Pool C

[Titan Q]

Then Hampden-Sydney would be 5-2 ...

Wins - Wesley, Guilford, Randolph, Lynchburg, Lynchburg
Loss - Guilford, Va Wesleyan

Wesley is not an in-region game for H-S.  That win could help in secondary criteria, but not primary.  (I incorrectly listed Wesley in my earlier response to you, which I later edited.)

So 4-2.

[Greek Tragedy]

UPCOMING SCHEDULES FOR REGIONALLY RANKED TEAMS

TEAMS IN BLUE ARE CONFERENCE LEADERS/WINNERS

ATL
RNK1	RNK2	TEAM	CONF.	UPCOMING SCHEDULE
2	1	Old Westbury	SKY	vs. Farmingdale State/Sage winner in SKY semis 2/21
1	2	Ramapo	NJAC	vs. William Paterson in NJAC semis 2/19
5	3	Rutgers-Newark	NJAC	vs. Richard Stockton in NJAC semis 2/19
4	4	Ricard Stockton	NJAC	at Rutgers-Newark in NJAC semis 2/19
3	5	SUNY-Purchase	SKY	vs. Mount St. Mary/Yeshiva winner in SKY semis 2/21
EAST
RNK1	RNK2	TEAM	CONF.	SCHEDULE
1	1	Rochester	UAA	LOST to Case Western Reserve 57-51; at Emory 2/23
2	2	SUNY-Cortland	SUNYAC	vs. Oswego/Brockport winner in SUNYAC semis 2/22
3	3	Stevens	E8	vs. Utica in E8 semis 2/22
5	4	Hobart	LL	vs. Skidmore in LL semis 2/20
n/a	5	Plattsburgh St.	SUNYAC	vs. Geneseo/New Paltz winner in SUNYAC semis 2/22
n/a	6	Ithaca	E8	vs. Fisher in E8 semis 2/22
		DROPPING OUT
4	n/a	NYU	UAA	LOST to Chicago 64-51; vs. Brandeis 2/23
6	n/a	SUNY-Geneseo	SUNYAC	vs. New Paltz in SUNYAC quarters 2/19
GT LK
RNK1	RNK2	TEAM	CONF.	SCHEDULE
1	1	Wooster	NCAC	vs. Oberlin in NCAC quarters 2/19
2	2	Ohio Wesleyan	NCAC	vs. Denison in NCAC quarters 2/19
3	3	Thomas More	PrAC	vs. Geneva in PrAC quarters 2/19
n/a	4	Capital	OAC	vs. quarterfinal winner in OAC semis 2/21
5	5	St. Vincent	PrAC	vs. Westminster/Waynesburg winner in PrAC quarters 2/19
4	6	Calvin	MIAA	vs. Adrian in MIAA semis 2/21
		DROPPING OUT
6	n/a	Marietta	OAC	vs. quarterfinal winner in OAC semis 2/21
MID-ATL
RNK1	RNK2	TEAM	CONF.	SCHEDULE
4	1	Alvernia	MACC	vs. Stevenson/Elizabethtown winner in MACC semis 2/20
1	2	Catholic	LAND	vs. Merchant Marine in LAND semis 2/20
3	3	St. Mary's (Md.)	CAC	vs. Frostburg St./Mary Washington winner in CAC semis 2/21
2	4	Albright	MACC	vs. Lycoming in MACC semis 2/20
5	5	Wesley	CAC	vs. York/Salisbury winner in CAC semis 2/21
6	6	Scranton	LAND	vs. Juniata in LAND semis 2/20
8	7	Cabrini	CSAC	vs. Neumann in CSAC semis 2/19
n/a	8	DeSales	MACF	vs. Fairleigh Dickinson in MACF semis 2/20
n/a	9	Dickinson	CC	vs. Johns Hopkins in CC semis 2/22
		DROPPING OUT
7	n/a	Arcadia	MACC	vs Stevenson in MACC quarters 2/18
