Pool C

Started by Pat Coleman, January 20, 2006, 02:35:54 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

KnightSlappy

Quote from: ziggy on February 27, 2012, 01:21:13 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2012, 01:17:45 PM
Quote from: sac on February 27, 2012, 01:16:18 PM
Wesleyan lost to Middlebury

WPI lost to Springfield.

maybe this was enough to change their regional position.  ? ? ?

I think that can be the only explanation, that WPI got blocked, and they didn't think Wesleyan should get in.

And I'll argue it's an explanation that is just as poor as WPI not being in the field. A .720 WP is one that generally passes the eyeball test and their SOS is what, top 5 percentile?

top two percent of D3.

ziggy

Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2012, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 27, 2012, 01:21:13 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2012, 01:17:45 PM
Quote from: sac on February 27, 2012, 01:16:18 PM
Wesleyan lost to Middlebury

WPI lost to Springfield.

maybe this was enough to change their regional position.  ? ? ?

I think that can be the only explanation, that WPI got blocked, and they didn't think Wesleyan should get in.

And I'll argue it's an explanation that is just as poor as WPI not being in the field. A .720 WP is one that generally passes the eyeball test and their SOS is what, top 5 percentile?

top two percent of D3.

I rest my case


(probably not really)

smedindy

I made this argument in football on why Case should have received a bid. (Though in retrospect, the committee putting in SJF was a master stroke - or just luck).

I believe the NCAC is moving away from hard / fast rules. And perhaps, again, they realize their SOS calculation isn't up to snuff.
Wabash Always Fights!

Pat Coleman

Quote from: Titan Q on February 27, 2012, 12:46:16 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 27, 2012, 12:34:57 PM
Titan Q drank enough of the green kool-aid to get his IWU team into the dance, despite all the nay-sayers that didn't think they would get a bid. Good job by Q, KnightSlappy and the Guru.

The kool-aid helped me put the Titans in on my board...but so did SOS, results vs regionally ranked, and secondary criteria (wins @ Staten Island, vs Bethany).  IWU had a very strong resume outside of winning %. 

Not that we know IWU hit the board in the Midwest right after Wheaton and Transylvania (ahead of Lake Forest), I'd guess IWU got in around #16 or so.

It was certainly fun doing the selection projections.

I had IWU even higher on my board than Q did and I definitely do not drink the kool-aid. Just ask IWU fans on the board circa about 2002. :)
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: ziggy on February 27, 2012, 01:02:20 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2012, 01:01:23 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2012, 12:58:47 PM
IWU was 17th in Massey power and 10th in SOS. I think the committee got that one right.

I also think a huge factor was their secondary criteria road wins against Staten Island and Bethany, both pool A teams.

But looking at IWU against WPI, how do you even get to the secondary criteria? It's indefensible!

I don't think you ever get to IWU vs. WPI. Seems the committee stuck Wesleyan ahead of WPI and that's where the NE at-large train derailed.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

ziggy

Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2012, 03:36:09 PM
I don't think you ever get to IWU vs. WPI. Seems the committee stuck Wesleyan ahead of WPI and that's where the NE at-large train derailed.

Still a problem, it just got pushed to a different part of the process...

KnightSlappy

Quote from: ziggy on February 27, 2012, 03:38:51 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2012, 03:36:09 PM
I don't think you ever get to IWU vs. WPI. Seems the committee stuck Wesleyan ahead of WPI and that's where the NE at-large train derailed.

Still a problem, it just got pushed to a different part of the process...

?

WPI failed to maintain control of their ranking all the way to the ground. Happens.

7express

Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2012, 01:17:14 PM
Besides, if they were just using rote criteria, there wouldn't be the need for a committee. A functional technocrat would just follow the letter of the criteria, and not try to make it the best tournament possible.

The nature of this wacky season left some teams on the sidelines in the "C" round, but as always, the best thing you can do is avoid "C" entirely. Otherwise, you let yourself open to these decisions.

The only one I'm kind of floored by is St. Joseph's getting in. Pick your alternate "C"  candidate and I bet they beat St. Joseph's seven out of ten. Alas...

Keene state beats St. Joes 10 out of 10 times.

fritzdis

Quote from: 7express on February 27, 2012, 04:22:56 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2012, 01:17:14 PM
Besides, if they were just using rote criteria, there wouldn't be the need for a committee. A functional technocrat would just follow the letter of the criteria, and not try to make it the best tournament possible.

The nature of this wacky season left some teams on the sidelines in the "C" round, but as always, the best thing you can do is avoid "C" entirely. Otherwise, you let yourself open to these decisions.

