Pool C

[magicman]

Can someone remind me will they be announcing the teams who are in tonight and the brackets tomorrow? Or is it everything tomorrow?

I believe it's everything tomorrow. That's what they have done in the past.

[cubs]

I think Wheaton is out.  With the upsets that have taken place, I just don't think the .680 in-region winning percentage will be competitive. Hope I'm wrong, but I don't think it looks good for Wheaton.

I think the final 2-3 Pool C spots will come down to this group of teams:

* Rutgers-Newark
* Ithaca
* Calvin
* Thomas More
* Messiah
* Wheaton (IL)
* Anderson
* Austin
* UW-La Crosse

Hard to believe is still in the conversation despite losing 6 of their last 8 games.  To think if they would have went 4-4 over the last 8 games, they would likely have earned one of the last Pool c spots.

[sac]

Can someone remind me will they be announcing the teams who are in tonight and the brackets tomorrow? Or is it everything tomorrow?

I believe it's everything tomorrow. That's what they have done in the past.

I seem to remember one year they released the teams on one day, and the pairings the next.

[Titan Q]

Listening to the Hoopsville interview with the Anderson head coach.  A whole bunch of sour grapes being thrown around there...wow.

* They had a game "stolen" from them at Hanover
* No one will play them (including teams that regularly play the likes of Wash U and other great programs)
* Inferred some type of reason other than criteria is why Wheaton and IWU are ranked higher in the region
* Wants credit for playing Platteville...even though out of region


Interesting interview.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Hey can someone fill me in on why we think Witt will be ahead of Wilmington on the GL Region list?

[John Gleich]

I think Wheaton is out.  With the upsets that have taken place, I just don't think the .680 in-region winning percentage will be competitive. Hope I'm wrong, but I don't think it looks good for Wheaton.

I think the final 2-3 Pool C spots will come down to this group of teams:

* Rutgers-Newark
* Ithaca
* Calvin
* Thomas More
* Messiah
* Wheaton (IL)
* Anderson
* Austin
* UW-La Crosse

Hard to believe is still in the conversation despite losing 6 of their last 8 games.  To think if they would have went 4-4 over the last 8 games, they would likely have earned one of the last Pool c spots.

Yeah, La Crosse really shot themselves in the foot.  Then in they followed with the shin and the thigh.  They were in a GREAT spot for a Pool C at the end of December... but then absolutely fell apart.

[David Collinge]

Hey can someone fill me in on why we think Witt will be ahead of Wilmington on the GL Region list?

Do we think that?  We certainly think that Wilmington will keep playing this week and Wittenberg will not, making their relative positions on the GL list irrelevant.  Nevertheless, this component of "we" doesn't expect Witt to be ranked at all (in the GL), much less ahead of Wilma.

[AUStudent]

Listening to the Hoopsville interview with the Anderson head coach.  A whole bunch of sour grapes being thrown around there...wow.

* They had a game "stolen" from them at Hanover
* No one will play them (including teams that regularly play the likes of Wash U and other great programs)
* Inferred some type of reason other than criteria is why Wheaton and IWU are ranked higher in the region
* Wants credit for playing Platteville...even though out of region


Interesting interview.

where can i listen to this at?

thanks


quote formatting fixed

[Pat Coleman]

Front page of D3hoops.com is always a good place to check for interesting things. Show was on from 5-9:30 ET.

[Greek Tragedy]

Pool A  (Automatic Qualifier)

Pool C

Conference Leader

Atlantic Region In-Region Record Overall Record
AQ1.(1) William Paterson 22-2 23-2 (NJAC)  BEAT Richard Stockton in NJAC Final
AQ2.(2) Merchant Marine 20-4 21-4 (LAND) BEAT Scranton in Landmark Final
3.(3) Rutgers-Newark  16-5 20-6 (NJAC) LOST to Richard Stockton in NJAC semis
4.(5) Richard Stockton 19-5 19-6 (NJAC) LOST to William Paterson in NJAC Final
5.(4) Ramapo 17-7 18-8 (NJAC) LOST to William Paterson in NJAC semis;

Previously ranked:  York (N.Y.)  (CUNYAC) LOST to Brooklyn in CUNYAC Final

East Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1.(1) St. John Fisher  20-4 21-4 (Empire 8); LOST to Nazareth in Empire 8 Final
AQ2.(6) Plattsburgh State  17-6 18-7 (SUNYAC) BEAT Oneonta State in SUNYAC Final
3.(3) Oneonta State  19-5 20-5 (SUNYAC) LOST to Plattsburgh State in SUNYAC Final
4.(NA) Ithaca  15-6 18-7 (Empire 8) LOST to Nazareth in Empire 8 semis  
AQ5.(2) Medaille  20-4 21-4 (AMCC); BEAT Pitt-Bradford in AMCC Final
6.(5) New York University 15-8 16-8 (UAA); LOST to Brandeis  

Dropping out:  Stevens  (Empire 8)

Previously ranked: AQ Nazareth (Empire 8) BEAT St. John Fisher in Empire 8 Final, Rochester  (UAA) BEAT Emory

Great Lakes Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1.(2) John Carroll  17-5 19-5 (OAC) LOST to Heidelberg in OAC semis.
AQ2.(3) Wooster  20-4 20-5 (NCAC); BEAT Wittenberg in NCAC Final
AQ3.(1) Hope 13-3 18-7 (MIAA); BEAT Calvin in MIAA Final
4.(4) Calvin 13-3 17-8 (MIAA); LOST to Hope in MIAA Final
5.(6) Thomas More  19-6 19-6 (PrAC) LOST to Grove City in PrAC Final
AQ6.(NA) Wilmington 17-6 18-7 (OAC); BEAT Heidelberg in OAC Final.

Dropping out:  Wittenberg (NCAC) LOST to Wooster in NCAC Final

Middle Atlantic Region In-Region Record Overall Record
AQ1.(4) St. Mary's 20-3 22-3 (CAC); BEAT Wesley in CAC Final
AQ2.(1) Albright 18-5 19-5 (MACC) BEAT Lycoming in MACC Final  
AQ3.(2) Franklin and Marshall 21-4 21-4 (Centennial); BEAT Gettysburg in Centennial Final
AQ4.(5) Cabrini 23-2 23-2 (CSAC); BEAT Neumann in CSAC Final
5.(3) Lycoming 16-5 20-5 (MACC) LOST to Albright in MACC Final  
AQ6.(6) DeSales 19-4 20-5 (MACF); BEAT Misericordia in MACF Final
7.(8) Messiah 15-5 16-8 (MACC); LOST to Albright in MACC semis
8.(7) York (Pa) 18-6 19-6 (CAC); LOST to Wesley in CAC semis
9.(NA) Wesley 14-5 17-7 (CAC); LOST to St. Mary's (Md) in CAC Final

Dropping out:  Catholic (LAND) LOST to Scranton in LAND semis

Previously ranked:  Elizabethtown (MACC) LOST to Lycoming in MACC semis, Alvernia (MACC)


Midwest Region In-Region Record Overall Record
AQ1.(1) Washington U 19-2 22-2 (UAA); BEAT Chicago
AQ2.(2) Carthage 16-3 20-5 (CCIW); BEAT Illinois Wesleyan in CCIW Final
3.(4) Wheaton (Ill) 17-7 18-7 (CCIW); LOST to Illinois Wesleyan in CCIW semis
4.(5) Illinois Wesleyan  18-6 19-6 (CCIW); LOST to Carthage in CCIW Final
AQ5.(3) St. Norbert 19-3 20-3 (MWC); BEAT Carroll U. in MWC Final
6.(6) Anderson 19-4 21-4 (HCAC); LOST to Defiance in HCAC Final
AQ7.(7) Defiance 18-5 20-5 (HCAC); BEAT Anderson in HCAC Final
8.(8) Augustana 16-8 16-9 (CCIW); LOST to Carthage in CCIW semis

