Pool C

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Not necessarily locked in ... as UST, UWO, and Amherst could lose again ... but certainly those are the front runners for that circumstance.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Sager - you asked a question a bunch of pages ago and now I can't find it (I have not mastered the search function like many). Something you wanted me to confirm or explain maybe?

Being sick last week and doing my best to recover quickly, I disconnected for a few days - wrong time of year to do that. Anyway, saw the message, but forgot to circle back.

[sac]

Each Pool C year is a little different, but if you are wondering what general kind of numbers get you in...below are the Pool C selections for the last two seasons. (Note, there are 20 Pool Cs this year...not 21.)

(I can't confirm the order of these selection...just my best guess at the time.)

2017-18 Season
1. Hamilton (NE/NESCAC): .846 (22-4)/.573/6-3 
2. Wesleyan (NE/NESCAC): .778 (21-6)/.590/8-4   
3. UW-Platteville (CE/WIAC: .833 (20-4)/.577/4-1   
4. Whitman (WE/NWC): .962 (25-1)/.515/4-1
5. Swarthmore (MA/CC): .815 (22-5)/.542/3-4   
6. St. John's (WE/MIAC): .880 (22-3)/.524/3-2 
7. Middlebury (NE/NESCAC): .760 (19-6).590/4-6   
8. Wooster (GL/NCAC): .778 (21-6)/.565/4-3
9. Marietta (GL/OAC): .778 (21-6)/.564/4-5   
10. New Jersey City (AT/NJAC): .731 (19-7)/.567/6-4   
11. Emory (SO/UAA): .840 (21-4)/.530/4-2 
12. Christopher Newport (MA/CAC): .777 (21-6)/.546/3-2   
13. UW-Oshkosh (CE/WIAC): .741 (20-7)/.554/2-4   
14. St. Olaf (WE/MIAC): .731 (19-7)/.544/3-2   
15. Albright (MA/Commonwealth): .769 (20-6)/.544/3-2   
16. Franklin and Marshall (MA/CC): .769 (20-6)/.536/3-4 
17. North Central (CE/CCIW): .692 (18-8)/.563/4-5   
18. Illinois Wesleyan (CE/CCIW): .731 (19-7)/.550/3-6 
19. Springfield (NE/NEWMAC): .692 (18-8)/.558/4-2 
20. Brockport (E/SUNYAC): .731/.529/3-3
21. LeTourneau (SO/ASC): .852 (23-4)/.511/2-2


2016-17 Season
1. Babson (NE/NEWMAC): .926/.574/4-1
2. Williams (NE/NESCAC): .731/.592/7-4   
3. Susquehanna (MA/LAND): .800/.556/4-4
4. UW-Whitewater (C/WIAC): .769/.567/3-5
5. Rochester (E/UAA): .840/.534/4-2
6. Amherst (NE/NESCAC): .708/.598/5-5
7. Tufts (NE/NESCAC): .769/.566/4-4
8. Wesleyan (NE/NESCAC): .760/.560/4-3
9. Whitworth (W/NWC): .852/.544/0-3
10. Salisbury (MA/CAC): .741/.546/3-4
11. New Jersey City (AT/NJAC): .750/.533/5-4
12. Hope (GL/MIAA): .800/.525/2-1
13. Cabrini (AT/CSAC): .760/.531/2-3
14. Emory (S/UAA): .720/.547/2-3
15. Skidmore (E/LL): .731/.527/6-1
16. St. Lawrence (E/LL): .769/.526/3-5
17. Augustana (C/CCIW): .704/.542/2-2
18. Keene State (NE/LEC): .679/.575/3-4
19. Endicott (NE/CCC): .786/.532/1-1
20. St. Thomas (W/MIAC): .731/.530/1-2
21. UW-Oshkosh: (C/WIAC): .630/.601/5-6


Current 2018-19 Numbers
* https://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/p/division-iii-mens-regional-rankings.html

* http://www.fantastic50.net/d3h_men.html

That Oshkosh pick really stands out doesn't it.

[Pat Coleman]

In so many ways, it was like that pick was for a D-I tournament.

[Gregory Sager]

Sager - you asked a question a bunch of pages ago and now I can't find it (I have not mastered the search function like many). Something you wanted me to confirm or explain maybe?

Being sick last week and doing my best to recover quickly, I disconnected for a few days - wrong time of year to do that. Anyway, saw the message, but forgot to circle back.

Here it is:

My attempts at trying to read between the lines whenever Dave has a national committee member on Hoopsville lead me to believe that they value the criteria and the regional rankings right up to the last dollar available to them ... but no further. They value them enough, in fact, to try to reward an obvious #1 seed such as Whitman whenever possible, so that if there's a couple of flights available within the budget they wouldn't hesitate to fly two Texas teams to Walla Walla. At the same time, though, there's no guarantees that bracketing requirements won't use up whatever extra flights are available, so if there aren't any extra flights the Blues will be on a plane to the Lone Star State even though they deserve better.

Is that a fair reading of what I keep hearing on Hoopsville, Dave?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I don't believe Oshkosh was the last pick in that year.  I suspect they went in at #18, right after Augustana.  They had a better resume, by the number (as then used) than Keene State, hands down.

[SaintPaulite]

I guess I do have a question here (quoted with the most recent edit as of time of my post): is this a work in progress? I just ask since there are a handful of pods that only have three teams instead of four.

Also, as a word of advice to help clean it up (I'm not trying to be snarky): "Insert table" is your friend.

I mean it's a work in progress all week on my laptop, probably.

The 5 extra spots are working from the Drew-sumption that there will be 5 bid thieves. And then I just hope they're in decent places, which I think it's fairly likely if there are 5 they will be -- because a lot of the locks are in the west and there are really only what 12 or 13 leagues where you can have a bid thief?

Example. Say John Carroll wins the OAC. That should still be fine bc they can go to North Central, then you shuffle one of the 3 line teams down to 4 which I don't love but it happens in the midwest. If Elmhurst wins the CCIW, then they're probably going to Loras. Etc. If Oshkosh and St. Norbert end up together, St. Norb can host as a placeholder for an Oshkosh hosting.

If things really go haywire, then maybe St. John's can't host, which I think would be unfortunate.

I tried the table button and it...did not appear to change anything at all. 

[SaintPaulite]

I don't believe Oshkosh was the last pick in that year.  I suspect they went in at #18, right after Augustana.  They had a better resume, by the number (as then used) than Keene State, hands down.

I'm apparently the only one other than UWO fans, but I thought that pick was fine. They had beaten good teams IIRC. Calling it a D1 pick seems more like a compliment than a slap, bc D1 clearly has a better system than D3. Absolutely no doubt about that. And it's even better now, their team sheets this year are awesome.

[SaintPaulite]

St. Thomas, Amherst and potentally Oshkosh, will host the first weekend on the womens side, barring something crazy.  Meaning that the men could not host.

Right, that's what the asterisks are about, along with Whitman and Emory not hosting despite being "1 seeds" in their pods.

[SaintPaulite]

Not that it seems like too many folks care (or maybe they're just resting up, hydrating, etc. for the week ahead), but I found IMO a better way to do the second weekend prog.

Basically when I had MIT messed up earlier, I forgot to change them in the 2nd weekend as well. But it led to some other things...

Whitman   CNU   at Swarthmore   Marietta
at Neb Wesleyan   St. Thomas   Amherst   Emory
at Oshkosh   St. John's   MIT   Wittenberg
Augustana   at Randolph-Macon   Wooster   Hamilton

Amherst can actually bus to Randy Mac, but I put Wooster there because *anyone* in the Wooster pod can bus there, and if Randy Mac didn't make it, they could bus a lot of other places as well.

If you don't care about seed integrity so much, you could just go back to the way I had it before, but that would be rough on Whitman (and MIT).

I don't think any of this would be anywhere near as bad as some we've had in the past where you had 3 potential national champions in the same first-weekend pod.

[sac]

Oshkosh ended up paired with Hope that year.  As a team they were very much worthy of an NCAA bid, but you could say that about a half dozen or more Great Lakes, Central, West programs every year who are left home, and probably other regions.  Oshkosh was such an outlier in criteria to previous years I didn't then and still don't like the pick as a Pool C.

[kiltedbryan]

Wooster juuuuuuuuust escapes a major upset bid by Allegheny. Scots senior Reese Dupler netted the decisive bucket with 3 seconds remaining to win 91-89. That avoids a "bid thief" as the Scots were a probable lock even with a loss.

With all top seeds advancing, (Wooster, Wittenberg, Wabash, DePauw), only true "bid thief" game left in NCAC tourney would be if DePauw (not in Pool C contention) tops Wooster (a lock) on Friday. Wittenberg should be in good shape for Pool C now regardless of results, and Wabash could sneak themselves onto the right side of the bubble with a win over Witt on Friday.

[wooscotsfan]

Final:  John Carroll 82  Marietta 79

Blue Streaks pull the road upset and the Pioneers will now be looking for a Pool C bid.
.

[fantastic50]

Final:  John Carroll 82  Marietta 79

Blue Streaks pull the road upset and the Pioneers will now be looking for a Pool C bid.
.

This upset impacts Pool C only if Capital fails to win the OAC title, as both the Pioneers and Blue Streaks are in good shape for Pool C berths.

[Smitty Oom]

Final:  John Carroll 82  Marietta 79

Blue Streaks pull the road upset and the Pioneers will now be looking for a Pool C bid.
.

This upset impacts Pool C only if Capital fails to win the OAC title, as both the Pioneers and Crusaders are in good shape for Pool C berths.

To quote Greg on The Belt^TM thread, FTFY