Pool C

[David Collinge]

New data through Monday, Jan 25. I think I'm finally caught up after all the postponements.

http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-regional-rankings-data/

When was the last time the WIAC failed to rank even one team?

Just looking at the page - the SUNYAC numbers seem to have only conference games instead of a full d3 record.

We changed the names we use to reference a handful of SUNYAC schools in order to conform to their wishes. Might affect whatever you're using to collect info?

Yep, this would affect how the numbers pull in. I think I have it fixed now for these SUNYAC teams.

Feel free to check my work everybody. Team names on my rankings page should match the d3hoops names exactly (with the exception that I remove apostrophes).

Any other name changes you can think of?

I am given to understand that Baptist Bible has become Summit.

slinks away sniggering

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I admit that I've been gone from the Empire State for a long time now, but I've never heard anyone from upstate New York refer to one of the SUNY schools by using the "SUNY" prefix. Sure, people use the acronym "SUNY" (pronounced "soony", not "sunny", or at least it's pronounced that way in central NY) when referring to New York's state university system as a whole, but it's always been "Brockport State" or "Buff State" or "Potsdam State" or "Cortland State", or just the name of the town, as in "Geneseo" or "Fredonia" or "Morrisville". "Soony Brockport" or "Soony Oswego" just sounds plain goofy to my ears.

Again, though, I've been gone a long time, and perhaps the drumbeat of officialdom that pg04 indicated has changed things.

It's SOONY - needs an extra N for SUNNY.

As for what it always has been... the presidents at these institutions have been changing the way they have been called over the recent years. Buffalo State is actually one of the rare ones who likes having "state" in their name. The rest rather have it be SUNY (location) or just (location). They rather not have "state" mentioned at all. They want the pride in "SUNY" to be part of it. It has honestly caused more confusion than it needs to be... but that is neither here or nor there when it comes to presidents as we all know.

Interestingly, Maryland has gone through something similar. Basically everyone got rid of "state" (i.e. Towson State, Salisbury State, etc.) except some of the state schools that aren't state schools (Bowie, Coppin, Morgan, etc.) and Frostburg State. I am convinced Frostburg won't change their name because they go from FSU to FU.

[Gregory Sager]

I admit that I've been gone from the Empire State for a long time now, but I've never heard anyone from upstate New York refer to one of the SUNY schools by using the "SUNY" prefix. Sure, people use the acronym "SUNY" (pronounced "soony", not "sunny", or at least it's pronounced that way in central NY) when referring to New York's state university system as a whole, but it's always been "Brockport State" or "Buff State" or "Potsdam State" or "Cortland State", or just the name of the town, as in "Geneseo" or "Fredonia" or "Morrisville". "Soony Brockport" or "Soony Oswego" just sounds plain goofy to my ears.

Again, though, I've been gone a long time, and perhaps the drumbeat of officialdom that pg04 indicated has changed things.

It's SOONY - needs an extra N for SUNNY.

Exactly. Saying "sunny" is an inevitable prompt for an upstater to reply, "You're not from around here, are you?"

As for what it always has been... the presidents at these institutions have been changing the way they have been called over the recent years. Buffalo State is actually one of the rare ones who likes having "state" in their name.

I doubt that it's because the school's administrators "like" it. I suspect that it's more because one of the three flagship campuses of the SUNY system, the University at Buffalo (known to everyone in western New York as "UB"), shares that city with Buff State (which used to be the local "normal school", a college that trained teachers). People who don't live in the Niagara Frontier are generally confused about the fact that Buffalo has not one but two large state schools, and specifically calling the smaller one "Buffalo State" is a good way to create a separate identity for it in the public's mind.

The rest rather have it be SUNY (location) or just (location). They rather not have "state" mentioned at all. They want the pride in "SUNY" to be part of it.

While that's undoubtedly the official line that you've been fed by administrators, D-Mac, I think that it's more a matter of school officials trying to avoid the stigma attached to the word "State" as part of a school's name. That's not to say that there aren't publicly-owned colleges and universities in America that have good academic reputations. But the modifier "State" seems to be associated in the general American mindset with land-grant universities in particular that don't have the good academic rep of the state's flagship public university. (Think Michigan State University, as opposed to the University of Michigan; Iowa State University, as opposed to the University of Iowa; the Cal State schools as opposed to Berkeley or UCLA; Kansas State University, as opposed to the University of Kansas; there's lots of other examples.)

