAA Regional Rankings that came out on Wednesday has Stevens with a 15-4 record for both the East Region and overall. That can't be right can it? Or did Pittsford, N.Y. get 6 miles closer to Babson Park, Mass. in the past few months.

Hoboken NJ and Babson Park MA are both in Administrative Region #1. Thus it is an in-region game.

Admin Region #1 is MD, DC, DE, NJ, CT, RI, MA, NH, VT and ME.

Admin Region #2 is NY and PA.

Admin Region #3 is VA, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, MS, LA, AR, TN, KY, IN, MI, OH and WV.

Admin Region #4 is everything to the West.

Thanks for asking.

magicman · February 04, 2010, 12:38:45 AM

Ralph,
Thanks for your reply. I knew they were in New Jersey. I copied the wrong city down when I looked up where Stevens was located and wasn't even thinking. I have since made the correction in my post. I thought because Stevens was in the East Region then their administrative region was Region 2. So Stevens is one of those odd schools that in addition to being the only school is the East Region that's not in New York, it's also the only school in the East Region that has a different administative region. I hope KnightSlappy is reading this post and the previous one, so he can make the correction in his rankings. Thanks again Ralph for your help.

Ralph Turner · February 04, 2010, 12:57:21 AM

Quote from: magicman on February 04, 2010, 12:38:45 AM
Ralph,
Thanks for your reply. I knew they were in New Jersey. I copied the wrong city down when I looked up where Stevens was located and wasn't even thinking. I have since made the correction in my post. I thought because Stevens was in the East Region then their administrative region was Region 2. So Stevens is one of those odd schools that in addition to being the only school is the East Region that's not in New York, it's also the only school in the East Region that has a different administative region. I hope KnightSlappy is reading this post and the previous one, so he can make the correction in his rankings. Thanks again Ralph for your help.

Actually, it is the best of all worlds for the Ducks.

They get the tiny East Evaluation Region with the E8, but they also get to pick up some good Admin Region #1 schools. They also get the 200-mile radius which goes a long way into Pennasylvania.

magicman · February 04, 2010, 01:12:21 AM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2010, 12:57:21 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 04, 2010, 12:38:45 AM
Ralph,
Thanks for your reply. I knew they were in New Jersey. I copied the wrong city down when I looked up where Stevens was located and wasn't even thinking. I have since made the correction in my post. I thought because Stevens was in the East Region then their administrative region was Region 2. So Stevens is one of those odd schools that in addition to being the only school is the East Region that's not in New York, it's also the only school in the East Region that has a different administative region. I hope KnightSlappy is reading this post and the previous one, so he can make the correction in his rankings. Thanks again Ralph for your help.
Actually, it is the best of all worlds for the Ducks.

They get the tiny East Evaluation Region with the E8, but they also get to pick up some good Admin Region #1 schools. They also get the 200-mile radius which goes a long way into Pennasylvania.

The best of all worlds for sure! Unless they travel a good distance for a holiday tournament, every game they play is a regional game. They probably cover more teams than anyone this side of the Mississippi.

magicman · February 04, 2010, 01:34:25 AM

I see the Stevens team page has been corrected already and Babson is listed as a regional game. That was quick.

ronk · February 04, 2010, 02:10:22 AM

Quote from: magicman on February 04, 2010, 01:12:21 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2010, 12:57:21 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 04, 2010, 12:38:45 AM

The best of all worlds for sure! Unless they travel a good distance for a holiday tournament, every game they play is a regional game. They probably cover more teams than anyone this side of the Mississippi.

Strictly speaking, the distance they travel for a holiday tournament is irrelevant; what matters is the distance between the opponents' campuses(not the site of the game), or the evaluation/admin regions.

magicman · February 04, 2010, 03:12:53 AM

ronk,
I wasn't referring to Stevens traveling to the Midwest and playing a team from their backyard, region, administrative region or someone within 200 miles of their campus. I thought we pretty much covered that in the previous posts on this topic. My point and Ralph's best of all worlds post, was that just about anyone they play, because they're a Jersey team in a New York region with a Mid-Atlantic, New England administrative region, that also stretches deep into Pennslyvania, is going to be a regional game. As evidenced by the fact that every one of the 26 or 27 games they will play, prior to any post-season matchups, are all regional contests. There's probably a few other schools that also have that distinction but not sure if any of them would encompass an area with as many schools on their regional list as Stevens has.

