Pool C

[KnightSlappy]

Wesleyan lost to Middlebury

WPI lost to Springfield.

maybe this was enough to change their regional position.  ? ? ?

I think that can be the only explanation, that WPI got blocked, and they didn't think Wesleyan should get in.

And I'll argue it's an explanation that is just as poor as WPI not being in the field. A .720 WP is one that generally passes the eyeball test and their SOS is what, top 5 percentile?

top two percent of D3.

[ziggy]

Wesleyan lost to Middlebury

WPI lost to Springfield.

maybe this was enough to change their regional position.  ? ? ?

I think that can be the only explanation, that WPI got blocked, and they didn't think Wesleyan should get in.

And I'll argue it's an explanation that is just as poor as WPI not being in the field. A .720 WP is one that generally passes the eyeball test and their SOS is what, top 5 percentile?

top two percent of D3.

I rest my case


(probably not really)

[smedindy]

I made this argument in football on why Case should have received a bid. (Though in retrospect, the committee putting in SJF was a master stroke - or just luck).

I believe the NCAC is moving away from hard / fast rules. And perhaps, again, they realize their SOS calculation isn't up to snuff.

[Pat Coleman]

Titan Q drank enough of the green kool-aid to get his IWU team into the dance, despite all the nay-sayers that didn't think they would get a bid. Good job by Q, KnightSlappy and the Guru.

The kool-aid helped me put the Titans in on my board...but so did SOS, results vs regionally ranked, and secondary criteria (wins @ Staten Island, vs Bethany).  IWU had a very strong resume outside of winning %. 

Not that we know IWU hit the board in the Midwest right after Wheaton and Transylvania (ahead of Lake Forest), I'd guess IWU got in around #16 or so.

It was certainly fun doing the selection projections.

I had IWU even higher on my board than Q did and I definitely do not drink the kool-aid. Just ask IWU fans on the board circa about 2002.

[Pat Coleman]

IWU was 17th in Massey power and 10th in SOS. I think the committee got that one right.

I also think a huge factor was their secondary criteria road wins against Staten Island and Bethany, both pool A teams.

But looking at IWU against WPI, how do you even get to the secondary criteria? It's indefensible!

I don't think you ever get to IWU vs. WPI. Seems the committee stuck Wesleyan ahead of WPI and that's where the NE at-large train derailed.

[ziggy]

I don't think you ever get to IWU vs. WPI. Seems the committee stuck Wesleyan ahead of WPI and that's where the NE at-large train derailed.

Still a problem, it just got pushed to a different part of the process...

[KnightSlappy]

I don't think you ever get to IWU vs. WPI. Seems the committee stuck Wesleyan ahead of WPI and that's where the NE at-large train derailed.

Still a problem, it just got pushed to a different part of the process...

?

WPI failed to maintain control of their ranking all the way to the ground. Happens.

[7express]

Besides, if they were just using rote criteria, there wouldn't be the need for a committee. A functional technocrat would just follow the letter of the criteria, and not try to make it the best tournament possible.

The nature of this wacky season left some teams on the sidelines in the "C" round, but as always, the best thing you can do is avoid "C" entirely. Otherwise, you let yourself open to these decisions.

The only one I'm kind of floored by is St. Joseph's getting in. Pick your alternate "C"  candidate and I bet they beat St. Joseph's seven out of ten. Alas...

Keene state beats St. Joes 10 out of 10 times.

[fritzdis]

Besides, if they were just using rote criteria, there wouldn't be the need for a committee. A functional technocrat would just follow the letter of the criteria, and not try to make it the best tournament possible.

The nature of this wacky season left some teams on the sidelines in the "C" round, but as always, the best thing you can do is avoid "C" entirely. Otherwise, you let yourself open to these decisions.

The only one I'm kind of floored by is St. Joseph's getting in. Pick your alternate "C"  candidate and I bet they beat St. Joseph's seven out of ten. Alas...

Keene state beats St. Joes 10 out of 10 times.

Care to explain this St. Joseph's result?

