Pool C

[sac]

Had Randolph Macon not won the ODAC I doubt Randolph gets in the tournament.

This gave Randolph 2 more RRO's(probably)

[smedindy]

I bet that's it. And wow, that's kind of a back-door way into it, isn't it??

[Greek Tragedy]

RNK3	TEAM	CONF.
1	Ramapo	NJAC
2	Old.Westbury	SKY
3	Rutgers.Newark  POOL C	NJAC
4	RicardStockton	NJAC
5	SUNYPurchase	SKY
RNK3	TEAM	CONF.
1	Rochester  POOL C	UAA
2	SUNY.Cortland	SUNYAC
3	Stevens   POOL C	E8
4	Plattsburgh.State  POOL C	SUNYAC
5	Hobart	LL
6	Oswego.State	SUNYAC
	DROPPING OUT
NR	Ithaca	E8
NR	NYU	UAA
NR	SUNY.Geneseo	SUNYAC
RNK3	TEAM	CONF.
1	Wooster  POOL C	NCAC
2	Ohio.Wesleyan	NCAC
3	St.Vincent	PrAC
4	Thomas.More	PrAC
5	Capital	OAC
6	Calvin	MIAA
	DROPPING OUT
NR	Marietta	OAC
RNK3	TEAM	CONF.
1	Alvernia	MACC
2	Catholic	LAND
3	Albright	MACC
4	St.Mary's(Md.)	CAC
5	Wesley  POOL C	CAC
6	Scranton	LAND
7	DeSales	MACF
8	Salisbury	CAC
9	Frank&Marsh	CC
	DROPPING OUT
NR	Cabrini	CSAC
NR	Dickinson	CC
NR	Arcadia	MACC
RNK3	TEAM	CONF.
1	Illinois.Wesleyan    POOL C	CCIW
2	WashingtonU.	UAA
3	Wheaton  POOL C	CCIW
4	North Central.(IL)	CCIW
5	Transylvania  POOL C	HCAC
6	Rose.Hulman	HCAC
7	St.NorbertSt.Norbert	MWC
8	Augustana	CCIW
RNK3	TEAM	CONF.
1	Amherst	NESCAC
2	WPI	NEWMAC
3	Williams POOL C	NESCAC
4	RIC	LEC
5	Middlebury POOL C	NESCAC
6	MIT  POOL C	NEWMAC
7	Springfield  POOL C	NEWMAC
8	Brandeis	UAA
9	Curry	CCC
10	Westfield State	MASCAC
11	East.Conn.State	LEC
12	Tufts	NESCAC
	DROPPING OUT
NR	Albertus.Magnus	GNAC
RNK3	TEAM	CONF.
1	Virginia.Wesleyan POOL C	ODAC
2	Hampden.Sydney  POOL C	ODAC
3	MHB  POOL C	ASC
4	Chris.Newport	USAC
5	Emory  POOL C	UAA
6	Concordia(TX)	ASC
7	Texas.Dallas	ASC
8	Randolph  POOL C	ODAC
	DROPPING OUT
NR	Lynchburg	ODAC
NR	Guilford	ODAC
RNK3	TEAM	CONF.
1	St.Thomas	MIAC
2	Stevens.Point POOL C	WIAC
3	Whitewater	WIAC
4	Whitworth	NWC
5	Buena.Vista	IIAC
6	Stout	WIAC
7	Con.Moorhead	MIAC
8	Augsburg	MIAC
9	Whitman	NWC
	DROPPING OUT
NR	Luther	IIAC

[Hugenerd]

I don't think we're even going to begin to understand Randolph until we hear from the committee.

It just makes no sense.  I would have taken Albright then Brandeis before even considering Randolph.


The only thing I can think is that somehow the final loss dropped Brandeis on the rankings and they weren't even on the table to be considered?

Tufts also lost in their tourney, they would have been the next up.

Yeah, but they lost to Amherst, right?  That looks a lot better than the Brandeis loss to NYU, then given the difference in regional record by that point.  It's possible.  There's no love loss between the NE region and the UAA; no one is cutting them any slack.

Technically both count as losses vs. RRO (once ranked always ranked!).

Or do you think Westfield or East Conn could have jumped them?

[Titan Q]

Outstanding interview on Hoopsville right now with national chair Mike DeWitt.  Check it out on the archive later...really candid conversation.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I don't think we're even going to begin to understand Randolph until we hear from the committee.

It just makes no sense.  I would have taken Albright then Brandeis before even considering Randolph.


The only thing I can think is that somehow the final loss dropped Brandeis on the rankings and they weren't even on the table to be considered?

Tufts also lost in their tourney, they would have been the next up.

Yeah, but they lost to Amherst, right?  That looks a lot better than the Brandeis loss to NYU, then given the difference in regional record by that point.  It's possible.  There's no love loss between the NE region and the UAA; no one is cutting them any slack.

Technically both count as losses vs. RRO (once ranked always ranked!).

Or do you think Westfield or East Conn could have jumped them?

Could be.  I think the committee was giving Brandeis the benefit of the doubt because of their schedule strength, but losing to NYU on the last day of the season is reason enough to give up.  EConn or Tufts could have moved ahead.

[Ethelred the Unready]

I don't think we're even going to begin to understand Randolph until we hear from the committee.

It just makes no sense.  I would have taken Albright then Brandeis before even considering Randolph.


The only thing I can think is that somehow the final loss dropped Brandeis on the rankings and they weren't even on the table to be considered?

Tufts also lost in their tourney, they would have been the next up.