KnightSlappy · February 04, 2010, 09:41:49 AM

A little bit of a mixed bag for my rankings yesterday. I wasn't quite happy with the deviation from the NCAA's so I spent most of the night "in the basement" working on my calculations. I made a few tweaks to try to line up with the regional rankings better. I tweaked the way OWP and OOWP is calculate to match the numbers reported by the committee, and I also added in an RPI50 column. I'm now using this (a 50-50 WP to SOS ratio) to calculate rank and Pool C position. The traditional RPI is still calculated for your enjoyment.

Here's how it looks with Wednesday's games (scores reported at about midnight eastern) added in:

REG   #   WP     OWP    OOWP    SOS    RPI50   RPI    NAT   Pool        REG     OVR   CONF    Team

NE   01   1.000   0.455   0.540   0.483   0.742   0.613   001   A   C     17-0    19-1   NESCAC   Williams
NE   02   0.947   0.484   0.528   0.499   0.723   0.611   006   A   C     18-1    19-2   NEWMAC   MIT
NE   03   0.933   0.481   0.555   0.506   0.720   0.613   009   C   002    14-1    16-2   NESCAC   Colby
NE   04   0.867   0.534   0.508   0.525   0.696   0.611   017   C   004    13-2    17-2   NESCAC   Middlebury
NE   05   0.824   0.529   0.569   0.542   0.683   0.613   020   C   006    14-3    14-3   UAA     Brandeis
NE   06   0.813   0.510   0.534   0.518   0.665   0.591   031   A   C     13-3    14-5   MASCAC   Bridgewater State
NE   07   0.833   0.490   0.508   0.496   0.665   0.581   032   A   C     15-3    15-4   GNAC    Albertus Magnus
NE   08   0.833   0.463   0.506   0.477   0.655   0.566   035   A   C     15-3    16-3   CCC     Gordon
NE   09   0.765   0.487   0.525   0.499   0.632   0.566   057   A   C-2    13-4    14-4   LEC     Western Connecticut
NE   10   0.700   0.586   0.515   0.562   0.631   0.597   058   C   023    14-6    14-6   LEC     Mass-Dartmouth
NE   11   0.722   0.538   0.509   0.529   0.625   0.577   065   C   029    13-5    14-5   NEWMAC   Worcester Polytech
NE   12   0.750   0.467   0.518   0.484   0.617   0.550   074   A          12-4    13-4   NAC     Thomas
NE   13   0.722   0.505   0.520   0.510   0.616   0.563   076   C   037    13-5    14-5   GNAC    St. Josephs (Maine)
NE   14   0.706   0.536   0.493   0.522   0.614   0.568   079   C   040    12-5    13-6   GNAC    Emerson

E   001   0.950   0.455   0.503   0.471   0.711   0.591   011   A   C     19-1    20-1   AMCC    Medaille
E   002   0.789   0.552   0.537   0.547   0.668   0.608   028   A   C     15-4    16-4   E8    St. John Fisher
E   003   0.789   0.551   0.527   0.543   0.666   0.605   030   C   008    15-4    15-4   E8    Stevens
E   004   0.750   0.531   0.519   0.527   0.638   0.583   048   A   C     12-4    14-5   SUNYAC   Brockport State
E   005   0.706   0.552   0.551   0.551   0.629   0.590   061   C   026    12-5    13-5   UAA     New York University
E   006   0.722   0.530   0.515   0.525   0.624   0.575   068   C   032    13-5    14-5   SUNYAC   Oneonta State
E   007   0.643   0.603   0.541   0.582   0.612   0.597   081   C   042     9-5    13-5   UAA     Rochester
E   008   0.667   0.550   0.538   0.546   0.606   0.576   085   C   046    12-6    13-7   E8    Nazareth
E   009   0.667   0.548   0.526   0.541   0.604   0.572   089   C   050    10-5    13-6   E8    Ithaca

A   001   0.955   0.521   0.527   0.523   0.739   0.631   002   A   C     21-1    21-1   NJAC    William Paterson
A   002   0.789   0.550   0.509   0.536   0.663   0.599   033   A   C     15-4    16-4   LAND    Merchant Marine
A   003   0.750   0.534   0.533   0.534   0.642   0.588   044   C   014    15-5    15-6   NJAC    Ramapo
A   004   0.700   0.585   0.536   0.568   0.634   0.601   053   C   019    14-6    15-6   NJAC    Richard Stockton
A   005   0.737   0.524   0.505   0.518   0.627   0.573   063   A   C-2    14-5    17-5   CUNYAC   York (N.Y.)
A   006   0.765   0.468   0.491   0.476   0.620   0.548   070   A          13-4    14-4   SKY     St. Josephs (L.I.)
A   007   0.722   0.524   0.484   0.511   0.616   0.564   075   C   036    13-5    13-5   SKY     SUNY-Old Westbury
A   008   0.765   0.450   0.495   0.465   0.615   0.540   077   C   038    13-4    13-4   SKY     SUNY-Maritime

MA   01   0.833   0.591   0.540   0.574   0.704   0.639   013   A   C     15-3    16-3   MACC    Albright
MA   02   0.850   0.487   0.516   0.497   0.673   0.585   023   A   C     17-3    17-3   CC    Franklin and Marshall
MA   03   0.895   0.430   0.492   0.451   0.673   0.562   024   A   C     17-2    17-2   CSAC    Cabrini
MA   04   0.833   0.509   0.519   0.512   0.673   0.593   025   A   C     15-3    17-3   CAC     St. Marys (Md.)
MA   05   0.733   0.596   0.535   0.576   0.655   0.615   036   C   009    11-4    12-7   MACC    Messiah
MA   06   0.765   0.551   0.530   0.544   0.654   0.599   037   C   010    13-4    16-4   MACC    Lycoming
MA   07   0.778   0.541   0.502   0.528   0.653   0.591   038   C   011    14-4    16-4   CAC     York (Pa.)
MA   08   0.778   0.532   0.515   0.526   0.652   0.589   039   A   C     14-4    15-5   MACF    DeSales
MA   09   0.750   0.562   0.538   0.554   0.652   0.603   040   C   012    12-4     ---   MACC    Alvernia
MA   10   0.778   0.484   0.521   0.496   0.637   0.567   050   C   016    14-4    15-5   LAND    Catholic
MA   11   0.684   0.602   0.522   0.575   0.630   0.602   059   C   024    13-6    13-6   MACC    Elizabethtown
MA   12   0.733   0.531   0.495   0.519   0.626   0.572   064   C   028    11-4    13-6   CAC     Wesley

S   001   0.950   0.511   0.548   0.523   0.737   0.630   003   A   C     19-1    19-1   ODAC    Guilford
S   002   0.889   0.563   0.520   0.549   0.719   0.634   010   C   003    16-2    18-2   ODAC    Virginia Wesleyan
S   003   0.882   0.505   0.496   0.502   0.692   0.597   018   A   C     15-2    16-3   ASC     Texas-Dallas
S   004   0.857   0.504   0.530   0.512   0.685   0.599   019   C   005    12-2    16-3   ODAC    Eastern Mennonite
S   005   0.786   0.534   0.509   0.526   0.656   0.591   034   B   002    11-3    16-4   GSAC    Maryville (Tenn.)
S   006   0.800   0.485   0.510   0.493   0.647   0.570   041   N/A        12-3    16-3   SCAC    Birmingham-Southern
S   007   0.750   0.548   0.501   0.532   0.641   0.587   046   A   C     15-5    15-5   SCAC    Austin
S   008   0.778   0.490   0.499   0.493   0.635   0.564   051   C   017    14-4    14-5   ASC     Mary Hardin-Baylor
S   009   0.786   0.480   0.491   0.483   0.635   0.559   052   C   018    11-3    15-3   ASC     Mississippi College
S   010   0.706   0.564   0.531   0.553   0.629   0.591   060   C   025    12-5    13-5   UAA     Emory
S   011   0.714   0.537   0.527   0.533   0.624   0.579   067   C   031    10-4    16-4   ODAC    Randolph-Macon

GL   01   0.842   0.488   0.510   0.496   0.669   0.582   027   A   C     16-3    16-4   NCAC    Wooster
GL   02   0.818   0.521   0.508   0.517   0.668   0.592   029   A   C      9-2    14-6   MIAA    Hope
GL   03   0.778   0.503   0.530   0.512   0.645   0.578   042   A   C     14-4    15-5   OAC     Wilmington
GL   04   0.727   0.564   0.488   0.538   0.633   0.586   056   C   022     8-3    12-8   MIAA    Calvin
GL   05   0.765   0.491   0.495   0.492   0.629   0.560   062   C   027    13-4    13-5   AMCC    Penn State-Behrend
GL   06   0.706   0.563   0.509   0.545   0.625   0.585   066   C   030    12-5    14-5   OAC     John Carroll
GL   07   0.750   0.478   0.505   0.487   0.618   0.553   073   A          15-5    15-5   PrAC    Thomas More
GL   08   0.737   0.440   0.500   0.460   0.598   0.529   094   C   055    14-5    14-6   PrAC    Bethany
GL   09   0.688   0.506   0.495   0.503   0.595   0.549   096   C   057    11-5    15-5   NCAC    Wittenberg