9	n/a	Frank & Marsh	CC	vs. Muhlenberg/Gettysburg winner in CC semis 2/22
MW
RNK1	RNK2	TEAM	CONF.
1	1	Illinois Wesleyan	CCIW	at North Central 2/19
4	2	Washington U.	UAA	WON at Brandeis 76-60
3	3	Wheaton (IL)	CCIW	at Elmhurst 2/19
5	4	North Central (IL)	CCIW	vs. Illinois Wesleyan 2/19
2	5	Transylvania	HCAC	vs Mount St. Joseph in HCAC quarters 2/19
6	6	Rose-Hulman	HCAC	vs. Defiance/Franklin winner in HCAC semis 2/22
7	7	Augustana	CCIW	vs. Millikin 2/19
8	8	St. Norbert	MWC	vs. Ripon in MWC semi 2/22
NE
RNK1	RNK2	TEAM	CONF.	SCHEDULE
1	1	WPI	NEWMAC	vs. Clark/Babson winner in NEWMAC semis 2/23
2	2	Amherst	NESCAC	vs Tufts in NESCAC semis 2/23
3	3	Williams	NESCAC	vs. Middlebury in NESCAC semis 2/23
4	4	Middlebury	NESCAC	vs. Williams in NESCAC semis 2/23
5	5	RIC	LEC	vs. Mass.-Dartmouth in LEC quarters 2/19
7	6	MIT	NEWMAC	vs. Wheelock 2/17; vs. Springfield in NEWMAC semis 2/23
6	7	Brandeis	UAA	LOST to Washington U 76-60
10	8	Springfield	NEWMAC	at MIT in NEWMAC semis 2/23
8	9	Curry	CCC	vs. Western New England in CCC quarters 2/19
9	10	Westfield St.	MASCAC	vs. Bridgewater St./Fitchburg St. winner in MASCAC semis 2/21
11	11	Eastern Conn.	LEC	vs. West. Conn. In LEC quarters 2/19
12	12	Albertus Magnus	GNAC	vs. Rivier in GNAC quarters 2/19
SOUTH
RNK1	RNK2	TEAM	CONF.	SCHEDULE
1	1	Ham-Syd	ODAC	vs. Roanoke/Bridgewater winner in ODAC quarters 2/22
2	2	MHB	ASC	TBA
5	3	Emory	UAA	BEAT Carnegie Mellon 84-61
6	4	Vir. Wes.	ODAC	vs. East. Mennonite/Washington and Lee winner in ODAC quarters 2/22
4	5	Concordia (TX)	ASC	TBA
3	6	Chris Newport	USAC	at Ferrum 2/17
n/a	7	Randolph	ODAC	vs. Shenandoah/Lynchburg winner in ODAC quarters 2/22
n/a	8	Texas-Dallas	ASC	TBA
		DROPPING OUT
7	n/a	Lynchburg	ODAC	vs Shenandoah in ODAC 1st Round 2/19
8	n/a	Guilford	ODAC	vs. Emory & Henry in ODAC 1st Round  2/19
WEST
RNK1	RNK2	TEAM	CONF.	SCHEDULE
1	1	St. Thomas	MIAC	vs. TBA in MIAC semis 2/22
3	2	Stevens Point	WIAC	vs. TBA in WIAC semis 2/21
4	3	Whitewater	WIAC	vs. TBA in WIAC semis 2/21
2	4	Whitworth	NWC	vs. Lewis & Clark in NWC semis 2/21
6	5	Buena Vista	IIAC	vs. Simpson/Dubuque winner in IIAC semis 2/21
5	6	Stout	WIAC	vs. Superior in WIAC quarters 2/19
9	7	Con-Moorhead	MIAC	vs. TBA in MIAC semis 2/22
n/a	8	Whitman	NWC	vs. George Fox in NWC semis (2/21)-assumed
7	9	Augsburg	MIAC	vs. St. John's in MIAC quarters 2/20
		DROPPING OUT
8	N/A	Luther	IIAC	vs. Coe/Wartburg winner in IIAC semis 2/21

[Hugenerd]

Then Hampden-Sydney would be 5-2 ...