Northeast Region In-Region Record Overall Record
AQ1.(1) Williams 22-0 24-1 (NESCAC); BEAT Middlebury in NESCAC Final
2.(3) Middlebury 19-2 23-2 (NESCAC); LOST to Williams in NESCAC Final
3.(2) MIT 21-2 22-3 (NEWMAC); LOST to Clark in NEWMAC semis
4.(5) Colby 17-4 19-5 (NESCAC); LOST to Middlebury in NESCAC semis
5.(4) Brandeis 18-6 18-6 (UAA); BEAT NYU
AQ6.(7) Rhode Island College  18-7 18-7 (LEC); BEAT Western Connecticut in LEC Final
AQ7.(6) Bridgewater State 16-5 17-7 (MASCAC); BEAT Framingham State in MASCAC Final
AQ8.(9) Gordon 20-4 21-4 (CCC); BEAT Curry in CCC Final
9.(11) Western Connecticut  17-6 18-6 (LEC); LOST to Rhode Island College in LEC Final  
10.(10) WPI 17-6 18-6 (NEWMAC);  LOST to Clark in NEWMAC Final
11.(8)Eastern Connecticut  17-8 17-8 (LEC); LOST to Western Connecticut in LEC semis

Previously ranked:  Mass-Dartmouth (LEC); AQ Albertus Magnus (GNAC) BEAT Emerson in GNAC Final

South Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1.(1) Eastern Mennonite  17-2 21-3 (ODAC) LOST to Randolph-Macon in ODAC semis
AQ2.(2) Guilford 23-2 23-2 (ODAC) BEAT Randolph-Macon in ODAC Final
3.(3) Texas-Dallas 20-3 21-4 (ASC-East); LOST to Mary Hardin-Baylor in ASC Final
4.(4) Virginia Wesleyan  19-4 21-4 (ODAC); LOST to Guilford in ODAC semis  
5.(6) Randolph-Macon 14-5 20-5 (ODAC); LOST to Guilford in ODAC Final
6.(7) Maryville (Tenn.) 14-3 21-4 (GSAC) Pool B; BEAT La Grange in GSAC Final
7.(5) Austin 19-6 19-6 (SCAC); LOST to DePauw in SCAC semis
AQ8.(8) Mary Hardin-Baylor 19-5 19-6 (ASC-West) BEAT Texas Dallas in ASC Final

Previously ranked:  Mississippi College  (ASC-East) LOST to Mary Hardin-Baylor in ASC semis

West Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1.(1) Whitewater 21-4 21-4 (WIAC); LOST to Stevens Point in WIAC Final
2.(3) St. Thomas 20-2 23-2 (MIAC); LOST to Carleton in MIAC semis
AQ3.(4) Whitworth 21-2 23-2 (NWC); BEAT George Fox in NWC Final
AQ4.(2) Stevens Point 20-4 21-4 (WIAC); BEAT Whitewater in WIAC Final
AQ5.(5)Central 19-2 21-4 (IIAC) BEAT Buena Vista in IIAC Final
6.(7) Chapman 17-1 23-2 (Independent) Pool B
7.(9) La Crosse 16-7 17-8 (WIAC); LOST to Superior in WIAC quarterfinals
AQ8.(6) Claremont–Mudd-Scripps  15-4 19-5 (SCIAC) BEAT Ponoma-Pitzer in SCIAC Final
9.(8) Augsburg  17-7 18-7 (MIAC); LOST to Gustavus Adolphus in MIAC semis

[Greek Tragedy]

POOL C CONTENDERS WITHOUT AQ'S INCLUDED.  Just to make it a little easier!

Conference Leader

Atlantic Region In-Region Record Overall Record
3.(3) Rutgers-Newark  16-5 20-6 (NJAC) LOST to Richard Stockton in NJAC semis
4.(5) Richard Stockton 19-5 19-6 (NJAC) LOST to William Paterson in NJAC Final
5.(4) Ramapo 17-7 18-8 (NJAC) LOST to William Paterson in NJAC semis;

Previously ranked:  York (N.Y.)  (CUNYAC) LOST to Brooklyn in CUNYAC Final

East Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1.(1) St. John Fisher  20-4 21-4 (Empire 8); LOST to Nazareth in Empire 8 Final
3.(3) Oneonta State  19-5 20-5 (SUNYAC) LOST to Plattsburgh State in SUNYAC Final
4.(NA) Ithaca  15-6 18-7 (Empire 8) LOST to Nazareth in Empire 8 semis  
6.(5) New York University 15-8 16-8 (UAA); LOST to Brandeis  

