Pool C

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

i'm a patient person.

let's see who gordon schedules next year.  ok??  you may describe the ccc as on par with lec and chasing newmac, but neither of them got two bids to the ncaa's.  i don't want to pick on gordon, but i believe they asked for it......

They probably didn't deserve two in this year, well they did, but it should have been Colby-Sawyer instead of Endicott.  Gordon lost a close one their first time in.  I can't blame then, especually when Utica went to the sweet sixteen.  They did well playing the numbers game, but its been a long time since a CCC team did that well, even with a schedule like that.  The NESCAC teams play the numbers game too by not having the double round-robin.  D3 is done regionally.  I like it that way.  I think they can improve it a little, but I'm not sure I'd like a tournament with 4 CCIW teams and 4 WIAC teams in every time.  It would start to look too much like D1.

[Ralph Turner]

i'm a patient person.

let's see who gordon schedules next year.  ok??  you may describe the ccc as on par with lec and chasing newmac, but neither of them got two bids to the ncaa's.  i don't want to pick on gordon, but i believe they asked for it......

I think they can improve it a little, but I'm not sure I'd like a tournament with 4 CCIW teams and 4 WIAC teams in every time.  It would start to look too much like D1.

+1 Hoops Fan!!!

Elmhurst lost the rubber match to North Central in the first round of the CCIW tourney.  That is probably what knocked them out of the NCAA's.

Elmhurst's in-region percentage fell below .667 with that loss.  That really hurt the Elmhurst and the CCIW,  and it is a primary criteria used by the selection committee.

I understand that the coaches, more than anyone else,  have voted in the Tourney.  Elmhurst had to know that it was on the bubble. The trip to the NCAA's began in the post-season tourney and stopped on the first night!  With the near universal adoption of the post-season tourney to award the AQ, the number teams that get the second chance at the AQ is close to 160.  (That is a good research project.  How many teams from Pool A Conferences particpate in a conference post-season tourney?)  Augie was everyone's lock.  Elmhurst lost when it had its chance!

If the fourth team out of the 8-member CCIW is the 18th best of the rest, then what about Albion which beat Elmhurst?  Albion stayed home, too.

The whole format of D1 tourney is not to identify the best 30 some odd at-large teams that did not qualify automatically!  It is to identify the 30 some odd best teams at drawing advertising revenue and viewership.  Over the years, how many mid-majors who went 23-4 stayed home because the 7th team of the ACC at 17-10 got picked?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Ralph,

You were underestimating things.  There are 228 Pool A teams that participated in their conference tournaments this year.  Only the SCIAC and the UAA remain in Pool A without a conference tournament.

This number may or may not increase next year as the NIIC teams filter into other conferences and various other changes apply.

[Titan Q]

There was very little separation among the CCIW's top 4 this year.  The league finished...

Augustana 11-3
North Central 9-5
Elmhurst 9-5
Illinois Wesleyan 9-5

The games where almost all tight.

Augustana vs Elmhurst
AC 60 EC 57 (@ Augie)
AC 63 EC 60 (@ Elmhurst) - Augie took lead with :04

Augustana vs Illinois Wesleyan
AC 57 IWU 54 (@ IWU)
AC 93 IWU 85 OT (@ Augie)
IWU 81 Augie 67 (@ Augie - CCIW tourney) - one of two blowouts in "contender games"

Augustana vs North Central
AC 85 NCC 79 (@ Augie) - NCC led under 2:00
NCC 86 AC 61 (@ North Central) - the other blowout

Illinois Wesleyan vs North Central
NCC 74 IWU 70 (@IWU)
IWU 91 NCC 88 (@ North Central)
NCC 51 IWU 49 (neutral - CCIW tourney)

Illinois Wesleyan vs Elmhurst
EC 72 IWU 64 (@ Elmhurst)
IWU 88 Elmhurst 87 OT (@ IWU)

North Central vs Elmhurst
EC 94 NCC 91 OT (@ North Central)
NCC 62 EC 59 (@ Elmhurst)
NCC 67 EC 57 (neutral - CCIW tourney) - 2 pt game with 3:00 to play


I think my posts on the CCIW board throughout the conference season reflected that fact that I could never figuure out who the best of the 4 really was.

I'm not saying Elmhurst should have made the tournament based on the system in place -- just saying that in reality, IWU, North Central, Elmhurst, and Augustana were very even based on head-to-head results.  I think 4 of the best 20 or so teams in the nation were in the CCIW this year.

[dewcrew88]

The whole format of D1 tourney is not to identify the best 30 some odd at-large teams that did not qualify automatically!  It is to identify the 30 some odd best teams at drawing advertising revenue and viewership.  Over the years, how many mid-majors who went 23-4 stayed home because the 7th team of the ACC at 17-10 got picked?

Ralph,
That was the bone of contention this year in the Division I selections. A lot of people felt that the big "power" conferences got shafted because the mid-majors (the Missouri Valley, etc.) got more bids this year.