Wins - Wesley, Guilford, Randolph, Lynchburg, Lynchburg
Loss - Guilford, Va Wesleyan

Wesley is not an in-region game for H-S.  That win could help in secondary criteria, but not primary.  (I incorrectly listed Wesley in my earlier response to you, which I later edited.)

So 4-2.

The region doesn't seem to matter for results vs. ranked opponents.  For example, look at St. Norbert's results vs. ranked opponents listed in the NCAA spreadsheets from last week.  They were listed at 1-2, with the 1-1 being against UWW (West region) and the other loss being to Augie.  Or is that only because UWW meets the distance criteria for St. Norbert?

http://web1.ncaa.org/champsel_new/exec/pdf/staticpdfrank?doWhat=publicrankings&sportCode=MBB&region=35&division=3

http://d3hoops.com/teams/St._Norbert/men/2012-13/index

[monsoon]

The region doesn't seem to matter for results vs. ranked opponents.  For example, look at St. Norbert's results vs. ranked opponents listed in the NCAA spreadsheets from last week.  They were listed at 1-2, with the 1-1 being against UWW (West region) and the other loss being to Augie.  Or is that only because UWW meets the distance criteria for St. Norbert?

http://web1.ncaa.org/champsel_new/exec/pdf/staticpdfrank?doWhat=publicrankings&sportCode=MBB&region=35&division=3

http://d3hoops.com/teams/St._Norbert/men/2012-13/index

St. Norbert / UWW is an in-region game.  Didn't check the mileage, but they're certainly in the same administrative region by both being in Wisconsin.

[Greek Tragedy]

And Illinois and Wisconsin are both in Region 4 of the administrative regions.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Then Hampden-Sydney would be 5-2 ...

Wins - Wesley, Guilford, Randolph, Lynchburg, Lynchburg
Loss - Guilford, Va Wesleyan

Wesley is not an in-region game for H-S.  That win could help in secondary criteria, but not primary.  (I incorrectly listed Wesley in my earlier response to you, which I later edited.)

So 4-2.

The region doesn't seem to matter for results vs. ranked opponents.  For example, look at St. Norbert's results vs. ranked opponents listed in the NCAA spreadsheets from last week.  They were listed at 1-2, with the 1-1 being against UWW (West region) and the other loss being to Augie.  Or is that only because UWW meets the distance criteria for St. Norbert?

http://web1.ncaa.org/champsel_new/exec/pdf/staticpdfrank?doWhat=publicrankings&sportCode=MBB&region=35&division=3

http://d3hoops.com/teams/St._Norbert/men/2012-13/index

It does matter... if you play a game against a non-region opponent who is regionally ranked... it doesn't count as a regional game, as we know, and it doesn't count as a vRRO - see Calvin vs. Wheaton as the prime example. It is secondary criteria only.

[Hugenerd]

Thanks for the clarification, wasn't sure on that, hence the question at the end of that paragraph.

So the Plattsburgh game vs. Middlebury does count as a vRRO, correct?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Yes... that game counts.

[Titan Q]

For a game to be counted in "results vs regionally ranked", it has to be an "in-region" game.  In other words, has to meet one of these four criteria...

1. All competition within an institution's defined region.

2. All competition within a 200-mile radius from one institution to another.

3. All competition within an institution's membership geographical region. The country is divided into four membership regions as listed below. For most institutions this should result in an expanded list of potential in-region opponents than in the past.
● Region 1:  Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Vermont
● Region 2:  New York, Pennsylvania
● Region 3:  Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia
● Region 4: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Washington, Wisconsin, Wyoming

4. All conference games.


D3hoops.com lists all of these game on the schedule pages with an asterisk.  In the case of Middlebury/Plattsburgh St, that is in-region - http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Middlebury/men/2012-13/index - and so it counts in results vs regionally ranked.

On the flip side, Wheaton vs Calvin does not count under results vs regionally ranked (was not an in-region game).  It could factor into the selection process, but only as "secondary criteria."  IWU's Pool C resume was helped last year by two such wins (Staten Island, Bethany).

