Pool C

[Greek Tragedy]

Update when results come in.

I left out the regular season records so it fits.

RED means they have lost, regular season/conference tourney is complete and they are Pool C eligible.

BLUE means they have won the Pool A bid and have been removed from the regional rankings.

Atlantic	REG	CONF.	RESULTS
Farmingdale State	23-2	SKY	BEAT SUNY-Old Westbury; plays St. Joseph's (L.I.) in SKY Finals on Sat.
Monclair State	16-5	NJAC	LOST to Rutgers-Newark in NJAC semis
William Paterson	20-6	NJAC	LOST to Richard Stockton in NJAC semis
Baruch	20-3	CUNYAC	BEAT Lehman; LOST to Brooklyn in CUNYAC Final.
EAST	REG	CONF	RESULTS
Ithaca	22-1	E8	Plays Nazareth in E8 semis on Sat.
St. Lawrence	17-5	LL	BEAT Clarkson; plays RPI in Liberty League Final on Sat.
Hamilton	16-2	LL	LOST to RPI   in LL semis
Utica	17-8	E8	Plays Rochester Tech in E8 semis on Sat.
Rochester	16-8	UAA	Plays Carnegie Mellon on Sat.
Great Lakes	REG	CONF	RESULTS
John Carroll	18-3	OAC	BEAT Heidelberg; BEAT Muskingum; plays Capital in OAC Final on Sat.
Capital	20-3	OAC	BEAT Mount Union, BEAT Ohio Northern; plays John Carroll in OAC Final on Sat.
Carnegie Mellon	14-5	UAA	Plays Rochester on Sat.
Wooster	18-4	NCAC	BEAT Denison; BEAT Kenyon; plays Wabash in NCAC Final on Sat.
Calvin	12-2	MIAA	BEAT Trine; BEAT Olivet; plays Hope in MIAA Final on Sat.
Ohio Wesleyan	16-6	NCAC	LOST to Allegheny in NCAC quarterfinals
Middle Atlantic	REG	CONF	RESULTS
St. Mary's (Md)	18-2	CAC	LOST to Marymount in CAC semis
Franklin & Marshall	20-4	CC	Plays Muhlenberg in CC semis on Sat.
DeSales	18-5	MACF	BEAT Wilkes; plays Manhattanville in MACF Final on Sat.
Widener	18-5	MACC	BEAT Messiah; plays Elizabethtown in MACC Final on Sat.
McDaniel	16-6	CC	Plays Gettysburg in CC semis on Sat.
Cabrini	19-6	CSAC	BEAT Keystone; LOST to Gwynedd-Mercy in CSAC Final.
Scranton	18-6	LAND	BEAT Catholic; plays Susquehanna in LAND Final on Sat.
Midwest	REG	CONF	RESULTS
Wheaton (IL)	18-3	CCIW	BEAT North Central (Ill); plays Elmhurst in CCIW Final on Sat.
Washington U.	21-2	UAA	Plays Chicago on Sat.
Elmhurst	19-6	CCIW	BEAT Augustana; plays Wheaton (IL) in CCIW Final on Sat.
Transylvania	16-3	HCAC	BEAT Anderson;plays Franklin in HCAC Final on Sat.
Lawrence	17-6	MWC	BEAT Carroll; plays Grinnell in MWC Final on Sat.
Augustana	17-7	CCIW	LOST to Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Carroll	16-7	MWC	LOST to Lawrence in MWC semis
