Pool C

[KnightSlappy]

Q, How close to consideration would you have Randolph-Macon in pool c?

[algernon]

You're right, Titan Q.  A revision:

   Team                       RegWL   Overall     RegRkOppo.
1 Virginia Wesleyan     18-5    21-6           8-3
2 Mary Hardin-Baylor     23-4    23-4         3-2
3 Emory                          19-6    19-6       5-4
4 Hampden-Sydney     19-4    23-4           4-2
6 Concordia (Texas)       20-4    22-5         3-2
5 Christopher Newport   20-5    21-5         0-2
7 Texas-Dallas                20-7    20-7        0-4
8 Randolph                   15-6    21-6         2-4

Mary Hardin-Baylor v Concordia AND VWC v R-MC are games with big implications for the rankings.

An R-MC win would not only give them the ODAC AQ with a 18-9 record (19-9 overall), but might result in their entering the rankings at #7 or #8, which would affect RegRkOppo for VWC and HSC.  Randolph-Macon would be 7-8 against regionally ranked opponents.

[dcahill44]

What do you guys think about the East Region? who will get a pool C? Plattsburgh state has put together a decent resume.

[bopol]

For grins and giggles (with an allowance that I need to look at it more, but I need to leave for some family stuff now), here are my top 25 teams that haven't gained Pool A yet (as many as 6 can).

IN
   Amherst   
   WPI   
   St.Thomas   
   Stevens.Point   
   Rochester   
   Williams   
   Illinois.Wesleyan    
   Wooster   
   MHB   

SHOULD BE IN, but a notch below IN:
   Middlebury   
   Wheaton   
   MIT   
   Emory   
   Virginia.Wesleyan   
   Albright   
   Stevens   
   Transylvania   

BUBBLE:
   Buena.Vista    
   Springfield   
   Brandeis   
   Concordia(TX)   
   Plattsburgh.State   
   Rutgers.Newark   
   Old.Westbury   
   Hampden.Sydney   

FWIW.  I'll need to study it carefully to see if I am totally happy with it but need to go.  For example, I want to rethink Thomas More and a few others...

[Titan Q]

Q, How close to consideration would you have Randolph-Macon in pool c?

Great catch.  After looking at Randolph-Macon, quite frankly, I have them in at #17 at this point - how can you leave out a team with 7 wins vs regionally ranked, and 15 games played?? 

Now the problem, of course, is that for R-M to be a Pool C team, they have to lose today...which puts the in-region record at 16-10 (.615).  Can a 10-loss/.615 team really get in?  They'll still have those 7 wins vs regionally ranked, and the games played total moves to an unheard of 16!

Really interesting situation...including the fact that R-M has never been ranked in the South.  I think a team with 7 wins vs regionally ranked and 16 games played absolutely has to get in.

Great Pool C drama.
-----------------------

* In-region record is through Saturday 2/23
* SOS is through Sun 2/17 (from data sheets)
* Results vs regionally ranked is through Saturday 2/23


Pool C projection
1. UW-Stevens Point (West, WIAC) - 21-5 (.808)/.586/7-2 
2. Rochester (East, UAA) - 20-4 (.833)/.572/7-3   
3. Williams (Northeast, NESCAC) - 21-3 (.875)/.556/5-3
4. Middlebury (Northeast, NESCAC) - 19-3 (.864)/.536/2-3
5. Wooster (Great Lakes, NCAC) -22-5 (.815)/.554/3-2
6. MIT (Northeast, NEWMAC) - 19-5 (.792)/.552/4-4
7. Illinois Wesleyan (Midwest, CCIW) - 18-5 (.783)/.539/5-4 
8. Wheaton (Midwest, CCIW) - 17-6 (.739)/.568/4-4
9. Emory (South, UAA) - 19-6 (.760)/.557/5-4
10. Hampden-Sydney (South, ODAC) - 19-4 (.826)/.507/6-3 (2-1 added assuming R-M gets ranked in South)
11. Wesley (Mid-Atlantic, CAC) - 17-4 (.810)/.508/5-3
12. Springfield (Northeast, NEWMAC) - 19-7 (.731)/.561/4-5
13. Albright (Mid-Atlantic, MACC) - 20-6 (.769)/.544/3-1
14. Plattsburgh State (East, SUNYAC) - 19-7 (.731)/.545/5-5
15. Transylvania (Midwest, HCAC) - 19-6 (.760)/.542/4-1  (1-0 added assuming R-M gets ranked in South)
16. Concordia-Tx (South, ASC) - 20-4 (.833)/.514/3-2
17. Randolph-Macon (South, ODAC) - 16-9 (.640)/.565/7-8 (not currently ranked in the South region)
18. Stevens (East, E8) - 20-5 (.800)/.533/3-3 
19. SUNY-Old Westbury (Atlantic, Sky) - 21-3 (.875)/.491/2-1
----------
20. Brandeis (Northeast, UAA) - 17-8 (.680)/.570/4-7 
21. Thomas More (Great Lakes, PrAC) - 22-4 (.846)/.499/1-3 
22. Rutgers-Newark (Atlantic, NJAC) - 19-7 (.731)/.534/3-4
23. Buena Vista (West, IIAC) - 18-7 (.720)/.561/1-2
24. Augustana (Midwest, CCIW) - 18-8 (.692)/.548/2-8
25. Scranton (Mid-Atlantic, LAND) - 19-7 (.731)/.530/3-1
26. Franklin & Marshall (Mid-Atlantic, CC) – 17-6 (.739)/.518/2-3     
27. UW-Stout (West, WIAC) - 19-7 (.731)/.536/1-5
28. Salisbury (Mid-Atlantic, CAC) – 16-6 (.727)/.521/3-6  (0-1 added assuming R-M gets ranked in South)
29. Richard Stockton (Atlantic, NJAC) - 19-7 (.731)/.537/1-5