The only one I'm kind of floored by is St. Joseph's getting in. Pick your alternate "C"  candidate and I bet they beat St. Joseph's seven out of ten. Alas...

Keene state beats St. Joes 10 out of 10 times.

Care to explain this St. Joseph's result?

11/19    at Eastern Connecticut •    W, 90-76

Greek Tragedy

POOL C BIDS



   ATL                                          
   WK3   TEAM      CON.      REG/OVERALL      WL%      SOS      RvsRR         
   #3   St. Joseph's (LI)*  POOLC      SKY      21-2, 21-3      0.913      0.470       1-0       0-1   
   #4   Richard Stockton*      NJAC      17-6, 18-7      0.739      0.523       1-3       1-1   
   #5   New Jersey City      NJAC      15-6, 17-7      0.714      0.554       2-3       0-0   
                                             
   EAST                                          
   WK3   TEAM      CON.      REG/OVERALL      WL%      SOS      RvsRR         
   #1   Hartwick*  POOL C      E8      22-2, 23-2      0.917      0.523       2-0       0-1   
   #3   Hobart*  POOL C      LL      20-4, 21-4      0.833      0.517       1-1       1-1   
   #4   NYU  POOL C      UAA      19-5, 19-5      0.792      0.491       2-2       1-0   
   #6   Nazareth      E8      17-6, 17-8      0.739      0.549       0-4       1-1   
                                             
   GL                                          
   WK3   TEAM      CON.      REG/OVERALL      WL%      SOS      RvsRR         
   #2   Wittenberg* POOL C      NCAC      18-4, 20-5      0.818      0.539       6-1       1-1   
   #4   Ohio Wesleyan  POOL C      NCAC      18-6, 19-6      0.750      0.554       3-5       1-1   
   #6   John Carroll      OAC      15-6, 18-6      0.714      0.499       1-1       0-1   
                                             
   MA                                          
   WK3   TEAM      CON.      REG/OVERALL      WL%      SOS      RvsRR         
   #3   St. Mary's (Md)*  POOL C      CAC      17-5, 19-6      0.773      0.568       1-3       0-1   
   #4   Keystone      CSAC      20-5, 20-5      0.800      0.490       0-2       1-1   
   #7   Widener      MACC      14-7, 18-7      0.667      0.565       4-4       0-1   
   #8   Mary Washington      CAC      16-6, 17-8      0.727      0.522       3-2       1-1   
   #9   Albright      MACC      13-7, 17-8      0.650      0.546       4-6       0-1   
                                             
   MW                                          
   WK3   TEAM      CON.      REG/OVERALL      WL%      SOS      RvsRR         
   #2   Wheaton (IL)  POOL C      CCIW      17-5, 19-5      0.773      0.552       4-3       2-1   
   #3   Transylvania*  POOL C      HCAC      21-2, 22-3      0.913      0.508       3-0       1-1   
   #4   Lake Forest*      MWC      19-3, 20-3      0.864      0.520       0-1       0-1   
   #5   Illinois Wesleyan  POOL C      CCIW      17-6, 19-6      0.739      0.538       2-4       0-1   
   #6   Concordia (WI)*      NATH      19-4, 20-4      0.826      0.487       1-1       1-1   
   #8   Augustana      CCIW      18-5, 19-5      0.783      0.466       3-4       0-2   
                                             
   NE                                          
   WK3   TEAM      CON.      REG/OVERALL      WL%      SOS      RvsRR         
   #2   Middlebury  POOL C      NESCAC      21-2, 23-2      0.913      0.564       2-2       1-1   
   #4   Rhode Island College  POOL C      LEC      20-5, 20-5      0.800      0.586       5-4       2-1   
   #5   W. Connecticut  POOL C      LEC      20-5, 20-5      0.800      0.568       6-3       0-1   
   #7   WPI      NEWMAC      18-6, 18-6      0.750      0.587       2-3       0-1   
   #8   Wesleyan (Conn)      NESCAC      20-4, 20-5      0.833      0.506       3-2       0-1   
   #10   Keene State      LEC      15-6, 18-7      0.714      0.573       3-4       1-1   
                                             
