Pool C

[Titan Q]

Now that Drew lost in the Landmark semis, I would put them in the MA slot after York is selected - in place of Muhlenberg.

Agree.  And with a similar resume.

[lmitzel]

Thing about Benedictine I don't like is all 3 of their RRO's came early and with an important starter who no longer plays for them.

Not considered but, they're not really the team they were in Nov. when they were doing really well for the most part.  They're being judged and compared as the team they once were, not team they are now.  I doubt they win all 3 of those RRO games with their current lineup.   A small flaw in D3's selection process.

Selfishly, I don't disagree. Problem is, how do you quantify that into a criteria for the selection committee to consider? If there were an easy way to rate players (think WAR or VORP or something to that effect) and consider those numbers, maybe... but then we're getting really into the weeds.

[ronk]

Thing about Benedictine I don't like is all 3 of their RRO's came early and with an important starter who no longer plays for them.

Not considered but, they're not really the team they were in Nov. when they were doing really well for the most part.  They're being judged and compared as the team they once were, not team they are now.  I doubt they win all 3 of those RRO games with their current lineup.   A small flaw in D3's selection process.

Selfishly, I don't disagree. Problem is, how do you quantify that into a criteria for the selection committee to consider? If there were an easy way to rate players (think WAR or VORP or something to that effect) and consider those numbers, maybe... but then we're getting really into the weeds.

Maybe add another multiplier to give greater weight to the 2nd half(conference schedule) of the season to reflect players lost(gained) via injury, xfer, etc. like there's a multiplier for home/away(on the men's side).

[Titan Q]

Through Thursday's games...

All possible due to Matt Snyder's great data - https://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/p/division-iii-mens-regional-rankings.html.

Important note -- some of these teams are done (ex: UW-La Crosse), while most are still alive in conference tournaments.  The teams still alive that end up as Pool C candidates will all lose one more game (meaning winning percentage will go down).

Round 1
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - UW-Platteville (WIAC): .833/.568/6-0
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - Marietta (OAC): .778/.528/3-4
MA - Johns Hopkins (CC): .880/.552/5-3
NE - Middlebury (NESCAC): .800/.572/5-2
S - Emory (UAA): .833/.559/5-1
W - St. Thomas (MIAC): .923/.545/4-2