North Central (IL)	14-7	CCIW	LOST to Wheaton (IL) in CCIW semis.
Northeast	REG	CONF	RESULTS
Worcester Tech	20-3	NEWMAC	Plays Springfield in NEWMAC semis on Sat.
Middlebury	20-2	NESCAC	Plays Bowdoin in NESCAC semis on Sat.
Elms	23-1	NECC	BEAT Wheelock; plays Becker in NECC Final on Sat.
Rhode Island Coll.	21-4	LEC	BEAT Southern Maine; BEAT Keene State; plays Mass-Dartmouth in LEC Final on Sat.
Mass-Dartmouth	20-3	LEC	BEAT Mass-Boston; BEAT Western Connecticut; plays RIC in LEC Final on Sat.
Salem State	19-5	MASCAC	BEAT Framingham State; Plays Bridgewater State in MASCAC Final on Sat.
Bridgewater State	17-4	MASCAC	BEAT Westfield State; plays Salem State in MASCAC Final on Sat.
Brandeis	16-8	UAA	Plays New York University on Sat.
Amherst	18-5	NESCAC	Plays Williams in NESCAC semis on Sat.
Bowdoin	17-8	NESCAC	Plays Middlebury in NESCAC semis on Sat.
South	REG	CONF	RESULTS
Trinity (Texas)	19-3	SCAC	BEAT Sewanee; plays Southwestern in SCAC semis on Sat.
Texas-Dallas	19-4	ASC	BEAT Sul Ross State; plays Mary Hardin-Baylor in ASC semis on Sat.
Guilford	20-4	ODAC	LOST to Washington and Lee in ODAC quarters.
Randolph-Macon	18-2	ODAC	LOST Virginia Wesleyan in ODAC quarters.
Centre	16-4	SCAC	BEAT Austin; plays Hendrix in SCAC semis on Sat.
McMurry	17-5	ASC	BEAT Texas-Tyler; plays Mississippi College in ASC semis on Sat.
DePauw	15-5	SCAC	LOST Southwestern in SCAC quarters.
Roanoke	14-6	ODAC	LOST Hampden-Sydney in ODAC quarters.
West	REG	CONF	RESULTS
St. Thomas	24-0	MIAC	BEAT Gustavus Adolphus; plays Bethel in MIAC Final on Sat.
Puget Sound	20-0	NWC	BEAT Lewis and Clark; plays Whitworth in NWC Final on Sat.
UW-Stevens Point	20-4	WIAC	BEAT Oshkosh; plays Platteville in WIAC Final on Sat.
UW-Whitewater	20-4	WIAC	BEAT River Falls; LOST to Platteville
UW-Platteville	16-4	WIAC	BEAT Whitewater; plays Stevens Point in WIAC Final on Sat.
Buena Vista	20-2	IIAC	LOST to Wartburg in IIAC semis
CMS	16-4	SCIAC	BEAT Caltech; BEAT Cal. Lutheran; plays Ponoma-Pitzer in SCIAC Final on Sat.
Whitworth	18-5	NWC	BEAT Linfield; plays Puget Sound in NWC Final on Sat.
POOL A BIDS
TEAM	REG	CONF	RESULTS
Washington U.	21-2	UAA	Plays Chicago on Sat.
Richard Stockton	20-2	NJAC	BEAT William Paterson; BEAT Rutgers-Newark in NJAC Final
Gwynedd-Mercy	19-4	CSAC	BEAT Baptist Bible; BEAT Cabrini CSAC Final.
Brooklyn	23-5*	CUNYAC	BEAT York (N.Y.); BEAT Baruch in CUNYAC Final.