Dropping out:  Stevens  (Empire 8)

Previously ranked:  Rochester  (UAA) BEAT Emory

Great Lakes Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1.(2) John Carroll  17-5 19-5 (OAC) LOST to Heidelberg in OAC semis.
4.(4) Calvin 13-3 17-8 (MIAA); LOST to Hope in MIAA Final
5.(6) Thomas More  19-6 19-6 (PrAC) LOST to Grove City in PrAC Final

Dropping out:  Wittenberg (NCAC) LOST to Wooster in NCAC Final

Middle Atlantic Region In-Region Record Overall Record
5.(3) Lycoming 16-5 20-5 (MACC) LOST to Albright in MACC Final  
7.(8) Messiah 15-5 16-8 (MACC); LOST to Albright in MACC semis
8.(7) York (Pa) 18-6 19-6 (CAC); LOST to Wesley in CAC semis
9.(NA) Wesley 14-5 17-7 (CAC); LOST to St. Mary's (Md) in CAC Final

Dropping out:  Catholic (LAND) LOST to Scranton in LAND semis

Previously ranked:  Elizabethtown (MACC) LOST to Lycoming in MACC semis, Alvernia (MACC)


Midwest Region In-Region Record Overall Record
3.(4) Wheaton (Ill) 17-7 18-7 (CCIW); LOST to Illinois Wesleyan in CCIW semis
4.(5) Illinois Wesleyan  18-6 19-6 (CCIW); LOST to Carthage in CCIW Final
6.(6) Anderson 19-4 21-4 (HCAC); LOST to Defiance in HCAC Final
8.(8) Augustana 16-8 16-9 (CCIW); LOST to Carthage in CCIW semis

Northeast Region In-Region Record Overall Record
2.(3) Middlebury 19-2 23-2 (NESCAC); LOST to Williams in NESCAC Final
3.(2) MIT 21-2 22-3 (NEWMAC); LOST to Clark in NEWMAC semis
4.(5) Colby 17-4 19-5 (NESCAC); LOST to Middlebury in NESCAC semis
5.(4) Brandeis 18-6 18-6 (UAA); BEAT NYU
9.(11) Western Connecticut  17-6 18-6 (LEC); LOST to Rhode Island College in LEC Final  
10.(10) WPI 17-6 18-6 (NEWMAC);  LOST to Clark in NEWMAC Final
11.(8)Eastern Connecticut  17-8 17-8 (LEC); LOST to Western Connecticut in LEC semis

Previously ranked:  Mass-Dartmouth (LEC);

South Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1.(1) Eastern Mennonite  17-2 21-3 (ODAC) LOST to Randolph-Macon in ODAC semis 
3.(3) Texas-Dallas 20-3 21-4 (ASC-East); LOST to Mary Hardin-Baylor in ASC Final
4.(4) Virginia Wesleyan  19-4 21-4 (ODAC); LOST to Guilford in ODAC semis  
5.(6) Randolph-Macon 14-5 20-5 (ODAC); LOST to Guilford in ODAC Final
7.(5) Austin 19-6 19-6 (SCAC); LOST to DePauw in SCAC semis

Previously ranked:  Mississippi College  (ASC-East) LOST to Mary Hardin-Baylor in ASC semis

West Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1.(1) Whitewater 21-4 21-4 (WIAC); LOST to Stevens Point in WIAC Final
2.(3) St. Thomas 20-2 23-2 (MIAC); LOST to Carleton in MIAC semis
7.(9) La Crosse 16-7 17-8 (WIAC); LOST to Superior in WIAC quarterfinals
9.(8) Augsburg  17-7 18-7 (MIAC); LOST to Gustavus Adolphus in MIAC semis

[/quote]

[Gregory Sager]

The debates that we have had on the ASC boards is that coaches have to fill 25 dates each season.

For all practical purposes, the closest 20/21 opponents (the double round robin and single crossover schedule for the 7 member East and the 8 member West divisions) are the conference members are the conference members.  Filling 20/21 dates on the schedule locks out those dates as ones that can be used to schedule with another team that is nearby.  Trinity, Southwestern, Austin College, University of Dallas, and Millsaps are basically the only schools nearby that can fill those dates.  Every other D3 opponent is a plane flight.

