Pool C

magicman · February 14, 2009, 02:10:31 AM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2009, 10:53:55 PM
ESPN.com probably has people who know college basketball better than Fox does. At ESPN they know this is the way it's been done the past couple years. At Fox they keep wondering what this sport is that North Carolina and Duke are good at.

Boy, isn't that the truth!

Dark Knight · February 14, 2009, 08:02:04 AM

Quote from: Titan Q on February 12, 2009, 06:40:49 PM
Through Sunday, 2/8, here is the Massey Index top 60 by region...

http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2009&sub=III&mid=6

West (19)
Midwest (13)
South (11)
Great Lakes (9)
East (3)
Mid-Atlantic (2)
Northeast (2)
Atlantic (1)

Interesting. The four west regions have 88% of the top 60 and the four east regions have 12%.

If there is any regional discrepancy to try to address in the pool C criteria, I'd think it would be this one.

Ralph Turner · February 14, 2009, 07:16:55 PM

Great research, Titan Q!

ronk · February 15, 2009, 01:37:42 AM

Regional rankings list Trinity(Tex) & Augustana; suppose they end up #1 Pool C candidates in their respective regions.
Potential problem: handbook lists among selection reps the coach of Trinity and the AD of Augustana. Are (1)these reps eliminated from Pool C deliberation as long as their schools are on the table as the #1 regional rep, or,earlier, (2)may they rank the region to which they belong which rankings are used in the Pool C deliberations, or (3) do they participate in the tournament bracketing if their schools are chosen, whether via Pool A/C?
Just wondering where the lines are drawn, if any, or do we rely on integrity of the reps?

Ralph Turner · February 15, 2009, 01:44:02 AM

The coaches will recuse themselves from the process.

Coach Cunningham has too much integrity to ruin the system.

He wants a process that is enduring and consistent with the highest tenets of professionalism.

Being the highest Pool C bid in each region is probably the easiest. You virtually come off first.

As for bracketing, Trinity is either hosting a three-pod or a four-pod or being flown somewhere else.

As for Augie, there are too many other candidates to host first round games in his area for that to be a problem. Besides there are other considerations, such as in-conference members that will affect the bracketing in that part of the country.

Pat Coleman · February 15, 2009, 01:45:25 AM

I think they are allowed to participate in 2, only when their team is not being discussed.

I would suspect they are allowed to participate in the bracketing process when their part of the country is not being worked on.

I can't imagine they are allowed to participate in 1, since that goes against how it's been described to us.

pabegg · February 16, 2009, 09:41:33 AM

OK, here we go for this week:

Reg Conf Rank Prior RPI OWP OOWP School Natl Status Reg Overall

NE 16 01 01 0.6132 0.5143 0.5196 Middlebury 008 A w C 19-2 21-3
NE 17 02 03 0.6358 0.5727 0.5408 Worcester Polytech 009 A w C 18-3 18-4
NE 13 03 02 0.6148 0.5373 0.5274 Mass-Dartmouth 014 A w C 18-3 20-3
NE 18 04 04 0.5892 0.4594 0.4858 Elms 015 B 1 20-1 21-1
NE 13 05 07 0.6126 0.5481 0.5279 Rhode Island College 023 C 6 19-4 19-4
NE 14 06 06 0.6046 0.5220 0.5325 Bridgewater State 025 A w C 16-3 17-5
NE 14 07 05 0.5973 0.5455 0.5256 Salem State 032 C 9 17-5 18-5
NE 16 08 08 0.5929 0.5265 0.5459 Amherst 035 C 11 17-5 19-5
NE 11 09 10 0.5594 0.4399 0.4943 University of New England 042 A w C 19-3 20-3
NE 16 10 13 0.5908 0.5671 0.5292 Colby 049 C 20 14-6 17-7
NE 17 11 09 0.5702 0.5168 0.5329 MIT 055 C 24 15-6 16-8
NE 16 12 11 0.5884 0.5818 0.5234 Bowdoin 058 C 27 16-8 16-8
NE 90 13 nr 0.6049 0.6229 0.5375 Brandeis 060 C 28 14-8 14-8

EA 21 01 01 0.6417 0.5375 0.5395 Ithaca 003 A w C 20-1 22-1
EA 24 02 02 0.6135 0.5406 0.5062 Hamilton 012 C 2 13-2 15-6
EA 24 03 03 0.6212 0.5820 0.5210 St. Lawrence 024 A w C 16-4 18-4
EA 21 04 04 0.5785 0.5460 0.5378 Rochester Tech 063 C 31 13-6 17-6
EA 90 05 05 0.5787 0.5466 0.5399 Rochester 064 C 32 15-7 15-7
EA 21 06 08 0.5841 0.5850 0.5141 Utica 067 C 34 15-8 15-8
EA 23 07 nr 0.5557 0.4845 0.5265 Geneseo State 069 A third 16-6 17-6
EA 21 08 07 0.5740 0.5663 0.5318 St. John Fisher 079 12-7 15-7