The fact that Wheaton and Calvin are 203 miles apart and does not count, while UW-Stevens Point vs Texas Dallas and St. Thomas vs Whitworth both count is another conversation altogether.

[Just Bill]

Good place to note, that next year regions will matter less. As long as teams play 70% of their games in-region, then all games against D-III teams will count for primary criteria.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Well... we also may have regions realigned as well next year... though, I am not sure if they can get the work done or not.

[Titan Q]

Updated look at how I see Pool C through Sunday 2/17.  Notes about the data:

* In-region records are through Sunday 2/17 
* SOS is from the regional ranking-week 2 data sheets, through 2/10 (SOS is a game or two old)
* Results vs regionally ranked data through Sunday 2/17


(Losses from Saturday and Sunday are noted)

Pool C projection
1. UW-Whitewater (West, WIAC) - 20-4 (.833)/.583/6-2
2. Williams (Northeast, NESCAC) - 20-3 (.870)/.562/3-3
3. Wheaton (Midwest, CCIW) - 16-5 (.762)/.573/4-3
4. North Central (Midwest, CCIW) - 19-3 (.864)/.531/3-2
5. Washington U. (Midwest, UAA) - 18-5 (.783)/.559/6-3
6. Emory (South, UAA) - 17-6 (.739)/.568/4-4
7. Virginia Wesleyan (South, ODAC) - 16-5 (.762)/.534/7-2
8. MIT (Northeast, NEWMAC) - 18-4 (.818)/.552/3-3  (vs Wheelock, 7:00pm Sunday)
9. Middlebury (Northeast, NESCAC) - 19-2 (.905)/.521/1-2
10. Albright (Mid-Atlantic, MACC) - 20-5 (.800)/.554/3-1
11. Transylvania (Midwest, HCAC) - 18-5 (.782)/.543/3-1
12. Ohio Wesleyan (Great Lakes, NCAC) - 19-4 (.826)/.549/2-2
13. Springfield (Northeast, NEWMAC) - 18-7 (.720)/.567/3-5
14. Wesley (Mid-Atlantic, CAC) - 16-3 (.842)/.505/3-1  *lost vs Salisbury*
15. Brandeis (Northeast, UAA) - 17-7 (.708)/.571/3-6  *lost vs Wash U*
16. Scranton (Mid-Atlantic, LAND) - 19-6 (.760)/.535/3-1
17. Rutgers-Newark (Atlantic, NJAC) - 18-6 (.750)/.543/2-3
18. Thomas More (Great Lakes, PrAC) - 20-3 (.870)/.478/1-2   *lost @ St. Vincent*
19. Plattsburgh State (East, SUNYAC) - 18-6 (.750)/.539/2-4
----------
20. UW-Stout (West, WIAC) - 18-6 (.750)/.534/1-4
21. Richard Stockton (Atlantic, NJAC) - 19-6 (.760)/.524/1-4
22. Whitman (West, NWC) - 15-6 (.714)/.568/2-2
23. Concordia-Tx (South, ASC) - 18-4 (.818)/.523/2-2
24. Eastern Connecticut (Northeast, LEC) - 18-4 (.818)/.511/1-1
25. SUNY-Purchase (Atlantic, Sky) - 20-5 (.800)/.522/1-2
26. Augustana (Midwest, CCIW) - 16-7 (.696)/.557/1-7
27. Augsburg (West, MIAC) - 19-6 (.760)/.525/1-3
28. Concordia-Moorhead (West, MIAC) - 18-6 (.750)/.508/2-2
29. Ithaca (East, E8) - 16-8 (.667)/.541/2-3
30. Texas-Dallas (South, ASC) - 19-6 (.760)/.517/0-3
31. Randolph (South, ODAC) - 14-5 (.737)/.485/1-3  *lost @ Randolph-Macon*