* overall record

[Pat Coleman]

Brooklyn also won an AQ tonight.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Greg, deep down, I agree with you.  But after winning 81% of their non-con games, if the CCIW ends up a 1-team league I'm gonna really get upset with the criteria!

If there is any room for common sense in the criteria, Elmhurst has to be in.

On further thought, based on Wednesday's regional rankings, IF Elmhurst is a C candidate, they will almost certainly be the first C in the Midwest.  Are you seriously suggesting that the Midwest will have zero C's?

[sac]

Greg, deep down, I agree with you.  But after winning 81% of their non-con games, if the CCIW ends up a 1-team league I'm gonna really get upset with the criteria!

If there is any room for common sense in the criteria, Elmhurst has to be in.

On further thought, based on Wednesday's regional rankings, IF Elmhurst is a C candidate, they will almost certainly be the first C in the Midwest.  Are you seriously suggesting that the Midwest will have zero C's?

Is this an out of body experience or are you fully aware you just asked a question while quoting yourself?   

[Pat Coleman]

Greg, deep down, I agree with you.  But after winning 81% of their non-con games, if the CCIW ends up a 1-team league I'm gonna really get upset with the criteria!

If there is any room for common sense in the criteria, Elmhurst has to be in.

On further thought, based on Wednesday's regional rankings, IF Elmhurst is a C candidate, they will almost certainly be the first C in the Midwest.  Are you seriously suggesting that the Midwest will have zero C's?

Not sure who you're talking to, but if it's Sac, then all he's suggesting is that common sense is not what's going to get Elmhurst in.

[Greek Tragedy]

Brooklyn also won an AQ tonight.

Yeah, I know...but I was strictly using the teams from the last public regional rankings.  I don't plan on putting the NathCon's AQ on the list below, for example. 

I also noted on Baruch's line that they lost to Brooklyn in the CUNYAC Final, thus giving the AQ to Brooklyn.

[Ralph Turner]

I think that Elmhurst is a lock as a "C".  Look at the carnage of the other regions.

MW#3 should lose to MW#1.  All other Pool C's from the Midwest are farther down.

The Atlantic is decimated.  The bottom fell out of the South.  The West is a lock for the top schools and BV shot themselves in the foot.

The Northeast will have a few, but we have had few surprises there.

The Mid-Atlantic has cooperated, so far.  The Great Lakes has few surprises at the top.

St Lawrence needs to take care of business in the East.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Greg, deep down, I agree with you.  But after winning 81% of their non-con games, if the CCIW ends up a 1-team league I'm gonna really get upset with the criteria!

If there is any room for common sense in the criteria, Elmhurst has to be in.

On further thought, based on Wednesday's regional rankings, IF Elmhurst is a C candidate, they will almost certainly be the first C in the Midwest.  Are you seriously suggesting that the Midwest will have zero C's?

Not sure who you're talking to, but if it's Sac, then all he's suggesting is that common sense is not what's going to get Elmhurst in.

I guess I was still talking to Greg (and second-guessing my agreement with him)!

[pbrooks3]

Any remote chance Carroll had is now gone as # 25 Lawrence beats Carroll 90-66 in the first Midwest Conference semi-final.

LU still has a chance if they would slip up to Grinnell or St. Norbert tomorrow.

I believe roadkill describes it appropriately!

[smcmfan]

This is for the gurus like Coleman and Abegg...I am an avid Smcm fan and have been for the last couple years since they have been building the program up. I would like to know does smcm still have a chance at getting into the tourney. They are first in their region and were considered to host the first and maybe second round i heard. I just wanted to know what you think, can they still get a pool c bid even after losing in the semis of their conf. tourney?

[Titan Q]

There is no room for common sense........its all numbers.

That is mostly true, but not completely.  Wheaton got in last year on common sense.  I talked to members of the Midwest committee and national committee last year in Salem on how that shook up, and it was 100% common sense-based.

There are some really, really good basketball guys involved in this process.  While they are constrained by the NCAA's criteria to a large degree, they also try their best to inject a little common sense where possible.

2009 committee members on the final page...

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/basketball/2009/3_mbasketball_handbook.pdf

[ziggy]

Greg, deep down, I agree with you.  But after winning 81% of their non-con games, if the CCIW ends up a 1-team league I'm gonna really get upset with the criteria!

If there is any room for common sense in the criteria, Elmhurst has to be in.

On further thought, based on Wednesday's regional rankings, IF Elmhurst is a C candidate, they will almost certainly be the first C in the Midwest.  Are you seriously suggesting that the Midwest will have zero C's?

Is this an out of body experience or are you fully aware you just asked a question while quoting yourself?   