"Bubble Bursters" (presumed Pool As that would be competitive in Pool C)
1. St. Thomas (West, MIAC) - 25-1 (.962)/.540/6-1    vs Augsburg in MIAC final, Sunday 3:00pm
2. WPI (Northeast, NEWMAC) - 24-2 (.923)/.561/4-2   vs Springfield* in NEWMAC final, Sunday 1:00pm
3. Virginia Wesleyan (South, ODAC) - 18-5 (.782)/.549/8-4    vs Randolph-Macon in ODAC final, Sunday 3:30pm
4. Mary Hardin-Baylor (South, ASC) - 23-4 (.852)/.533/3-2    vs Concordia-Texas in ASC final, Sunday 2:00pm

* I have Springfield on the wrong side of the bubble with a loss to WPI


Give the numbers for your team, or other teams for that matter, a close look.  I'm trying my best to update in-region winning % and results vs RR, but could be an error here or there.  Thanks.

[Titan Q]

Also, Randolph-Macon getting ranked in the South (which seems like a slam dunk) impacts all kinds of "results vs regionally ranked."  In terms of Pool C...

* give Transylvania 1-0...move to 4-1
* give Hampden-Sydney 2-1...move to 6-3
* give Virginia Wesleyan 0-1...move to 8-4


All kinds of stuff riding on the Randolph-Macon situation.

[Hugenerd]

What do you guys think about the East Region? who will get a pool C? Plattsburgh state has put together a decent resume.

There is no requirement that any given region receives a Pool C.  With that said, in the East, Rochester and Stevens will still be ranked ahead of Plattsburgh in the Pool C discussions.  Rochester should get selected rather early, but Stevens is more of a bubble team, so I don't think things are looking good for an 8-loss PS team.

[sac]

Also, Randolph-Macon getting ranked in the South (which seems like a slam dunk) impacts all kinds of "results vs regionally ranked).  In terms of Pool C...

* give Transylvania 1-0...move to 4-1
* give Hampden-Sydney 2-1...move to 6-3
* give Virginia Wesleyan 0-1...move to 8-4


All kinds of stuff riding on the Randolph-Macon situation.

It would again point out what a huge advantage it is to be in a region where more teams get ranked.  18-9 teams hardly ever get ranked in the Great Lakes, East or Atlantic  Regions.  Terribly unfair if RRO is going to be used as such a high priority criteria.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Also, Randolph-Macon getting ranked in the South (which seems like a slam dunk) impacts all kinds of "results vs regionally ranked).  In terms of Pool C...

* give Transylvania 1-0...move to 4-1
* give Hampden-Sydney 2-1...move to 6-3
* give Virginia Wesleyan 0-1...move to 8-4


All kinds of stuff riding on the Randolph-Macon situation.

It would again point out what a huge advantage it is to be in a region where more teams get ranked.  18-9 teams hardly ever get ranked in the Great Lakes, East or Atlantic  Regions.  Terribly unfair if RRO is going to be used as such a high priority criteria.

I don't think anyone is saying it is a higher priority... it is just that RMC has such an unbelievable number and that RMC being ranked will have an affect on those other school's numbers. And further more, we have seen that vRRO has been considered by regional committees for several years as a deciding factor... so a team with 16 games vRROs will probably get some attention. There are five criteria after all that will be weighed...

[Titan Q]

Also, Randolph-Macon getting ranked in the South (which seems like a slam dunk) impacts all kinds of "results vs regionally ranked).  In terms of Pool C...

* give Transylvania 1-0...move to 4-1
* give Hampden-Sydney 2-1...move to 6-3
* give Virginia Wesleyan 0-1...move to 8-4


All kinds of stuff riding on the Randolph-Macon situation.

It would again point out what a huge advantage it is to be in a region where more teams get ranked.  18-9 teams hardly ever get ranked in the Great Lakes, East or Atlantic  Regions.  Terribly unfair if RRO is going to be used as such a high priority criteria.

I don't think anyone is saying it is a higher priority... it is just that RMC has such an unbelievable number and that RMC being ranked will have an affect on those other school's numbers. And further more, we have seen that vRRO has been considered by regional committees for several years as a deciding factor... so a team with 16 games vRROs will probably get some attention. There are five criteria after all that will be weighed...

I think you are missing Scott's main point though - "It would again point out what a huge advantage it is to be in a region where more teams get ranked.  18-9 teams hardly ever get ranked in the Great Lakes, East or Atlantic  Regions."