AT 32 01 01 0.6110 0.5139 0.5117 Richard Stockton 011 A w C 19-2 22-2
AT 33 02 02 0.5872 0.4755 0.4849 SUNY-Farmingdale 022 A w C 21-2 21-2
AT 31 03 05 0.5626 0.4501 0.4865 Baruch 039 A w C 19-3 21-4
AT 33 04 03 0.5601 0.4423 0.4923 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 040 C 14 19-3 20-3
AT 32 05 04 0.5730 0.4976 0.5051 William Paterson 043 C 15 19-5 19-5
AT 32 06 06 0.5737 0.5235 0.4977 Montclair State 047 C 19 15-5 19-5
AT 31 07 07 0.5340 0.4325 0.4883 Brooklyn 080 18-5 19-5
AT 31 08 08 0.5149 0.4599 0.4878 Lehman 129 15-8 17-8

MA 45 01 01 0.6262 0.5287 0.5383 Franklin and Marshall 006 A w C 20-2 21-2
MA 41 02 02 0.5809 0.4636 0.5014 St. Mary's (Md.) 028 A w C 17-2 20-4
MA 45 03 03 0.5948 0.5473 0.5344 McDaniel 036 C 12 15-5 17-6
MA 42 04 06 0.5892 0.5435 0.5078 Widener 041 A w C 16-5 18-5
MA 43 05 04 0.5677 0.4917 0.5147 DeSales 048 A second 17-5 18-5
MA 41 06 05 0.5563 0.4478 0.5063 Wesley 050 C 21 14-3 16-7
MA 44 07 08 0.5483 0.4464 0.4907 Gwynedd-Mercy 059 A second 17-4 18-5
MA 46 08 10 0.5512 0.4862 0.4935 Scranton 072 B 2 17-6 18-6
MA 44 09 09 0.5485 0.4908 0.4734 Cabrini 073 C 38 17-6 17-6
MA 46 10 11 0.5411 0.4883 0.4878 Susquehanna 091 B 3 14-6 16-7
MA 45 11 07 0.5549 0.5222 0.5387 Gettysburg 099 14-8 14-8

SO 51 01 02 0.6039 0.5221 0.5142 Texas-Dallas 019 A w C 18-3 20-3
SO 53 02 04 0.5914 0.4817 0.5073 Randolph-Macon 021 C 5 17-2 19-5
SO 54 03 01 0.5999 0.5199 0.5098 Trinity (Texas) 026 A w C 17-3 20-3
SO 54 04 05 0.6050 0.5697 0.5026 Centre 029 C 7 14-4 18-4
SO 53 05 03 0.5939 0.5222 0.5131 Guilford 030 A w C 18-4 19-4
SO 51 06 09 0.5796 0.5335 0.5014 Mississippi College 045 C 17 15-5 17-5
SO 51 07 06 0.5652 0.5016 0.5077 McMurry 052 C 22 15-5 16-7
SO 54 08 07 0.5678 0.5195 0.5103 DePauw 056 C 25 13-5 17-6
SO 55 09 nr 0.5587 0.5063 0.5000 Averett 065 A third 135 16-8
SO 51 10 08 0.5610 0.5148 0.5145 LeTourneau 066 C 33 14-6 15-8
SO 51 11 nr 0.5612 0.5209 0.5075 Mary Hardin-Baylor 070 C 36 167 16-7

GL 64 01 01 0.6193 0.5522 0.5154 Capital 013 A w C 18-3 20-3
GL 64 02 02 0.6115 0.5416 0.5208 John Carroll 018 C 4 16-3 18-4
GL 62 03 04 0.5876 0.4686 0.4965 Calvin 020 A w C 11-1 16-6
GL 63 04 05 0.5828 0.5133 0.5047 Wooster 037 A w C 16-4 17-6
GL 90 05 03 0.5921 0.5335 0.5366 Carnegie Mellon 038 C 13 13-4 17-5
GL 63 06 06 0.5798 0.5315 0.5063 Ohio Wesleyan 044 C 16 15-5 16-6
GL 64 07 08 0.5716 0.5334 0.5194 Ohio Northern 057 C 26 14-6 16-7
GL 62 08 07 0.5692 0.5446 0.4951 Hope 068 C 35 9-4 16-7
GL 61 09 09 0.5412 0.4724 0.4831 Penn State-Behrend 082 14-5 16-7

MW 90 01 01 0.6436 0.5397 0.5424 Washington U. 001 A in 20-1 21-1
MW 71 02 02 0.6469 0.5914 0.5625 Wheaton (Ill.) 010 A w C 16-3 20-3
MW 72 03 03 0.6082 0.5533 0.5028 Transylvania 027 A w C 14-3 17-5
MW 71 04 05 0.6272 0.6068 0.5585 North Central 031 C 8 14-5 16-7
MW 71 05 04 0.6145 0.5825 0.5538 Elmhurst 034 C 10 17-6 17-6
MW 74 06 06 0.5570 0.4602 0.4982 St. Norbert 051 A second 17-4 18-4
MW 71 07 07 0.5859 0.5407 0.5666 Augustana 053 C 23 16-7 17-7
MW 74 08 nr 0.5491 0.4925 0.4971 Lawrence 078 15-6 15-6
MW 71 09 10 0.5993 0.6266 0.5558 Carthage 081 10-7 15-8
MW 74 10 11 0.5435 0.4804 0.4912 Grinnell 083 135 16-6
MW 74 11 09 0.5521 0.5145 0.5127 Carroll 089 147 14-7