Top "Bubble Bursters" (presumed Pool As that would be competitive in Pool C)
Tier one:
1. St. Thomas (West, MIAC) - 24-1 (.960)/.543/6-1
2. Amherst (Northeast, NESCAC) - 23-2 (.920)/.568/6-1
3. Rochester (East, UAA) - 20-3 (.870)/.584/7-2  *lost vs Case Western Reserve*
4. UW-Stevens Point (West, WIAC) - 21-4 (.840)/.583/7-2
5. WPI (Northeast, NEWMAC) - 23-2 (.920)/.553/4-2
6. Illinois Wesleyan (Midwest, CCIW) - 18-3 (.857)/.548/5-2
7. Whitworth (West, NWC) - 21-3 (.875)/.549/3-1
8. Rhode Island (Northeast, LEC) - 22-3 (.880)/.539/3-3
9. Wooster (Great Lakes, NCAC) -20-4 (.833)/.562/3-1  *lost @ DePauw*
10. Alvernia (Mid-Atlantic, MACC) - 21-4 (.840)/.552/4-2
11. Hampden-Sydney (South, ODAC) - 18-3 (.857)/.523/4-2
12. Catholic (Mid-Atlantic, LAND) - 19-3 (.864)/.536/2-2
13. Stevens (East, E8) - 19-4 (.826)/.538/3-2  *lost @ St. John Fisher*
14. Mary Hardin-Baylor (South, ASC) - 21-4 (.840)/.540/3-2
15. St. Mary's (Mid-Atlantic, CAC) - 17-3 (.850)/.516/3-2
16. Cortland St. (East, SUNYAC) - 21-3 (.875)/.511/3-2

Tier two:
17. Calvin (Great Lakes, MIAA) - 18-1 (.947)/.432/0-0
18. SUNY-Old Westbury (Atlantic, Sky) - 21-2 (.913)/.493/2-1  *lost @ Sage*
19. Rose-Hulman (Midwest, HCAC) - 21-3 (.875)/.511/1-1
20. St. Norbert (Midwest, MWC) - 18-5 (.783)/.540/1-2
21. Buena Vista (West, IIAC) - 18-6 (.750)/.558/1-2
22. Hobart (East, LL) - 18-6 (.750)/.555/0-3


Let me know if you find errors in data or if something looks out of whack.

[Greek Tragedy]

Very nice work, Bob!

[bopol]

Thoughts and Questions:

* Now that Rochester had made it interesting, what are the tiebrakers in the UAA?  Generally, I see all 3 of the potential tie-ees in (Brandeis, Rochester and Washington), so it might not matter.

* I don't think the CCIW will have a bubble burst unless Augustana surprises as I can't see all of Wheaton, North Central and IWU in the tournament.

* Rutger-Newark vs. Richard Stockton looks almost like a play in game for the tournament at this point. 

* Does Stout have a realistic path to the tournament without winning the WIAC?

[Titan Q]

Thoughts and Questions:

* Now that Rochester had made it interesting, what are the tiebrakers in the UAA?  Generally, I see all 3 of the potential tie-ees in (Brandeis, Rochester and Washington), so it might not matter.

* I don't think the CCIW will have a bubble burst unless Augustana surprises as I can't see all of Wheaton, North Central and IWU in the tournament.

* Rutger-Newark vs. Richard Stockton looks almost like a play in game for the tournament at this point. 

* Does Stout have a realistic path to the tournament without winning the WIAC?

I disagree on Brandeis, bopol (in terms of them being "in").  I have them #15 on the Pool C list right now.  If that's accurate, then Brandeis would be on the wrong side of the bubble with just 5 conference tournament upsets (from my "bubble burster"list).  And 5 seems to be about the average number of these upsets each year.  I believe Brandeis is very much on the bubble at this point.

I view IWU, North Central, and Wheaton all as being in great Pool C shape (and Augustana having no chance).  If Augustana somehow wins the CCIW tournament, which I can't see happening since Augie is 0-6 against IWU/NCC/Wheaton, I think the league would have 4 in.

UW-Stout is definitely on the bubble...but I see them as being on the wrong side.  They need a whole bunch of things to go right in the next 7 days to get in as a Pool C.  I view Stout as a longshot...they desperately need another win vs regionally ranked.