Round 2
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - UW-Platteville (WIAC): .833/.568/6-0
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - Marietta (OAC): .778/.528/3-4
MA - Johns Hopkins (CC): .880/.552/5-3
NE - Middlebury (NESCAC): .800/.572/5-2
S - Emory (UAA): .833/.559/5-1
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 3
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - UW-Platteville (WIAC): .833/.568/6-0
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - Marietta (OAC): .778/.528/3-4
MA - York Pa. (CAC): .808/.531/1-4
NE - Middlebury (NESCAC): .800/.572/5-2
S - Emory (UAA): .833/.559/5-1
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 4
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - Elmhurst (CCIW): .808/.531/3-2
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - Marietta (OAC): .778/.528/3-4
MA - York Pa. (CAC): .808/.531/1-4
NE - Middlebury (NESCAC): .800/.572/5-2
S - Emory (UAA): .833/.559/5-1
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 5
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - Elmhurst (CCIW): .808/.531/3-2
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - Marietta (OAC): .778/.528/3-4
MA - York Pa. (CAC): .808/.531/1-4
NE - Middlebury (NESCAC): .800/.572/5-2
S - LeTourneau (ASC): .808/.552/2-4
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 6
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - Elmhurst (CCIW): .808/.531/3-2
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - Marietta (OAC): .778/.528/3-4
MA - York Pa. (CAC): .808/.531/1-4
NE - Tufts (NESCAC): .760/.584/4-4
S - LeTourneau (ASC): .808/.552/2-4
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 7
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - Elmhurst (CCIW): .808/.531/3-2
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - Marietta (OAC): .778/.528/3-4
MA - York Pa. (CAC): .808/.531/1-4
NE - WPI (NEWMAC): .760/.545/3-5
S - LeTourneau (ASC): .808/.552/2-4
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 8
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - Elmhurst (CCIW): .808/.531/3-2
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - Marietta (OAC): .778/.528/3-4
MA - York Pa. (CAC): .808/.531/1-4
NE - WPI (NEWMAC): .760/.545/3-5
S - Virginia Wesleyan (ODAC): .833/.511/2-1
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 9
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - UW-La Crosse (WIAC): .778/.541/3-5
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - Marietta (OAC): .778/.528/3-4
MA - York Pa. (CAC): .808/.531/1-4
NE - WPI (NEWMAC): .760/.545/3-5
S - Virginia Wesleyan (ODAC): .833/.511/2-1
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 10
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - UW-La Crosse (WIAC): .778/.541/3-5
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - Marietta (OAC): .778/.528/3-4
MA - York Pa. (CAC): .808/.531/1-4
NE - Babson (NEWMAC): .800/.525/3-3
S - Virginia Wesleyan (ODAC): .833/.511/2-1
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 11
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - UW-Eau Claire: .704/.589/3-7
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - Marietta (OAC): .778/.528/3-4
MA - York Pa. (CAC): .808/.531/1-4
NE - Babson (NEWMAC): .800/.525/3-3
S - Virginia Wesleyan (ODAC): .833/.511/2-1
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 12
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - UW-Eau Claire: .704/.589/3-7
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - Marietta (OAC): .778/.528/3-4
MA - York Pa. (CAC): .808/.531/1-4
NE - Amherst (NESCAC): .720/.543/3-2
S - Virginia Wesleyan (ODAC): .833/.511/2-1
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 13
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - UW-Eau Claire: .704/.589/3-7
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - Marietta (OAC): .778/.528/3-4
MA - Drew (Land): .769/.528/1-1
NE - Amherst (NESCAC): .720/.543/3-2
S - Virginia Wesleyan (ODAC): .833/.511/2-1
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 14
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - UW-Eau Claire: .704/.589/3-7
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - Wooster (NCAC): .731/.561/4-3
MA - Drew (Land): .769/.528/1-1
NE - Amherst (NESCAC): .720/.543/3-2
S - Virginia Wesleyan (ODAC): .833/.511/2-1
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 15
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - UW-Eau Claire: .704/.589/3-7
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - John Carroll (OAC): .704/.526/3-3
MA - Drew (Land): .769/.528/1-1
NE - Amherst (NESCAC): .720/.543/3-2
S - Virginia Wesleyan (ODAC): .833/.511/2-1
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 16
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - Benedictine (NACC): .769/.507/3-0
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - John Carroll (OAC): .704/.526/3-3
MA - Drew (Land): .769/.528/1-1
NE - Amherst (NESCAC): .720/.543/3-2
S - Virginia Wesleyan (ODAC): .833/.511/2-1
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 17
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - Benedictine (NACC): .769/.507/3-0
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - John Carroll (OAC): .704/.526/3-3
MA - Drew (Land): .769/.528/1-1
NE - Trinity CT (NESCAC): .680/.548/3-4
S - Virginia Wesleyan (ODAC): .833/.511/2-1
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 18
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - Benedictine (NACC): .769/.507/3-0
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - John Carroll (OAC): .704/.526/3-3
MA - Drew (Land): .769/.528/1-1
NE - Trinity CT (NESCAC): .680/.548/3-4
S - Guilford (ODAC): .720/.551/2-4
W - Whitworth (NWC): .808/.527/1-2

Round 19
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - Benedictine (NACC): .769/.507/3-0
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - John Carroll (OAC): .704/.526/3-3
MA - Drew (Land): .769/.528/1-1
NE - Trinity CT (NESCAC): .680/.548/3-4
S - Guilford (ODAC): .720/.551/2-4
W - Loras (ARC): .654/.540/1-3

Round 20
AT - Eastern (MACF): .583/.563/5-5
C - Benedictine (NACC): .769/.507/3-0
E - Rochester (UAA): .667/.586/2-6
GL - John Carroll (OAC): .704/.526/3-3
MA - Drew (Land): .769/.528/1-1
NE - Trinity CT (NESCAC): .680/.548/3-4
S - East Texas Baptist (ASC): .769/.515/1-3
W - Loras (ARC): .654/.540/1-3

[Wooster Booster]

Should Wooster beat Denison tonight, but then lose to Wittenberg in tomorrow's NCAC finale, what are their chances of getting a Pool C bid?