More ranked teams means more "results vs regional ranked"...and more "results vs regionally ranked" is a big advantage.

Seems hard to argue with that point., unless I'm missing something.

[KnightSlappy]

What do you guys think about the East Region? who will get a pool C? Plattsburgh state has put together a decent resume.

There is no requirement that any given region receives a Pool C.  With that said, in the East, Rochester and Stevens will still be ranked ahead of Plattsburgh in the Pool C discussions.  Rochester should get selected rather early, but Stevens is more of a bubble team, so I don't think things are looking good for an 8-loss PS team.

I'm not sure it's a given that Stevens remains ranked ahead of Plattsburgh in the East Region.

Plattsburgh: .731/.559/5-5
Stevens: .800/.533/3-3

It's probably really close.

[Titan Q]

What do you guys think about the East Region? who will get a pool C? Plattsburgh state has put together a decent resume.

There is no requirement that any given region receives a Pool C.  With that said, in the East, Rochester and Stevens will still be ranked ahead of Plattsburgh in the Pool C discussions.  Rochester should get selected rather early, but Stevens is more of a bubble team, so I don't think things are looking good for an 8-loss PS team.

I'm not sure it's a given that Stevens remains ranked ahead of Plattsburgh in the East Region.

Plattsburgh: .731/.559/5-5
Stevens: .800/.533/3-3

It's probably really close.

Agree.  I have Plattsburgh St ahead of Stevens in the final East ranking.  It's close, but I think it's pretty clear.

[sac]

Also, Randolph-Macon getting ranked in the South (which seems like a slam dunk) impacts all kinds of "results vs regionally ranked).  In terms of Pool C...

* give Transylvania 1-0...move to 4-1
* give Hampden-Sydney 2-1...move to 6-3
* give Virginia Wesleyan 0-1...move to 8-4


All kinds of stuff riding on the Randolph-Macon situation.

It would again point out what a huge advantage it is to be in a region where more teams get ranked.  18-9 teams hardly ever get ranked in the Great Lakes, East or Atlantic  Regions.  Terribly unfair if RRO is going to be used as such a high priority criteria.

I don't think anyone is saying it is a higher priority... it is just that RMC has such an unbelievable number and that RMC being ranked will have an affect on those other school's numbers. And further more, we have seen that vRRO has been considered by regional committees for several years as a deciding factor... so a team with 16 games vRROs will probably get some attention. There are five criteria after all that will be weighed...

I think you are missing Scott's main point though - "It would again point out what a huge advantage it is to be in a region where more teams get ranked.  18-9 teams hardly ever get ranked in the Great Lakes, East or Atlantic  Regions."

More ranked teams means more "results vs regional ranked"...and more "results vs regionally ranked" is a big advantage.

Seems hard to argue with that point., unless I'm missing something.

That's exactly the point.

There is virtually nothing a coach can do to assure themselves a high number of RRO games, its luck, fortune and being in a big enough region where 3 or 4 of your conference teams end up ranked.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Also, Randolph-Macon getting ranked in the South (which seems like a slam dunk) impacts all kinds of "results vs regionally ranked).  In terms of Pool C...

* give Transylvania 1-0...move to 4-1
* give Hampden-Sydney 2-1...move to 6-3
* give Virginia Wesleyan 0-1...move to 8-4


All kinds of stuff riding on the Randolph-Macon situation.

It would again point out what a huge advantage it is to be in a region where more teams get ranked.  18-9 teams hardly ever get ranked in the Great Lakes, East or Atlantic  Regions.  Terribly unfair if RRO is going to be used as such a high priority criteria.

I don't think anyone is saying it is a higher priority... it is just that RMC has such an unbelievable number and that RMC being ranked will have an affect on those other school's numbers. And further more, we have seen that vRRO has been considered by regional committees for several years as a deciding factor... so a team with 16 games vRROs will probably get some attention. There are five criteria after all that will be weighed...

I think you are missing Scott's main point though - "It would again point out what a huge advantage it is to be in a region where more teams get ranked.  18-9 teams hardly ever get ranked in the Great Lakes, East or Atlantic  Regions."

More ranked teams means more "results vs regional ranked"...and more "results vs regionally ranked" is a big advantage.

Seems hard to argue with that point., unless I'm missing something.

Understand that point... I just don't know if it is proven necessarily. Sure... more schools with more regional losses have gotten in from regions that have more ranked teams, but I also think there are other factors at play in those scenarios than just the number of vRROs. RMC's SOS is a major factor and honestly I can't remember a time a team had a number that high.

There is certainly an issue of regions being unbalanced and the fact that schools have moved from a region to another because of a conference change in recent years (i.e. Hamilton, Cornell, etc.) has made it worse. Regional Realignment is being done because this is one of the problems (and other sports where there aren't enough regions)... but to compound the problem, presidents rightly or wrongly want all conference teams in the same region - I just don't see this being the solution.

[KnightSlappy]

Average number of regionally ranked games played by region:

SO   4.5
WE   4.4
EA   5.3
MW   3.9
MA   4.9
GL   4.5
NE   4.3
AT   4.5