11/19    at Eastern Connecticut •    W, 90-76

[Greek Tragedy]

POOL C BIDS

ATL
WK3   TEAM	CON.	REG/OVERALL	WL%	SOS	RvsRR
#3   St. Joseph's (LI)*  POOLC	SKY	21-2, 21-3	0.913	0.470	1-0	0-1
#4   Richard Stockton*	NJAC	17-6, 18-7	0.739	0.523	1-3	1-1
#5   New Jersey City	NJAC	15-6, 17-7	0.714	0.554	2-3	0-0
EAST
WK3   TEAM	CON.	REG/OVERALL	WL%	SOS	RvsRR
#1   Hartwick*  POOL C	E8	22-2, 23-2	0.917	0.523	2-0	0-1
#3   Hobart*  POOL C	LL	20-4, 21-4	0.833	0.517	1-1	1-1
#4   NYU  POOL C	UAA	19-5, 19-5	0.792	0.491	2-2	1-0
#6   Nazareth	E8	17-6, 17-8	0.739	0.549	0-4	1-1
GL
WK3   TEAM	CON.	REG/OVERALL	WL%	SOS	RvsRR
#2   Wittenberg* POOL C	NCAC	18-4, 20-5	0.818	0.539	6-1	1-1
#4   Ohio Wesleyan  POOL C	NCAC	18-6, 19-6	0.750	0.554	3-5	1-1
#6   John Carroll	OAC	15-6, 18-6	0.714	0.499	1-1	0-1
MA
WK3   TEAM	CON.	REG/OVERALL	WL%	SOS	RvsRR
#3   St. Mary's (Md)*  POOL C	CAC	17-5, 19-6	0.773	0.568	1-3	0-1
#4   Keystone	CSAC	20-5, 20-5	0.800	0.490	0-2	1-1
#7   Widener	MACC	14-7, 18-7	0.667	0.565	4-4	0-1
#8   Mary Washington	CAC	16-6, 17-8	0.727	0.522	3-2	1-1
#9   Albright	MACC	13-7, 17-8	0.650	0.546	4-6	0-1
MW
WK3   TEAM	CON.	REG/OVERALL	WL%	SOS	RvsRR
#2   Wheaton (IL)  POOL C	CCIW	17-5, 19-5	0.773	0.552	4-3	2-1
#3   Transylvania*  POOL C	HCAC	21-2, 22-3	0.913	0.508	3-0	1-1
#4   Lake Forest*	MWC	19-3, 20-3	0.864	0.520	0-1	0-1
#5   Illinois Wesleyan  POOL C	CCIW	17-6, 19-6	0.739	0.538	2-4	0-1
#6   Concordia (WI)*	NATH	19-4, 20-4	0.826	0.487	1-1	1-1
#8   Augustana	CCIW	18-5, 19-5	0.783	0.466	3-4	0-2
NE
WK3   TEAM	CON.	REG/OVERALL	WL%	SOS	RvsRR
#2   Middlebury  POOL C	NESCAC	21-2, 23-2	0.913	0.564	2-2	1-1
#4   Rhode Island College  POOL C	LEC	20-5, 20-5	0.800	0.586	5-4	2-1
#5   W. Connecticut  POOL C	LEC	20-5, 20-5	0.800	0.568	6-3	0-1
#7   WPI	NEWMAC	18-6, 18-6	0.750	0.587	2-3	0-1
#8   Wesleyan (Conn)	NESCAC	20-4, 20-5	0.833	0.506	3-2	0-1
#10   Keene State	LEC	15-6, 18-7	0.714	0.573	3-4	1-1
STH
WK3   TEAM	CON.	REG/OVERALL	WL%	SOS	RvsRR
#1   Mary Hardin-Baylor*  POOL C	ASC	23-1, 24-1	0.958	0.512	3-0	1-1
#3   Birmingham-Southern*  POOL C	SCAC	21-1, 24-1	0.955	0.455	0-0	1-1
#4   Randolph-Macon  POOL C	ODAC	17-4, 20-5	0.810	0.516	3-2	1-1
#6   Emory	UAA	19-5, 19-5	0.792	0.517	2-3	0-1
#7   Hardin-Simmons	ASC	17-6, 19-6	0.739	0.523	0-3	2-1
#8   Texas-Dallas	ASC	19-4, 21-4	0.826	0.475	0-2	1-1
WST
WK3   TEAM	CON.	REG/OVERALL	WL%	SOS	RvsRR
#1   Whitewater*  POOL C	WIAC	22-3, 2-3	0.880	0.551	5-2	1-1
#4   Stevens Point  POOL C	WIAC	17-6, 19-6	0.739	0.588	4-2	1-1
#7   Gustavus Adolphus  POOL C	MIAC	18-6, 19-6	0.750	0.517	2-1	1-1
#8   Puget Sound	NWC	14-6, 19-6	0.700	0.491	3-2	1-1
#9   Whitman	NWC	16-7, 18-7	0.696	0.518	1-5	0-1