Just don't use an easy button to find a lost easy button.

[Titan Q]

I posted this on the CCIW board, but it applies to discussion here too...

The real interesting part is who becomes Pool C #2 from the Midwest........the even more interesting part is we'll never see these final rankings.  yay! NCAA!

Outstanding point.  As Old School posted yesterday...


RED means they have lost, regular season/conference tourney is complete and they are Pool C eligible.

BLUE means they have won the Pool A bid and have been removed from the regional rankings.

Midwest	REG	CONF	RESULTS
Wheaton (IL)	18-3	CCIW	BEAT North Central (Ill); plays Elmhurst in CCIW Final on Sat.
Washington U.	21-2	UAA	Plays Chicago on Sat.
Elmhurst	19-6	CCIW	BEAT Augustana; plays Wheaton (IL) in CCIW Final on Sat.
Transylvania	16-3	HCAC	BEAT Anderson;plays Franklin in HCAC Final on Sat.
Lawrence	17-6	MWC	BEAT Carroll; plays Grinnell in MWC Final on Sat.
Augustana	17-7	CCIW	LOST to Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Carroll	16-7	MWC	LOST to Lawrence in MWC semis
North Central (IL)	14-7	CCIW	LOST to Wheaton (IL) in CCIW semis.

If Transylvania beats Franklin at home tomorrow in the HCAC conference tournament title game, and Lawrence beats Grinnell, I think Augustana probably ends up as the Midwest's #2-rated Pool C team - Carroll and NCC lost yesterday too.  The Midwest committee will have to make that decision tomorrow, and it is a critical one.  To be discussed for a Pool C bid, you have to get to the table, and I do not see any Midwest Pool C candidate after the top 2 getting to the table.

If Augustana does end up the #2 Pool C candidate from the Midwest, Viking fans may not want to completely give up hope quite yet.  The odds would still be long, as most likely the Midwest's #2 Pool C candidate is going to be left sitting on the table from the time Elmhurst is put in (somewhere around Pool C slot #10 of 18) - or from the time Wheaton is put in, much higher, if that is the case - to the time Pool C #18 is selected.  But maybe at the national level they discuss the strength of the Midwest region this year (the region has been strong this year).   

Also remember, last year the Midwest committee did a terrific job of giving the region its best chance to get 2 Pool C bids.  Wash U, which lost to Chicago one year ago today and did not win the UAA, was a lock as the Midwest's top Pool C candidate.  But in the final ranking, the MW committee made a very important decision - they ranked Wheaton ahead of IWU, even though IWU was 3-0 vs Wheaton.  As a Pool C candidate, IWU had no chance to get in - the in-region record (15-9) just was not competitive.  But Wheaton stood a fighting chance at the national level, so they ranked Wheaton ahead of IWU to give the region a fighting chance at another Pool C.  If they do the same this year (assuming Transy and Lawrence win tonight), they'll put Augustana in that slot.

Again, the odds are that the Midwest's #2 Pool candidate is not getting in, but there will at least be a faint heartbeat for that team. 

(Transylvania losing to Franklin today would be the final knockout blow for Augie - they'd become that #2.)

[Ralph Turner]

Sac, Titan Q and Old School, I think that you make the case for the Augie getting the 17th or 18th Pool C bid.

[Greek Tragedy]

Don't worry about the MWC teams.  There's no question Carroll won't be going anywhere...same with Grinnell if they lose since they aren't even in the rankings.  If Larry U loses today, I think they might actually drop behind Augustana since the Augies lost to a higher ranking team (though LU would have one more win, going 1-1 this week).

Elmhurst is a lock for being top dog in the MW rankings, if Transy wins.  Actually, a Lawrence faithful would like to have Elmhurst win tonight so Wheaton can be one of the 1st Pool C bids to be taken, thus putting Lawrence at the table sooner.  But like I said, Augie might jump ahead of them.