Yeah, but they lost to Amherst, right?  That looks a lot better than the Brandeis loss to NYU, then given the difference in regional record by that point.  It's possible.  There's no love loss between the NE region and the UAA; no one is cutting them any slack.

Technically both count as losses vs. RRO (once ranked always ranked!).

Or do you think Westfield or East Conn could have jumped them?

Could be.  I think the committee was giving Brandeis the benefit of the doubt because of their schedule strength, but losing to NYU on the last day of the season is reason enough to give up.  EConn or Tufts could have moved ahead.

Can't imagine how the Brandeis seniors feel today.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I don't think we're even going to begin to understand Randolph until we hear from the committee.

It just makes no sense.  I would have taken Albright then Brandeis before even considering Randolph.


The only thing I can think is that somehow the final loss dropped Brandeis on the rankings and they weren't even on the table to be considered?

Tufts also lost in their tourney, they would have been the next up.

Yeah, but they lost to Amherst, right?  That looks a lot better than the Brandeis loss to NYU, then given the difference in regional record by that point.  It's possible.  There's no love loss between the NE region and the UAA; no one is cutting them any slack.

Technically both count as losses vs. RRO (once ranked always ranked!).

Or do you think Westfield or East Conn could have jumped them?

Could be.  I think the committee was giving Brandeis the benefit of the doubt because of their schedule strength, but losing to NYU on the last day of the season is reason enough to give up.  EConn or Tufts could have moved ahead.

Can't imagine how the Brandeis seniors feel today.

They lost 8 games.  You can't expect to get into the tournament losing 8 games.  You can hope and I'm sure they're disappointed, but I doubt any of them were counting on getting in.

[Ralph Turner]

Outstanding interview on Hoopsville right now with national chair Mike DeWitt.  Check it out on the archive later...really candid conversation.

YES!

Great transparency!

[Ethelred the Unready]

I don't think we're even going to begin to understand Randolph until we hear from the committee.

It just makes no sense.  I would have taken Albright then Brandeis before even considering Randolph.


The only thing I can think is that somehow the final loss dropped Brandeis on the rankings and they weren't even on the table to be considered?

Tufts also lost in their tourney, they would have been the next up.

Yeah, but they lost to Amherst, right?  That looks a lot better than the Brandeis loss to NYU, then given the difference in regional record by that point.  It's possible.  There's no love loss between the NE region and the UAA; no one is cutting them any slack.

Technically both count as losses vs. RRO (once ranked always ranked!).

Or do you think Westfield or East Conn could have jumped them?

Could be.  I think the committee was giving Brandeis the benefit of the doubt because of their schedule strength, but losing to NYU on the last day of the season is reason enough to give up.  EConn or Tufts could have moved ahead.

Can't imagine how the Brandeis seniors feel today.

They lost 8 games.  You can't expect to get into the tournament losing 8 games.  You can hope and I'm sure they're disappointed, but I doubt any of them were counting on getting in.

Agreed.  I didn't really think they would based on the games they let get away.   Just saying is gotta be tough knowing you let it get away, especially if losing the NYU game did cost them.  Losing 6 of the last 9 must have felt like quicksand.

[Titan Q]

Had Randolph Macon not won the ODAC I doubt Randolph gets in the tournament.

This gave Randolph 2 more RRO's(probably)

By sometime Sunday, I already had Randolph-Macon getting ranked in the South region whether they won or lost in that ODAC final.  They were going to have 7 wins against regionally ranked and 16 games played...even with a loss to Virginia Wesleyan.  I think they were a safe bet for a South spot, ahead of Texas-Dallas, win or lose.  I had actually already added the extra win vs regionally ranked to Transylvania, and the others well before that ODAC game started. 

But you are absolutely right that the extra 1-1 for Randolph was a difference maker.  It might have also gotten Transylvania in.  As Mike DeWitt said on Hoopsville about this, "It didn't hurt."

I can't stress enough how great that interview was with DeWitt.  People who care about this stuff (which is about all of us?) should take the time to listen off the archive.

http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2012-13/feb25 - starts at 2:13:30

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Listening to the Hoopsville replay, I'm wondering if "recent results" is still one of the secondary criteria.

It seems like Rutgers-Newark, Randolph, Brandeis, and Albright were the last four and really the only four in consideration for those final two spots.

The committee clearly went to the secondary criteria.  If the "recent results" is still on that list, it all but dooms Brandeis.

Once that's gone, it makes sense that Albright was left out.  Clearly they had a case, but it's easier to see the rationale.

[ronk]

 Mike Dewitt said 5-5(Randolph) was better than 3-1(Albright) wtr vrro; I don't know any sports standing that doesn't have a higher %(.750 to .500) come before a lower one; the committee is manufacturing that results played is more important than winning %.

[Titan Q]

Mike Dewitt said 5-5(Randolph) was better than 3-1(Albright) wtr vrro; I don't know any sports standing that doesn't have a higher %(.750 to .500) come before a lower one; the committee is manufacturing that results played is more important than winning %.

Couldn't it mean that the number of wins for Randolph (5) trumps Albright's (3)?

But yes, I don't think there is much doubt that total games played vs regionally ranked is a factor too.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

If you look down the line, it wasn't so much winning percentage against regionally ranked opponents, it was wins against those teams.

The only team with less than 3 rro wins to get in was Middlebury, with a huge .800+ wp.

Five wins says a lot.  I still might have gone with Albright over Randolph, but I can see the case.

The one that made little sense to me was Brandeis, but the recent record thing clears that up.

Albright didn't even play as many rro as Randolph won.  You can argue whether that should matter given they lost as many as they won, but it's a defensible position.