[Mr. Ypsi]

They're all in order of the last published regional rankings, except that IWU obviously jumped over Lake Forest.  (And there is speculation that Wesleyan jumped WPI and blocked them from ever reaching the table; I guess we'll see, if they do eventually air the final regional rankings.)

[smedindy]

Besides, if they were just using rote criteria, there wouldn't be the need for a committee. A functional technocrat would just follow the letter of the criteria, and not try to make it the best tournament possible.

The nature of this wacky season left some teams on the sidelines in the "C" round, but as always, the best thing you can do is avoid "C" entirely. Otherwise, you let yourself open to these decisions.

The only one I'm kind of floored by is St. Joseph's getting in. Pick your alternate "C"  candidate and I bet they beat St. Joseph's seven out of ten. Alas...

Keene state beats St. Joes 10 out of 10 times.

Let's not get all hyerbolic about it. This isn't Amherst vs. Oberlin...

[smedindy]

They're all in order of the last published regional rankings, except that IWU obviously jumped over Lake Forest.  (And there is speculation that Wesleyan jumped WPI and blocked them from ever reaching the table; I guess we'll see, if they do eventually air the final regional rankings.)

Projections would be easier if committees didn't spring-heel jack some teams over another.

[Mr. Ypsi]

They're all in order of the last published regional rankings, except that IWU obviously jumped over Lake Forest.  (And there is speculation that Wesleyan jumped WPI and blocked them from ever reaching the table; I guess we'll see, if they do eventually air the final regional rankings.)

Projections would be easier if committees didn't spring-heel jack some teams over another.

True, but as I've argued (here and elsewhere), I believe the IWU over LF was entirely justified.  (That their SOS's were not MORE dissimilar is a quirk of geography, and the utter collapse of Millikin; and we had ELEVEN games vs. RR opponents to their ONE.)  I've not studied the situation of Wesleyan and WPI.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

They're all in order of the last published regional rankings, except that IWU obviously jumped over Lake Forest.  (And there is speculation that Wesleyan jumped WPI and blocked them from ever reaching the table; I guess we'll see, if they do eventually air the final regional rankings.)

Projections would be easier if committees didn't spring-heel jack some teams over another.

True, but as I've argued (here and elsewhere), I believe the IWU over LF was entirely justified.  (That their SOS's were not MORE dissimilar is a quirk of geography, and the utter collapse of Millikin; and we had ELEVEN games vs. RR opponents to their ONE.)  I've not studied the situation of Wesleyan and WPI.

WPI had a bad schedule and their losses were worse.  I took WPI off my radar for the top 25 after the first loss after the MIT win.  Beating a highly ranked team who also had a bad schedule doesn't help your case too much.

I'm amazed that WPI was ranked as highly as they were.

I was more interested that Keene wasn't higher - not really from my own personal evaluation, but because everyone else crunching the numbers seemed pretty high on them.  They didn't have a lot of wins in conference, but their schedule was more impressive than WPI.