Pool C

[Pat Coleman]

Feel free to go say that on the Landmark board, where someone thinks Mid-Atlantic fans are the most knowledgeable in Division III.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

WHAT?! We asked a good question??? Man - thought I blew that interview from what other people have told me (tongue-in-cheek).

In all seriousness, thank you Ziggy... appreciate that you could take something away from the interview. We work hard to get people like Dave Martin on the show and it's rewarding if fans feel they learned something or at least got something from the interview that provides better insight.

Unfortunately there are many more people that are content to complain rather than take the time to understand the process. Those that are willing to learn the process can gain a lot from the segments with Dave Martin.

Ziggy, there is a big difference between constructive criticism and complaining.  Those who were listening to last night's broadcast were looking for a few things:  First, why was a highly ranked Eastern Mennonite team not included in the tournament?  Second, the RMC debacle and what can be done to rectify that in the future?  Third, why an unusual amount of travel for certain teams?  The first was addressed (sort of), the second was answered well, and the third was brushed off.  He answered by saying, well the NABC likes more travel.  That leads to a great follow-up question, at any point did geographic diversity trump seeding?  And if so does that hurt the overall bracket process?  Of course, those questions were not asked.

My only gripe about the bracket was i felt F&M earned GMC's spot (a shorter trip to Ramapo, over a lengthy hike South).  If the Committee chair simply said, we did the seeds, thats where F&M fell, and we're ok with that travel, fine, end of story, all fans rejoice and drink champagne.  But he didnt say that, he was led into a "coaches like travel" discussion.  So does the desire to expand pods trump seeding, a question not just Mid atlantic fans have i'm sure?  we'll never know

and to be fair, Pat asked a great question about judging wins vs regionaly ranked teams equally.  Funny, since its the same thing ive been debating with DMac all week.  Committees have the ability to look behind the numbers and not take them at face value, and it was nice to see Dave Martin agree with me on that point. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Larry - you aren't listening... clearly:

- You probably know this, as Dave Martin explained, but to follow up for those not following... EMU didn't make it because they were ranked behind Ferrum in the region and Ferrum didn't make it. You can't take a team ranked behind another an put them in the tournament unless they earned their way there with the AQ.

- Dave did say that there was a miscommunication somewhere, but he hasn't gotten answer as to why (or can't state it publicly for all I know). You can be sure they will work to make sure that doesn't happen again. I also said after the commercial break that we tried to talk to the women's chair, but she was unavailable for Hoopsville.

- The unusual amount of travel for certain teams is not new... so the question is actually old. However, to answer it again as many have and as Dave has in this interview and in the past... geography trumps seeding (which actually, there isn't seeding, just regional rankings) when the trips are outside of the 500 mile rule (i.e. Whitworth which will probably not host next weekend if they are still in the tournament if Wooster or Marietta are still in as well - though Whitworth deserves to host more then the others).

His comment about the NABC (and he did indicate NCAA meetings in this or last interview) was to say that the coaches around the country want more travel - but not just to see other places, but help the tournament have more of a national feel and not just a regional beat-up contest eliminating teams that don't deserve to face off early with another highly ranked team.

The geography thing does hurt the process - as Dave mentioned - because they have to consider the number of flights involved and thus teams in Texas and the Northwest/West get screwed out of hosting later in the tournament as a result. It also is a challenge to try and keep good teams from running into one another early on when mileage becomes an issue. This is also something that has been talked about in Division III for at least five or more years - so it isn't new.

Those questions have been asked in the past... but apparently you just started to follow this stuff or didn't care because it hadn't affected your team until this year. I can't ask the same question every time I have someone on when the answer is always the same... and people on the boards besides Pat and I have also pointed this out.

Again... there are NO seeds... they base it on making sure not to repeat too many similiar regional rankings - not perfect, but they do their best. And if I asked about seeds, as everyone knows the answer would  have been - none exist... so it would be pointless to ask it again.

And I refer you back to the "behind the numbers" post I had in the Mid-Atlantic board... that was a discussion based on getting the final teams picked... not necessarily to EVERY decision that is made, especially when the primary criteria has an easy team to pick from the other.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

d-mac, Bra-Vo!  youre finally starting to give me legit answers to what i've been posting all week in regards to travel. 