There's Rust and Hendrix, too, and I think that Rhodes might be within range of a couple ASC schools. But, yeah, the pickings are slim. All the more reason why the ASC should welcome the arrival of Centenary and New Orleans into D3, regardless of whether or not either school actually joins the ASC.

[Ralph Turner]

The debates that we have had on the ASC boards is that coaches have to fill 25 dates each season.

For all practical purposes, the closest 20/21 opponents (the double round robin and single crossover schedule for the 7 member East and the 8 member West divisions) are the conference members are the conference members.  Filling 20/21 dates on the schedule locks out those dates as ones that can be used to schedule with another team that is nearby.  Trinity, Southwestern, Austin College, University of Dallas, and Millsaps are basically the only schools nearby that can fill those dates.  Every other D3 opponent is a plane flight.

There's Rust and Hendrix, too, and I think that Rhodes might be within range of a couple ASC schools. But, yeah, the pickings are slim. All the more reason why the ASC should welcome the arrival of Centenary and New Orleans into D3, regardless of whether or not either school actually joins the ASC.

Yeah, but that still doesn't increase the pool by that much.     Besides, Rust is another 279 miles farther east of Ozarks and 254 miles north of Mississippi College.

We should see the response by the ASC Presidents to the University of New Orleans, when they have re-classified, in June 2010 after the ASC Presidents meeting.

Centenary is still in the Summit League thru June 2011, unless the Summit League wants to cut its travel expenses (and without affecting its AQ bids) and releases Centenary to re-classify.  The re-classifiication deadline is about May 15th.

In both cases, games will not count as in-region for 2 more years beyond that.

Now if the ASC can get about three more teams to join, then the conference may be able to split into 2 conferences.  The ASC membership is just too tenuous at maintaining the member numbers of participants in the full complement of 7 full members in the five men's and women's sports that a conference needs to sponsor.  

[Gregory Sager]

The debates that we have had on the ASC boards is that coaches have to fill 25 dates each season.

For all practical purposes, the closest 20/21 opponents (the double round robin and single crossover schedule for the 7 member East and the 8 member West divisions) are the conference members are the conference members.  Filling 20/21 dates on the schedule locks out those dates as ones that can be used to schedule with another team that is nearby.  Trinity, Southwestern, Austin College, University of Dallas, and Millsaps are basically the only schools nearby that can fill those dates.  Every other D3 opponent is a plane flight.

There's Rust and Hendrix, too, and I think that Rhodes might be within range of a couple ASC schools. But, yeah, the pickings are slim. All the more reason why the ASC should welcome the arrival of Centenary and New Orleans into D3, regardless of whether or not either school actually joins the ASC.

Yeah, but that still doesn't increase the pool by that much.     Besides, Rust is another 279 miles farther east of Ozarks and 254 miles north of Mississippi College.

True, but Mississippi, Arkansas, Tennessee, and Louisiana are all in NCAA Administrative Region 3, so Rust, Rhodes, and Hendrix are therefore in-region opponents for all the various ASC teams in those states. And in your neck of the woods, a 250- or 280-mile road trip is a nice little joyride.

Now if the ASC can get about three more teams to join, then the conference may be able to split into 2 conferences.  The ASC membership is just too tenuous at maintaining the member numbers of participants in the full complement of 7 full members in the five men's and women's sports that a conference needs to sponsor. 

Any rumors afoot as to more Texas schools shifting over to D3? Not that Texans would be all that interested in following in the footsteps of Nebraskans, of course ....

[fritzdis]

Can someone calculate what Anderson's OOWP would have been had they never played (and beaten) Alma, Bluffton (x2), Earlham, and Oberlin?

I believe their OWP would have been .548 (assuming I understand how it's calculated), but I'm not sure of the right way to calculate OOWP.  If their OOWP remained at .495, they'd have a SOS of .530, along with a WP of .750, giving them a resume very similar to John Carroll (I believe both even went 2-2 in-region against ranked opponents).

(I'm basing all these numbers off the SOS page, which looks like it hasn't been updated with Sunday's games.  I'm assuming the numbers will be largely unchanged for the teams in question.)