MW   01   0.867   0.607   0.544   0.586   0.726   0.656   005   A   C     13-2    16-2   UAA     Washington U.
MW   02   0.857   0.608   0.551   0.589   0.723   0.656   007   A   C     12-2    16-4   CCIW    Carthage
MW   03   0.941   0.427   0.520   0.458   0.700   0.579   015   A   C     16-1    17-1   MWC     St. Norbert
MW   04   0.789   0.589   0.537   0.572   0.681   0.626   021   C   007    15-4    16-4   CCIW    Illinois Wesleyan
MW   05   0.889   0.433   0.500   0.455   0.672   0.564   026   A   C     16-2    18-2   HCAC    Anderson
MW   06   0.857   0.386   0.490   0.421   0.639   0.530   047   A   C     12-2    15-5   SLIAC    Westminster (Mo.)
MW   07   0.750   0.529   0.492   0.516   0.633   0.575   055   C   021    15-5    16-5   HCAC    Defiance
MW   08   0.684   0.513   0.554   0.527   0.605   0.566   088   C   049    13-6    13-7   CCIW    Augustana
MW   09   0.632   0.586   0.535   0.569   0.600   0.585   092   C   053    12-7    13-7   CCIW    Wheaton (Ill.)
MW   10   0.688   0.473   0.497   0.481   0.584   0.533   103   C   064    11-5    12-5   MWC     Ripon
MW   11   0.600   0.522   0.497   0.514   0.557   0.535   127   C   083     9-6     9-7   MWC     Illinois College

W   001   0.850   0.642   0.550   0.612   0.731   0.671   004   A   C     17-3    17-3   WIAC    UW-Whitewater
W   002   0.850   0.605   0.558   0.590   0.720   0.655   008   C   001    17-3    18-3   WIAC    UW-Stevens Point
W   003   0.882   0.520   0.547   0.529   0.706   0.617   012   A   C     15-2    18-2   MIAC    St. Thomas
W   004   0.882   0.508   0.540   0.518   0.700   0.609   014   A   C     15-2    17-2   NWC     Whitworth
W   005   0.938   0.428   0.509   0.455   0.696   0.576   016   B   001    15-1    19-2   IND     Chapman
W   006   0.882   0.460   0.515   0.478   0.680   0.579   022   A   C     15-2    17-4   IIAC    Central
W   007   0.800   0.472   0.519   0.487   0.644   0.566   043   C   013     8-2    10-8   NWC     Linfield
W   008   0.818   0.458   0.481   0.466   0.642   0.554   045   A   C      9-2    14-5   SCIAC    Occidental
W   009   0.786   0.489   0.495   0.491   0.638   0.564   049   C   015    11-3    15-4   SCIAC    Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
W   010   0.684   0.593   0.562   0.582   0.633   0.608   054   C   020    13-6    14-7   WIAC    UW-La Crosse
W   011   0.722   0.514   0.538   0.522   0.622   0.572   069   C   033    13-5    13-7   MIAC    Gustavus Adolphus
W   012   0.684   0.571   0.523   0.555   0.619   0.587   072   C   035    13-6    13-6   MIAC    Augsburg

      Pool:   A   Top ranked team in Pool A eligible conference
         B   Pool B eligible team
         C   At large candidate
         N/A   Not eligible for postseason participation

      B or C #      Rank in Pool (C or B)

      A Status:   C   Pool A candidate, would rank within top 19 of Pool C
         C-2   2nd tier Pool A candidate, would rank 20-29 of Pool C
         Blank   Ranks outside of the top 29 of Pool C

      RPI50:   50% WP and 50% SOS
      RPI:   25% WP and 75% SOS

      Updated:   2/4/2010

This new 50-50 ratio generally seemed to do a better job across the regions in ranking teams (though I stupidly updated to include games through Wednesday before I dug into it).

What do you guys think?

Hugenerd · February 04, 2010, 12:55:00 PM

I had hypothesized a while back that the 50-50 weighting may be more close to what they use, given the wording in the NCAA handbook (they are both primary criteria and no weight is given of one with respect to the other). I think the way you have shown that the rankings follow the RPI50 is rather compelling. So maybe the RPI50 + taking into account head-to-head with teams ranked close to eachother is how they do it?