[iwumichigander]

So you think NCC and Elmhurst and locks, so the CCIW is hoping for Augie or IWU to win the AQ to get three in. Sounds more realistic than the WIAC getting four! 

I do think Augie or IWU winning would lead to 3 CCIW teams in.

This CCIW fan hopes for more the IWU side of that than the Augie side.

Two things are self-evident at this point in time
1) you and I are one win away from the IWU side
2) you are going to be crunching numbers whilst I am sleeping 

[Greek Tragedy]

NEWMAC could get four in if Coast Guard beats WPI in the final...Springfield lost to Coast Guard and Babson lost to WPI.

[kiko]

Thing about Benedictine I don't like is all 3 of their RRO's came early and with an important starter who no longer plays for them.

Not considered but, they're not really the team they were in Nov. when they were doing really well for the most part.  They're being judged and compared as the team they once were, not team they are now.  I doubt they win all 3 of those RRO games with their current lineup.   A small flaw in D3's selection process.

Selfishly, I don't disagree. Problem is, how do you quantify that into a criteria for the selection committee to consider? If there were an easy way to rate players (think WAR or VORP or something to that effect) and consider those numbers, maybe... but then we're getting really into the weeds.

Maybe add another multiplier to give greater weight to the 2nd half(conference schedule) of the season to reflect players lost(gained) via injury, xfer, etc. like there's a multiplier for home/away(on the men's side).

Why should the second half count more than the first?  The tournament is a reward for a team's entire body of work.

[Greek Tragedy]

I agree with kiko here. Doesn't D1 factor in the last 10 games or something like that? So in the last month, a win should equal two points why December games should only equal one?

[Onward on, John Carroll]

I agree with kiko here. Doesn't D1 factor in the last 10 games or something like that? So in the last month, a win should equal two points why December games should only equal one?

Not anymore. They got ride of that criteria a year or two back.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24445390/ncaa-announces-new-ranking-system-rpi

[Smitty Oom]

Thing about Benedictine I don't like is all 3 of their RRO's came early and with an important starter who no longer plays for them.

Not considered but, they're not really the team they were in Nov. when they were doing really well for the most part.  They're being judged and compared as the team they once were, not team they are now.  I doubt they win all 3 of those RRO games with their current lineup.   A small flaw in D3's selection process.

Selfishly, I don't disagree. Problem is, how do you quantify that into a criteria for the selection committee to consider? If there were an easy way to rate players (think WAR or VORP or something to that effect) and consider those numbers, maybe... but then we're getting really into the weeds.

Maybe add another multiplier to give greater weight to the 2nd half(conference schedule) of the season to reflect players lost(gained) via injury, xfer, etc. like there's a multiplier for home/away(on the men's side).

Why should the second half count more than the first?  The tournament is a reward for a team's entire body of work.

Because the tournament is played at the end of the year. And inevitably, there will be teams that are playing better towards the end of the season and teams that are not playing their best basketball at the end of the season. And if we want the best 64 teams in the tournament, we would want the teams that are playing very well in the tournament. Not saying the first games should totally be discounted, they should still definitely count, but a small multiplier sounds like a good idea to me, in theory. This way the entire body of work is being counted, just with a little more emphasis on the latter part of the season.

Now with this said, I would definitely need a working simulation to see if I actually do agree with it.

[TheOsprey]

I thought the Div. I  committee used teams record in their last 10 games as a gauge.  At least, I seen that criteria in the past during bracket selections.

[Onward on, John Carroll]

I thought the Div. I  committee used teams record in their last 10 games as a gauge.  At least, I seen that criteria in the past during bracket selections.

See above. They used to but do not anymore (or, more accurately, are not supposed to.... who knows what some of these members actually do and what influences them).

[TheOsprey]

Sorry, I missed that prior post.  Personally,  I want the hottest teams and the teams not missing any key players due to injury.

[Greek Tragedy]

That's ridiculous. So it's a team's fault if their best player gets hurt?

Also, the tournament has never been about the best teams. If that was the case, some conferences would never get one bid.

You want the best rep from each conference? Conference tourneys don't even guarantee that anymore.