For example, the MVC got the same amount of bids -- four-- that the ACC did.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The whole format of D1 tourney is not to identify the best 30 some odd at-large teams that did not qualify automatically!  It is to identify the 30 some odd best teams at drawing advertising revenue and viewership.  Over the years, how many mid-majors who went 23-4 stayed home because the 7th team of the ACC at 17-10 got picked?

Ralph,
That was the bone of contention this year in the Division I selections. A lot of people felt that the big "power" conferences got shafted because the mid-majors (the Missouri Valley, etc.) got more bids this year.

For example, the MVC got the same amount of bids -- four-- that the ACC did.

The Missouri Valley should have gotten more bids than the ACC; they still got screwed.

[Knightstalker]

So did Hofstra.  Go Monmouth!

[Ralph Turner]

Ralph,

You were underestimating things.  There are 228 Pool A teams that participated in their conference tournaments this year.  Only the SCIAC and the UAA remain in Pool A without a conference tournament. ...

There was very little separation among the CCIW's top 4 this year.  The league finished...

Augustana 11-3
North Central 9-5
Elmhurst 9-5
Illinois Wesleyan 9-5

The games where almost all tight. ...

I think my posts on the CCIW board throughout the conference season reflected that fact that I could never figuure out who the best of the 4 really was.

I'm not saying Elmhurst should have made the tournament based on the system in place -- just saying that in reality, IWU, North Central, Elmhurst, and Augustana were very even during CCIW play.  I think 4 of the best 20 or so teams in the nation were in the CCIW this year.

Thanks for the number, Hoops fan!  What those 228 have done is to fill out an eight round bracket (8 rounds is 256 teams), with a few byes thrown in.

Then we have "18 do-overs" for some of the losers in those first 2 rounds.

Titan Q, I do believe that the CCIW had 4 teams that may been in the Top 25.  In the ASC-West, we had 3 women's teams that were paired in the first 2 rounds.  My alma mater, McMurry, is probably a Top 10 team in the country, but can't even win the Abilene City Championship!  

[smedindy]

Ralph,
That was the bone of contention this year in the Division I selections. A lot of people felt that the big "power" conferences got shafted because the mid-majors (the Missouri Valley, etc.) got more bids this year.

For example, the MVC got the same amount of bids -- four-- that the ACC did.

The only people who felt that way were the ACC homers (or SEC homers) and Jim Nantz and Billy Packer. Rational sports fans and columnists derided those bozos.

[smedindy]

Ralph - I've studied the D-1 tourney a lot. It is a LOT better than it used to be. Only a few times has a truly deserving mid-major been left out. This year, Missouri State, but they let in Air Force, which I didn't have on my board. A couple of years ago Utah State, then Toledo a few years before that. If you lost 7 or 8 games, you don't really have any complaints, though.

Hofstra's SOS wasn't that good - so I can see why they were excluded.

[Ralph Turner]

The whole format of D1 tourney is not to identify the best 30 some odd at-large teams that did not qualify automatically!  It is to identify the 30 some odd best teams at drawing advertising revenue and viewership.  Over the years, how many mid-majors who went 23-4 stayed home because the 7th team of the ACC at 17-10 got picked?

Ralph,
That was the bone of contention this year in the Division I selections. A lot of people felt that the big "power" conferences got shafted because the mid-majors (the Missouri Valley, etc.) got more bids this year.

For example, the MVC got the same amount of bids -- four-- that the ACC did.

Perhaps the "Powers That Be" needed a few more Cinderellas this year.  You know,  to help with the Ratings.!  Now that is a bit cynical, but half of all this is 80% marketing or whatever the appropriate Yogi-ism is!

[Knightstalker]

Ralph - I've studied the D-1 tourney a lot. It is a LOT better than it used to be. Only a few times has a truly deserving mid-major been left out. This year, Missouri State, but they let in Air Force, which I didn't have on my board. A couple of years ago Utah State, then Toledo a few years before that. If you lost 7 or 8 games, you don't really have any complaints, though.

Hofstra's SOS wasn't that good - so I can see why they were excluded.

But the team they beat twice George Mason was in the tournament.

[smedindy]

But the team they beat twice George Mason was in the tournament.

One at Hofstra, one a neutral. GM beat Wichita State on the road, which probably tipped it to them. Hofstra didn't really have a signature non-conference win.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Speaking of this, why doesn't d-I have a pool system?  That way maybe UT-Corpus Cristi could have gotten the spot they deserved as a Pool B selection?

[Knightstalker]

But the team they beat twice George Mason was in the tournament.

One at Hofstra, one a neutral. GM beat Wichita State on the road, which probably tipped it to them. Hofstra didn't really have a signature non-conference win.

One at Hofstra and one at George Mason in the CAA tournament.   Two head to head wins in the last ten days should have given Hofstra the nod in my opinion.  I think they demonstrated they are the better team.