Here's the thing, i'll never buy the BS that coaches want to travel simply to see new places, that are of course confined to a 500 mile distance.  If they want to travel, they can do that in preseason/holiday tourneys.  They want to travel for the exact reason you brought up, they want to prevent having to go against top teams until as late as possible in the tournament. 

Now i dont live in a vacuum.  Yes, teams have to travel and have traveled for years.  The question is, how many teams in a specific pod should be forced to go a long distance?  And then, which teams do indeed make the trip?  Lets be fair though, the committee might not use a sophisticated seeding system but clearly they have a seeding process in mind or else we'd be whining about a plethora of 2nd round matchups taking place in the first round. 

[Ralph Turner]

With the concentration of teams that one has in the BOS-WASH megalopolis, it only makes sense to break up the regions and have cross region play.  It gives us a chance to see which conferences are better than others in a longitudinal fashion over several seasons.

Seeding can be done on the east coast, but in other parts of the country, especially west of the Appalachians and south of the Potomac, travel constraints prevent a reasonable seeding effort.

I don't mind a consideration given to the mindset of
1) deserves to host a pod
2) deserves a "neutral site" for the first round game.
3) just won the conference for the first time in 30 years and just glad to be playing in an NCAA tourney game.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Lusty - I have been giving you the same answer every time... it is getting to the point I feel like I have repeated myself too many times and it is giving me headache. I have also talked about it plenty of times on Hoopsville... so it isn't I am finally answering your questions... I think you are finally reading them or hearing the answers.

[Ralph Turner]

Lusty - I have been giving you the same answer every time... it is getting to the point I feel like I have repeated myself too many times and it is giving me headache. I have also talked about it plenty of times on Hoopsville... so it isn't I am finally answering your questions... I think you are finally reading them or hearing the answers.

+1! 

[sac]

Hoopsville tonight...

We get another bid next season.

This is great news!!!

[iwumichigander]

SOS is a big deal for the committee.  It has been for the decade plus I've been following d3.  It's probably more important, in my opinion, than it should be.

For IWU's sake, I hope the gave against River Falls is at least close.

Final IWU 83 River Falls 76
I think we took care of business and your concern --- close enough?

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

Lusty - I have been giving you the same answer every time... it is getting to the point I feel like I have repeated myself too many times and it is giving me headache. I have also talked about it plenty of times on Hoopsville... so it isn't I am finally answering your questions... I think you are finally reading them or hearing the answers.

look out, DMac got a Turner point!!

[sac]

The NathCon and AMCC, two traditionally below average conferences get 2 teams in and both go out in round 1.  The Nathcon held its own I suppose with a couple close losses.

Hard to get excited about the Pool C process when it identifies teams with gaudy records as better than teams that have played in tougher conferences all season long.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

SOS is a big deal for the committee.  It has been for the decade plus I've been following d3.  It's probably more important, in my opinion, than it should be.

For IWU's sake, I hope the gave against River Falls is at least close.

Final IWU 83 River Falls 76
I think we took care of business and your concern --- close enough?

I picked IWU to win.  I'm on board.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I do have to formally apologize to Becker.  The oldest school in the tournament is not the worst.  Apparently Scranton is also quite bad.

[John Gleich]

The NathCon and AMCC, two traditionally below average conferences get 2 teams in and both go out in round 1.  The Nathcon held its own I suppose with a couple close losses.

Hard to get excited about the Pool C process when it identifies teams with gaudy records as better than teams that have played in tougher conferences all season long.

I can't vouch for the AMCC... but the NathCon held its own this year.  They wouldn't have gotten two bids if CUW hadn't been knocked off, but they did... heck, they were #24 in the last poll and were the top team ranked in the Midwest in the second-to-last regional rankings.

I really feel for teams like Eastern Mennonite and Carleton in their situations, but the at-large team from the NAthCon wasn't a team that was just on the brink.  They were the champion of a conference that did pretty well against others in the region.

Two of last year's final four participants barely squeaked by tonight.  St. Thomas was taken to the brink against Northwestern and was down 2 at the half.  This is the NCAA tournament... just because a team loses doesn't mean that they didn't deserve the bid.

[nwhoops1903]

Amherst gets the Friday Pool C award.  Wow!