The word "State" in a school's name is almost treated as though it's a wart or a polyp -- an unsightly growth that is best removed. (Trine University, I'm looking in your direction. )

[pg04]

I can see Buffalo state not budging at all, because then you'd have SUNY Buffalo and... SUNY Buffalo

But like I said previously I (and our manager) liked using the "Brockport State" version even with the push back way back then.

[pg04]

Adding to what I said and what GS said, they don't even say UB anymore really, if you look at the stadium field and uniform it's The State University of New York at Buffalo. Somehow they fit that all on the jersey.

[Gregory Sager]

School administrators.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Sager - you may think I am getting the "party line," but usually the ones I am talking to will tell me what the "party line" is and then what the real reason is after all. Right now, it's a combination of the state issue as you and I have both described along with trying to be universal throughout the entire system. They really are trying to rally around the SUNY for whatever reason. I personally don't care enough to get more involved... I just want to make sure I am respecting them enough to call them by their right names. Certainly don't want people thinking I, like broadcasters on the NCAA selection shows, don't respect them enough to call them by their right name.

I know the New York State region well. Half of my extended family is from the Mohawk Valley and surrounding areas including going to a few schools in the region. And I thought my grandfather had something to do with the SUNY system as a state judge, but I have to get deep into my records to find that one apparently.

[magicman]

I have to agree with Greg on this whole SUNY issue. Here in Plattsburgh we don't mind being called Plattsburgh State. 

I also know a number of people at my alma mater that are employed at Potsdam State. I haven't heard one of them, yet, refer to the school as SUNY Potsdam.

Of the 10 teams in the SUNYAC conference there are 3 of them, Plattsburgh State, Oswego State and Buffalo State that have not gone in the SUNY direction.

Brockport is not SUNY Brockport but "The College at Brockport"

Cortland refers to themselves as SUNY Cortland, in articles I've seen on their website but I see that D3hoops doesn't call them SUNY Cortland on their D3hoops page.

The same with Fredonia. The school website refers to their name as SUNY Fredonia, yet their uniforms say Fredonia State on them.  D3 hoops just calls them Fredonia. Most of their write ups on the sports teams simply refer to them as Fredonia.

So we basically have 6 teams that use the SUNY prefix... SUNY Cortland, SUNY Fredonia, SUNY Geneseo,   SUNY New Paltz, SUNY Oneonta, and SUNY Potsdam. Although sometimes they drop the SUNY.

Then we have 3 schools that use the State designation...Buffalo State, Oswego State, and Plattsburgh State. They don't mind being called State schools.

Finally we have the College at Brockport that stands alone, using neither of the above monikers.


Of course there is also affiliate Morrisville State, that is a member of the SUNYAC Hockey conference. They don't appear to mind the State handle either.

And I'm not even going to get into the 2 year schools that are now 4 year schools, like SUNY-Canton and
SUNY-Cobleskill, that need to add that all important hyphen to their name. Not to mention SUNYIT in Utica, that the last time I looked, was no longer SUNYIT, but called the SUNY Polytechnic Institute (Please note D3hoops) . All their sports write-ups refer to them as SUNY Poly (capitals on the SUNY and no hyphen)

Don't forget Alfred State another former 2 year school, that is now a 4 year school, and is a provisional member of D3, but not a member of any conference..yet.

We could also mention all those other SUNY schools that are now in Division I, like Binghamton University, Stony Brook University, The University at Albany and The University at Buffalo, some of whom were also referred to as "State" schools at one time or another.

You can call me SUNY or you can call me SUNNY or you can call me Potsdam College, or you can call me, The College at Potsdam or you can call me the State University at Potsdam, but you doesn't has to call me Potsdam State.      

Hard to keep up with the SUNY schools but I'm calling all the ones in the SUNYAC hoops conference what I've always called them and that's Potsdam State, Plattsburgh State, Geneseo State...well you get the picture.



     

[Pat Coleman]

Cortland and Fredonia was how they wanted to be listed, yeah. I preferred it all being uniform the way AP style was, but oh well.

[smedindy]

At least it's not the University of the South / Sewanee issue.

[KnightSlappy]

Data updated through Sunday 2/7. We'll see the first regional rankings using this data on Wednesday.

http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-regional-rankings-data/

[Fifth and Putnam]

Data updated through Sunday 2/7. We'll see the first regional rankings using this data on Wednesday.

http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-regional-rankings-data/

As always, thanks for doing this. It's incredibly useful and something I look at all the time.

[sac]

Looking for clarification on priority for 1st and 2nd round this year, women or men?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Women this year.

Women in even years; Men in odd years for the first weekend.

Men in even years; Women in odd years for the second weekend.

[sac]

KS's RPI Index updated through Sunday's games:
http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-regional-rankings-data/

Current Pool A's in position to get C's   (number on left is KS' national rank)
1.  Benedictine  22-0    1.000/.536/0-0
2.  St. Thomas  19-1      .950/.552/0-0
3.  Augustana   21-1     .935/.548/0-0
4.  Susquehanna  16-2    .889/.569/0-0
5.  Christopher Newport  20-1   .952/.543/0-0
8.  St. Norbert  18-2    .900/546/0-0
9.  Ohio Wesleyan  19-5     .905/.545/0-0
10.  Emory  14-5     .737/.600/0-0
13.  Whitworth  19-1   .950/.516/0-0
14.  John Carroll  21-0        1.000/.498/0-0
16.  Plattsburgh State   17-3    .850/.541/0-0
17.  Alma  16-5    .762/.568/0-0
(Hope is technically the MIAA's A at the moment but I'll let it slide)


Current Pool C position

1.  Marietta  19-2   .905/.553/0-0
2.  Amherst   18-4   .818/.577/0-0
3.  North Central 15-6    .714/.598/0-0
4.  Hope  17-1   .944/.510/0-0
5.  Salisbury  16-5   .762/.566/0-0
6.  Tufts  17-5   .773/.559/0-0
7.  Wooster 15-5    .750/.566/0-0
----------------------------------------------------Bubble if all 12 A's above became C's,  Four conferences have 2 teams in the top 19 Pool C slots
8.  Rochester  14-5   .737/.568/0-0
9.  Lynchburg  15-5   .750/.553/0-0
10.   Aurora   16-4     .751/.537/0-0
11.  Elmhurst  19-3    .846/.514/0-0
12.  Geneseo St.  14-4   .778/.539/0-0
13.  Catholic  16-5   .762/.544/0-0
14.  Chicago  13-6     .684/.569/0-0
15.  Texas Lutheran  17-5  .773/.535/0-0
16.  Brockport St.  12-7   .632/.580/0-0
17.  Whitman  17-3      .850/.507/0-0
18.  Oswego St.  14-6   .700/.556/0-0
19.  Oneonta St.  13-7    .650/.572/0-0

8-19 would need all the current A's to get A's

20.  LaGrange  12-5     .706/.552/0-0
21.  Carroll  15-4   .789/.523/0-0
22.  Wesleyan  18-4   .818/.510/0-0
23.  DeSales  15-5   .750/.532/0-0
24.   Williams  13-8  .619/.575/0-0
25.  Concordia-Moorhead  14-6   .700/547/0-0
26.   St. John Fisher  15-5      .750/.527/0-0
27.   UW River Falls  11-8     .579/.584/0-0
28.  Bethel  14-6    .700/.543/0-0
30.   Scranton  15-5    .750/.524/0-0
31.   WPI  16-5    .762/.519/0-0
32.  Mt. Union 14-5    .737/.525/0-0
34.   NYU  17-3   .850/.482/0-0

Alot of SUNY teams in the top 19, I imagine they play each other quite a bit in the next two weeks so that will sort itself out



Current Pool A's that aren't in top 19 of Pool C that could get a C bid (number on left is KS's national rank)
22.  Trinity  15-6        .714/.574/0-0
23.  Stockton St.  17-4   .810/.538/0-0
30.  Babson  15-5    .750/.546/0-0
31.  Va. Wesleyan  15-6    .714/.556/0-0
33.  Frank & Marshall  18-3   .857/.507/0-0