   STH                                          
   WK3   TEAM      CON.      REG/OVERALL      WL%      SOS      RvsRR         
   #1   Mary Hardin-Baylor*  POOL C      ASC      23-1, 24-1      0.958      0.512       3-0       1-1   
   #3   Birmingham-Southern*  POOL C      SCAC      21-1, 24-1      0.955      0.455       0-0       1-1   
   #4   Randolph-Macon  POOL C      ODAC      17-4, 20-5      0.810      0.516       3-2       1-1   
   #6   Emory      UAA      19-5, 19-5      0.792      0.517       2-3       0-1   
   #7   Hardin-Simmons      ASC      17-6, 19-6      0.739      0.523       0-3       2-1   
   #8   Texas-Dallas      ASC      19-4, 21-4      0.826      0.475       0-2       1-1   
                                             
   WST                                          
   WK3   TEAM      CON.      REG/OVERALL      WL%      SOS      RvsRR         
   #1   Whitewater*  POOL C      WIAC      22-3, 2-3      0.880      0.551       5-2       1-1   
   #4   Stevens Point  POOL C      WIAC      17-6, 19-6      0.739      0.588       4-2       1-1   
   #7   Gustavus Adolphus  POOL C      MIAC      18-6, 19-6      0.750      0.517       2-1       1-1   
   #8   Puget Sound      NWC      14-6, 19-6      0.700      0.491       3-2       1-1   
   #9   Whitman      NWC      16-7, 18-7      0.696      0.518       1-5       0-1   
                                             
Pointers
Breed of a Champion
2004, 2005, 2010 and 2015 National Champions

Fantasy Leagues Commissioner

TGHIJGSTO!!!

Mr. Ypsi

They're all in order of the last published regional rankings, except that IWU obviously jumped over Lake Forest.  (And there is speculation that Wesleyan jumped WPI and blocked them from ever reaching the table; I guess we'll see, if they do eventually air the final regional rankings.)

smedindy

Quote from: 7express on February 27, 2012, 04:22:56 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2012, 01:17:14 PM
Besides, if they were just using rote criteria, there wouldn't be the need for a committee. A functional technocrat would just follow the letter of the criteria, and not try to make it the best tournament possible.

The nature of this wacky season left some teams on the sidelines in the "C" round, but as always, the best thing you can do is avoid "C" entirely. Otherwise, you let yourself open to these decisions.

The only one I'm kind of floored by is St. Joseph's getting in. Pick your alternate "C"  candidate and I bet they beat St. Joseph's seven out of ten. Alas...

Keene state beats St. Joes 10 out of 10 times.

Let's not get all hyerbolic about it. This isn't Amherst vs. Oberlin...
Wabash Always Fights!

smedindy

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2012, 06:07:39 PM
They're all in order of the last published regional rankings, except that IWU obviously jumped over Lake Forest.  (And there is speculation that Wesleyan jumped WPI and blocked them from ever reaching the table; I guess we'll see, if they do eventually air the final regional rankings.)

Projections would be easier if committees didn't spring-heel jack some teams over another.
Wabash Always Fights!

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2012, 06:56:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2012, 06:07:39 PM
They're all in order of the last published regional rankings, except that IWU obviously jumped over Lake Forest.  (And there is speculation that Wesleyan jumped WPI and blocked them from ever reaching the table; I guess we'll see, if they do eventually air the final regional rankings.)

Projections would be easier if committees didn't spring-heel jack some teams over another.

True, but as I've argued (here and elsewhere), I believe the IWU over LF was entirely justified.  (That their SOS's were not MORE dissimilar is a quirk of geography, and the utter collapse of Millikin; and we had ELEVEN games vs. RR opponents to their ONE.)  I've not studied the situation of Wesleyan and WPI.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2012, 07:06:32 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2012, 06:56:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2012, 06:07:39 PM
They're all in order of the last published regional rankings, except that IWU obviously jumped over Lake Forest.  (And there is speculation that Wesleyan jumped WPI and blocked them from ever reaching the table; I guess we'll see, if they do eventually air the final regional rankings.)

Projections would be easier if committees didn't spring-heel jack some teams over another.

True, but as I've argued (here and elsewhere), I believe the IWU over LF was entirely justified.  (That their SOS's were not MORE dissimilar is a quirk of geography, and the utter collapse of Millikin; and we had ELEVEN games vs. RR opponents to their ONE.)  I've not studied the situation of Wesleyan and WPI.

WPI had a bad schedule and their losses were worse.  I took WPI off my radar for the top 25 after the first loss after the MIT win.  Beating a highly ranked team who also had a bad schedule doesn't help your case too much.

I'm amazed that WPI was ranked as highly as they were.

I was more interested that Keene wasn't higher - not really from my own personal evaluation, but because everyone else crunching the numbers seemed pretty high on them.  They didn't have a lot of wins in conference, but their schedule was more impressive than WPI.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere