Pool C

[Titan Q]

Central region was crafty in building that resume for UW-La Crosse.  Perfectly done.

[Gregory Sager]

Final regional rankings...

https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-final

La Roche was 3 teams away from ever seeing the table -- behind Mount Union, Wilmington, Wabash.

This committee seems to be even more zealously committed to SOS being the primariest of the primary criteria than the VandeStreek committee was.

Central region was crafty in building that resume for UW-La Crosse.  Perfectly done.

We can't complain, that's for sure. The Central had more Pool C selections than any other region, even the Northeast.

[ronk]

Final regional rankings...

https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-final

La Roche was 3 teams away from ever seeing the table -- behind Mount Union, Wilmington, Wabash.

This committee seems to be even more zealously committed to SOS being the primariest of the primary criteria than the VandeStreek committee was.

Central region was crafty in building that resume for UW-La Crosse.  Perfectly done.

We can't complain, that's for sure. The Central had more Pool C selections than any other region, even the Northeast.

You could complain if the primary criteria should be equivalent; they should state ahead of time if there's a priority among the criteria.

[Titan Q]

Here is what the final round looked like (assuming UW-La Crosse was pick #20...

Round 20
(AT) Montclair State: .630, 17-10/.547/4-7
(C) UW-La Crosse .654, 17-9/.574/4-4
(E) Brockport: .607, 17-10/.566/6-5
(GL) Mount Union: .786, 22-6/.512/5-4
(MA) Mary Washington: .667, 18-9/.559/4-7
(NE) Eastern Connecticut: .741, 20-7/.557/2-5
(S) Centre: .808, 21-5/.530/1-1
(W) Whitworth: .778, 21-5/.544/1-3

[Titan Q]

(I can't confirm the order of these selection...just my best guess at the time.)

2018-19 Season
1. (C) Augustana: .889, 24-3/.547/8-3
2. (S) Randolph-Macon: .893, 25-3/.534/6-3
3. (NE) Hamilton: .885, 23-3/.553/4-3
4. (NE) Williams: .769, 20-6/.598/6-5
5. (C) UW-Oshkosh: .885, 23-3/.542/3-3
6. (W) Loras: .778, 21-6/.587/2-2
7. (GL) Marietta: .769, 20-6/.549/6-4
8. (MA) York (Pa.): .750, 21-7/.561/6-4
9. (W) St. Thomas: .846, 22-4/.532/4-1
10. (GL) Wooster: .821, 23-5/.543/3-4
11. (E) Rochester: .800, 20-5/.539/5-2
12. (GL) Capital: .741, 20-7/.546/6-4
13. (E) Plattsburgh State: .760, 19-6/.531/6-6
14. (AT) New Jersey City: .741, 20-7/.551/6-6
15. (NE) MIT: .846, 22-4/.555/1-0
16. (NE) Middlebury: .708, 17-7/.600/4-5
17. (MA) Salisbury: .704, 19-8/.575/4-7
18. (C) Wheaton: .704, 19-8/.574/4-5
19. (AT) Ramapo: .667, 18-9/.567/8-5
20. (C) UW-La Crosse .654, 17-9/.574/4-4

2017-18 Season
1. Hamilton (NE/NESCAC): .846 (22-4)/.573/6-3 
2. Wesleyan (NE/NESCAC): .778 (21-6)/.590/8-4   
3. UW-Platteville (CE/WIAC: .833 (20-4)/.577/4-1   
4. Whitman (WE/NWC): .962 (25-1)/.515/4-1
5. Swarthmore (MA/CC): .815 (22-5)/.542/3-4   
6. St. John's (WE/MIAC): .880 (22-3)/.524/3-2 
7. Middlebury (NE/NESCAC): .760 (19-6).590/4-6   
8. Wooster (GL/NCAC): .778 (21-6)/.565/4-3
9. Marietta (GL/OAC): .778 (21-6)/.564/4-5   
10. New Jersey City (AT/NJAC): .731 (19-7)/.567/6-4   
11. Emory (SO/UAA): .840 (21-4)/.530/4-2 
12. Christopher Newport (MA/CAC): .777 (21-6)/.546/3-2   
13. UW-Oshkosh (CE/WIAC): .741 (20-7)/.554/2-4   
14. St. Olaf (WE/MIAC): .731 (19-7)/.544/3-2   
15. Albright (MA/Commonwealth): .769 (20-6)/.544/3-2   
16. Franklin and Marshall (MA/CC): .769 (20-6)/.536/3-4 
17. North Central (CE/CCIW): .692 (18-8)/.563/4-5   
18. Illinois Wesleyan (CE/CCIW): .731 (19-7)/.550/3-6 
19. Springfield (NE/NEWMAC): .692 (18-8)/.558/4-2 
20. Brockport (E/SUNYAC): .731/.529/3-3
21. LeTourneau (SO/ASC): .852 (23-4)/.511/2-2

2016-17 Season
1. Babson (NE/NEWMAC): .926/.574/4-1
2. Williams (NE/NESCAC): .731/.592/7-4   
3. Susquehanna (MA/LAND): .800/.556/4-4
4. UW-Whitewater (C/WIAC): .769/.567/3-5
5. Rochester (E/UAA): .840/.534/4-2
6. Amherst (NE/NESCAC): .708/.598/5-5
7. Tufts (NE/NESCAC): .769/.566/4-4
8. Wesleyan (NE/NESCAC): .760/.560/4-3
9. Whitworth (W/NWC): .852/.544/0-3
10. Salisbury (MA/CAC): .741/.546/3-4
11. New Jersey City (AT/NJAC): .750/.533/5-4
12. Hope (GL/MIAA): .800/.525/2-1
13. Cabrini (AT/CSAC): .760/.531/2-3
14. Emory (S/UAA): .720/.547/2-3
15. Skidmore (E/LL): .731/.527/6-1
16. St. Lawrence (E/LL): .769/.526/3-5
17. Augustana (C/CCIW): .704/.542/2-2
18. Keene State (NE/LEC): .679/.575/3-4
19. Endicott (NE/CCC): .786/.532/1-1
20. St. Thomas (W/MIAC): .731/.530/1-2
21. UW-Oshkosh: (C/WIAC): .630/.601/5-6

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Central region was crafty in building that resume for UW-La Crosse.  Perfectly done.

From what I gathered - the Central may or may not have. Sam Atkinson said on Hoopsville just now that the national committee went through multiple versions of rankings.

Eventually the Central lets go of this but well before the national committee gets done with the rankings.

You could complain if the primary criteria should be equivalent; they should state ahead of time if there's a priority among the criteria.

They say repeatedly ... there is no priority given to any of the primary criteria.

[Gregory Sager]

Yes, they say that, but it's patentily obvious that at certain points they have to favor one criterion over another. You guys amply displayed this last night on Hoopsville in what Ryan called the "apples versus oranges" debate between Ramapo and La Roche for your group pick.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Yes, they say that, but it's patentily obvious that at certain points they have to favor one criterion over another. You guys amply displayed this last night on Hoopsville in what Ryan called the "apples versus oranges" debate between Ramapo and La Roche for your group pick.

I think there are different opinions... but I don't think they prioritize. In the past, with the SOS metric I think they had gotten into some prioritization ... but I don't think they are there as much any more.

I will say this ... Ramapo had a strong resume in all but one point compared to La Roche. Ramapo - as I put it - had a meatier resume. That looks better than just winning games according to the committee ... but I am not sure you could put your finger on which part.

[Greek Tragedy]

In contrast, Point had a winning% of .667 (La Crosse .654), SOS of .590 (.574) and 2-9 (4-4) vRRO. La Crosse was also 2-0 vs Point.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I think Ramapo belonged and La Roche, we found out, wasn't on the board.  If you're looking at Montclair, ECSU, Brockport, Mt. Union, Whitworth, Centre, Mary Washington, and La Crosse, I'd pick Centre, but I think LaCrosse might be the next highest contender there.  It's close.

[Gregory Sager]

Yes, they say that, but it's patentily obvious that at certain points they have to favor one criterion over another. You guys amply displayed this last night on Hoopsville in what Ryan called the "apples versus oranges" debate between Ramapo and La Roche for your group pick.

I think there are different opinions... but I don't think they prioritize. In the past, with the SOS metric I think they had gotten into some prioritization ... but I don't think they are there as much any more.

I will say this ... Ramapo had a strong resume in all but one point compared to La Roche. Ramapo - as I put it - had a meatier resume. That looks better than just winning games according to the committee ... but I am not sure you could put your finger on which part.

Well, whether it's SOS or vRRO that they're leaning towards, or even if it's both, they're prioritizing them over WP ... which is my point. At some point the committee has to pick a lane and stay in it in terms of which criterion trumps another criterion in a given comparison.

[Smitty Oom]

I think Ramapo belonged and La Roche, we found out, wasn't on the board.  If you're looking at Montclair, ECSU, Brockport, Mt. Union, Whitworth, Centre, Mary Washington, and La Crosse, I'd pick Centre, but I think LaCrosse might be the next highest contender there.  It's close.

I personally think that Whitworth and Centre have a very similar resume. What do you guys think that seperates Centre from Whitworth by a significant amount?

[Smitty Oom]

I think Ramapo belonged and La Roche, we found out, wasn't on the board.  If you're looking at Montclair, ECSU, Brockport, Mt. Union, Whitworth, Centre, Mary Washington, and La Crosse, I'd pick Centre, but I think LaCrosse might be the next highest contender there.  It's close.

I personally think that Whitworth and Centre have a very similar resume. What do you guys think that seperates Centre from Whitworth by a significant amount?

Secondary criteria - ncSOS under .500 definitely is working against them. Answered on Hoopsville.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Yes, they say that, but it's patentily obvious that at certain points they have to favor one criterion over another. You guys amply displayed this last night on Hoopsville in what Ryan called the "apples versus oranges" debate between Ramapo and La Roche for your group pick.

I think there are different opinions... but I don't think they prioritize. In the past, with the SOS metric I think they had gotten into some prioritization ... but I don't think they are there as much any more.

I will say this ... Ramapo had a strong resume in all but one point compared to La Roche. Ramapo - as I put it - had a meatier resume. That looks better than just winning games according to the committee ... but I am not sure you could put your finger on which part.

Well, whether it's SOS or vRRO that they're leaning towards, or even if it's both, they're prioritizing them over WP ... which is my point. At some point the committee has to pick a lane and stay in it in terms of which criterion trumps another criterion in a given comparison.

The whole point ... is that the committee is open minded enough NOT to pick a lane. The whole point of removing the SOS metric was that they were getting themselves into a lane.

[Titan Q]

Biggest takeaway for me on the Sam Atkinson Hoopsville interview...

The national committee has access to a Top 100 ranking of some sort from the NCAA, and uses this quite a bit it sounds like.  Sam referred a few times to record vs the top 50 and top 100 (I think when talking about UW-La Crosse and Ramapo).

Seems like this should be mentioned in the primary criteria.  It's the first time I have heard of this - was kind of a big surprise to me.  (It's very possible I have just missed this somewhere along the way.)

I like the concept, by the way.  His point was that RRO from region to region is different...so looking at record vs top 50 and top 100 helps a lot.  Makes sense to me...I just think we should know what that ranking is.