WE 82 01 01 0.6330 0.5061 0.5199 St. Thomas 002 A w C 22-0 23-0
WE 83 02 03 0.6249 0.4799 0.5399 Puget Sound 004 A w C 18-0 21-2
WE 86 03 02 0.6532 0.5984 0.5525 UW-Stevens Point 005 C 1 19-3 20-3
WE 86 04 05 0.6522 0.5929 0.5595 UW-Whitewater 007 A w C 19-3 20-3
WE 86 05 04 0.6246 0.5483 0.5683 UW-Platteville 016 C 3 15-3 20-3
WE 81 06 06 0.5941 0.4764 0.5188 Buena Vista 017 A w C 19-2 22-2
WE 83 07 07 0.5738 0.5128 0.5195 Whitworth 046 C 18 15-5 18-5
WE 84 08 10 0.5561 0.4833 0.4800 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 054 A second 14-4 16-6
WE 81 09 11 0.5594 0.5017 0.5068 Cornell 062 C 30 16-6 18-6
WE 82 10 09 0.5565 0.5024 0.5068 Bethel 071 C 37 15-6 17-6
WE 86 11 08 0.5790 0.5758 0.5329 UW-Eau Claire 076 12-7 14-9

Reg Region
Conf Conference number
Rank Regional ranking
Prior Prior regional ranking
School
Natl National ranking based on regional results
Status
B + number: Pool B ranking (top 4 in tournament)
C + number: Pool C ranking of 18 teams in tournament
C second: second tier Pool C (spots 19-28)
C third: third tier Pool C (spots 29-38)
A in: clinched Pool A bid
A w C: Pool A, in Pool C range (1 to 18)
A second: Pool A, in second tier Pool C
A third: Pool A, in third tier Pool C
A: lower level Pool A
blank: lower level Pool C

The likely Pool C conferences where the likely Pool A changed are the WIAC (Stevens Point to Whitewater) and MASCAC (Salem State to Bridgewater State).

Bad weeks for RIT (12th to 31st), Rochester (16th to 32nd), MIT (15th to 24th), Wesley (13th to 21st), and Gettysburg (23rd to out of contention).

Good weeks for North Central (17th to 8th), Ohio Wesleyan (24th to 16th), Mississippi College (33rd to 17th), Montclair State (27th to 19th), and Colby (35th to 20th).

Since we're starting conference tournament play, that means that some teams have at most one loss ahead of them. For example, this means that Middlebury has a guaranteed Pool C spot and Amherst will be at worst on the bubble.

In addition, we've reached the point where some teams have done enough that they'd be in even if they lose out. I think that list includes Ithaca, Franklin and Marshall, Richard Stockton, St. Thomas, and Puget Sound.

Pool B remains with Elms as a lock, and Scranton and Susquehanna leading the pack for the other 2.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · February 16, 2009, 12:53:58 PM

So, apparently, I now have the ability to edit polls? Or have I had that ability for a while and noticed it?

Pat Coleman · February 16, 2009, 01:09:59 PM

If that's a poll you created, yes, you probably have had that ability for a while. If it's someone else's poll then that came more recently, I think.

Coach C · February 16, 2009, 09:26:47 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2009, 01:45:25 AM
I think they are allowed to participate in 2, only when their team is not being discussed.

I would suspect they are allowed to participate in the bracketing process when their part of the country is not being worked on.

I can't imagine they are allowed to participate in 1, since that goes against how it's been described to us.

Unless the rules hav recently changed, you are correct Mr. Coleman.

RustCollege · February 16, 2009, 10:30:07 PM

someone told me Rust College had a very slim chance 2 make the playoffs

Coach C · February 16, 2009, 10:39:55 PM

Well first, if Rust was going to possibly make the playoffs, it would be as a Pool B, not a Pool C. And the only way they can make it as a Pool B is if about 10 Pool B teams suddenly pull out of the NCAA in the next week.

Greek Tragedy · February 17, 2009, 03:03:53 AM

They are a Pool B candidate first and if they don't get one of the three bids they move into Pool C. Not sure if any Pool B eligible team ever missed out and then got selected as a Pool C.

Greek Tragedy · February 17, 2009, 03:09:50 AM

Re: Poll. Tough choice there. Do teams put up NCAA Tournament Participant banners in the gym? I think I'd rather have a Conference Champion banner. I guess they have Conference Tournament Champion banners!

SLP-O-8 · February 17, 2009, 03:29:11 AM

I was just thinking about with the stacked West Region and it got me thinking about hosting. Can like St Thomas host 1st/2nd round games and like the Sweet 16 round as well. I just used them as an example.